pierstoval

pierstoval, 6 hours ago

@herndlm Read the alt 😇

pierstoval, 20 hours ago

@Hariboas @shochdoerfer @heiglandreas @gmazzap @naderman @Schrank

I've seen projects where even the dockerfiles, docker-compose, etc., are in an entirely different repo, and you could run the project in dev with anything (your own docker images, symfony cli, frankenphp, etc.).

However, there is still something about the tests that is very specific:

pierstoval, 20 hours ago

@Hariboas @shochdoerfer @heiglandreas @gmazzap @naderman @Schrank

Do you have a CI? Do you deploy your project to production if the test suite fails, locally or in the CI?

If you do, tests are just information, metadata about the "current estimated safety" of the project.

If you need tests/CI to be green before deploying, this means that your tests ARE a necessary part of your project, same for the testing framework the tests use.

pierstoval, 6 hours ago

@heiglandreas @Hariboas @shochdoerfer @gmazzap @naderman @Schrank

Sure part of the dev chain, indeed, however if you change your deployment systems, the tests won't change. If you change your DBMS, it will. There are different part in your entire project architecture that are all bound together and some of them are harder to replace, and tests are harder to replace anyway, and moreover tests define the expected behavior of your app, so it's definitely part of it.

pierstoval, 6 hours ago

@heiglandreas @Hariboas @shochdoerfer @gmazzap @naderman @Schrank

You seem to have a strong belief that production and development must be separated, could it be code, architecture, or tooling.
However, all of it is part of the project.
That's why we talk about "project" and not "source code": the source code by itself can't do much without the specs, the CI (hopefully), the production infrastructure, etc.
The tooling in this case will definitely be part of the project.

pierstoval, 6 hours ago

@heiglandreas @Hariboas @shochdoerfer @gmazzap @naderman @Schrank

And I'd even say that the IDE is also part of it sometimes: a few years ago I was using IntelliJ (like I do since 2014) and a new coworker was using VSCode. He struggled in defining some testing rules, and whenever he had to execute the tests, he had to do it in CLI only, and it came with a few productivity issues that a properly configured IDE won't face.

(Even though most modern IDEs shouldn't make a difference in that part)