juergen_hubert,
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

If you cannot stop the wrath of a supernatural spirit, then maybe you can at least redirect it to some people you don't care about as much.

#Germany #folktale #folklore #WildHunt @germany @folklore
https://www.patreon.com/posts/eternal-huntress-31971823

luigirenna,

@juergen_hubert @germany @folklore interesting character this Mutter Gauerken, do you have more on her?

greenspindle,

@luigirenna
This Wikipedia article might help a little (edit: take a closer look at the "Variants" part)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frau_Holle

@juergen_hubert @germany @folklore

luigirenna,

@greenspindle @juergen_hubert @germany @folklore that was very interesting! Thank you

KonchogTenzenSangpo,

@luigirenna @greenspindle @juergen_hubert @germany @folklore hailing from Italy? The alpine region, including the nowadays Italian parts, knows a distinct spirit / deity with 'perchta' who is a close relative to Holle/Hel.
According to some highly intriguing theories maybe even the older and original form (Hel is a rather late addition to the Norse pantheon anyway).

juergen_hubert,
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

@KonchogTenzenSangpo @luigirenna @greenspindle @germany @folklore I've translated a rather lengthy text on this entity, called Hulda, who has subordinate spirits called "Salige" or "Blessed Maidens".

luigirenna,

@KonchogTenzenSangpo @greenspindle @juergen_hubert @germany @folklore thank you for the pointer. You reminded me of a South Tyrol folklore book I bought while on holiday there many years ago, I will go and check for this pertcha

juergen_hubert,
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

@luigirenna @KonchogTenzenSangpo @greenspindle @germany @folklore

If you can read German, I can point you to some additional sources (and if you can read only English, I know of one as well).

luigirenna,

@juergen_hubert @KonchogTenzenSangpo @greenspindle @germany @folklore my German is definitely not to a level where I can read academic sources yet, but any pointer welcome

juergen_hubert,
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

@luigirenna @KonchogTenzenSangpo @greenspindle @germany @folklore This links list has a whole bunch of folk tale collections from Tyrol (North and South). Alas, many of these are in Fraktur typeset, which take some time getting used to:

https://de.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Sagen#Tirol

juergen_hubert,
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

@luigirenna @KonchogTenzenSangpo @greenspindle @germany @folklore

Here is also the single English-language folk tale collection about Tyrol which I could find:

https://archive.org/details/cu31924029914839

juergen_hubert,
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

@luigirenna @KonchogTenzenSangpo @greenspindle @germany @folklore

A few years ago, I spent some time trying to find folk tale collections in the public domain. If you know of any additional ones about Italy, please add them!

(Also, if you know of any Italian-language folk tale collections in the public domain, then I am interested in those as well. They might make for good reading material a few years down the road...)

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Portal:Folk_literature

luigirenna,

@juergen_hubert @KonchogTenzenSangpo @greenspindle @germany @folklore not in the public domain yet, but Italo Calvino's collection of Italian Folktales from 1956 is my go-to. He was inspired by a similar effort by Gianfrancesco Straparola in the 1500s, and that one should definitely be in the public domain

juergen_hubert,
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

@luigirenna @KonchogTenzenSangpo @greenspindle @germany @folklore I do have a book which seems to be a volume from Calvino's collection to start with.

I am a bit curious about the fact that there seem to be a number of English-language collections of Italian folk tales that precede Calvino. Were they translations of existing collections, or did the authors collect the tales themselves and then immediately translate them? I need to investigate this further...

luigirenna,
KonchogTenzenSangpo,

@luigirenna @juergen_hubert @greenspindle @germany @folklore Italian lore - as is Spanish - still carries pre-Roman elements, including hints of ritual possession.
Oh, I guess you are familiar with the 'Benadanti'? I think most of Ginzburg's books were translated into Italian language (or even originally published, IIRC he was fluent).

juergen_hubert,
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

@KonchogTenzenSangpo @luigirenna @greenspindle @germany @folklore Yeah, thanks to a Kenneth Hite essay on the topic.

Ironically, in northeastern German folklore, children born with a caul have a less happy fate - they are doomed to return as revenants after death who kill everyone in the area unless precautions are taken.

KonchogTenzenSangpo,

@juergen_hubert @luigirenna @greenspindle @germany @folklore ah yes - quite funny how these portents and signs often are understood as an opposite, depending on the cultural realm

juergen_hubert,
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

@luigirenna @germany @folklore Well, there's a small myth complex on Mutter Gauerken/Frau Gauden/Frau Gaur etc. in Mecklenburg. She is effectively the local leader of the Wild Hunt, possibly intermixed with some Hulda/Holle elements.

KonchogTenzenSangpo,

@juergen_hubert @luigirenna @germany @folklore in that specific region - do you recognize syncretism with Slavic elements? I am verily amazed by the richness of the Baltic mythologies and how they also inspired storyweavers like O. Preussler, but it seems to me from the books & papers I am aware of that Gernanic & Slavic are still treated as being very distinct (funny, considering for example the origin Bajuvarian tribes ^^)

juergen_hubert,
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

@KonchogTenzenSangpo @luigirenna @germany @folklore I haven't researched Slavic folklore much yet, which is definitely something I want to rectify. But it would not surprise me - I've already noticed some overlap between German and Slavic folklore regarding "fern flowers". And, of course, "vampire"-type stories are most common in Eastern Germany.

TedT,

@juergen_hubert @luigirenna @germany @folklore that’s interesting in the Swiss folklore I have stumbled thru and upon the wild hunt is Oden’s if it’s any named one who leads it.

juergen_hubert, (edited )
@juergen_hubert@thefolklore.cafe avatar

@TedT @luigirenna @germany @folklore Just like the Joker, the Leader of the Wild Hunt has multiple-choice origin stories.

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