Why are neurotypicals in charge of making up the social rules? They're not even very good at it.

Edit: A few people have interpreted the title as serious, so I wanna clarify that it was meant as a sarcastic joke about how little sense the neurotypical world makes to me, but it is still legitimately me asking for help understanding said neurotypical world.

Was having a conversation with a friend today about why I seem unapproachable to people online. Apparently it’s for 2 reasons.

One is that I say “K.” all the time, as a short way of saying okay. She pointed out that most people find this rude and offensive. This kinda baffled me, because like why? She explained that like, if somebody were to give a long emotional speech and I just responded “K.” that would be offensive. That confounds me. So it’s rude in one context, and neurotypicals have decided to be offended by it in all contexts? But the reason it’s rude is what confuses me more. Apparently it’s considered lazy because you could have just typed out the word, but like, that applies to all text speech and nobody’s mad about people shortening those words.

But it got more confusing when she explained the second reason, which is that I end all of my sentences with proper punctuation, which she said “makes people feel like I’m done with the conversation and not interested.” But just a second ago improper grammar was rude, and now proper grammar is rude instead.

It baffles me. You can’t just use proper or improper grammar. Use too much improper grammar and you’re lazy and rude. Use too little and you’re also rude. But you can’t just use any improper grammar, you have to use the very specific subset of improper grammar that’s been deemed acceptable and not lazy (even though it’s exactly as lazy as what they do consider lazy.)

To be clear, I’m not bitter, and I’m definitely gonna adjust my behavior to hopefully seem a little less rude to people. I think that’s just a nice thing to do. I just find the neurotypical mind utterly fascinating. I don’t think they even realize how many contradictions exist in the social rules they all so easily accept.

Glowstick, (edited )

Your friend is at least partially misinforming you. It’s fine to write k instead of ok in almost all situations. But either of them can be rude if the other person would expect more emotive words. For example here’s when k is fine:

Them: Bring my pen when you come into the other room

You: k

And here’s where k is not fine:

Them: Wanna go grab some drinks tonight at 8?

You: k

That’s rude. They would want to hear you actually be interested in their invitation. Like saying “great” or “I’m in” or whatever.

Sombyr,

…Ooooh. I think that’s what she was trying to tell me actually and I just completely misunderstood. That second example is a type of situation I used it a lot in. I didn’t realize people needed to know how interested I was. I thought they just needed a quick confirmation.

Glowstick,

Yay, glad I could help! Yeah essentially if they’re asking something that might have an emotional aspect to it then they want to hear more than just k.

noobdoomguy8658,
noobdoomguy8658 avatar

Neurotypical here, and the comment you're replying to is just right. Not to be rude, but your friend didn't do a good job explaining this stuff to you. Maybe they don't know how to properly articulate that.

Proper grammar is way less important than proper punctuation in the content of INSTANT MESSAGING. It's a matter of tradition, a certain style that came to be before a huge amount of such conversations were held over a computer keyboard without any autocompletion, as opposed to modern smartphone keyboards that correct a lot of your writing. So, back in the day, people basically used to type lazy, shortened messages to each other, akin to SMS (which was like that because the phone keyboards back then weren't all that great for long-form texts, and many tariffs charged you per character), and since that was the domain of personal conversations, this kind of style (little to no punctuation, same with capitalisation, short forms and abbreviations) is associated with informal, laid back tone.

This is fine when the context is informal and laid back, too. As your friend noted, there's many situations where people message you and feel excited or vulnerable, so they kind of expect to see... effort, I guess? I'm saying effort because you can show effort and interest with bad grammar and no punctuation - you can use words and phrases to signal your empathy and compassion or whatever they're seeking at the moment; this here is the reason why some people may see plain "K." as offensive - traditionally, it's an effort-saving way to agree with/to something, and it makes people feel like you just don't care. The comma at the end has absolutely nothing to do with it.

As for proper grammar and punctuation, it's just a stark opposite of the laid back style I described earlier, it's associated with formal speech, business, bad news, something serious in a way, etc. People don't have beef with that at all. Well, some may belive you're trying to show off your writing skills, but those are not the typical bunch even among us.

Hope it helps, even though that's a lot of text!

sab,
sab avatar

Often people are looking for some sort of validation, even when it's not obvious.

If they say "I can't join you in the bar today, I have too much work to catch up on", "K." is not a good answer. Several aspects needs to be addressed, ideally:

  1. That's too bad
  2. Next time
  3. Commentary on the state of work: Keep your head above water/your boss is such a jerk/we'll make up for it after your deadline on Thursday/whatever, depending on the situation and your relationship.

Basically, it's a way to show that you care about what they're telling you. It can be a bit exhausting at times.

Sombyr,

This is really helpful. I didn’t realize there were so many situations people were looking for validation. I just assumed when they said something like that it was just to quickly let me know and “K.” was all they needed.

neatchee,

To expand on this, consider that others cannot know what you’re thinking without you telling them.

You might feel “I’m looking forward to that and I think we will have fun together.”

But if you don’t tell someone that, they are left to guess for themselves. That uncertainty is very uncomfortable.

Neurotypicals learned to give and use clues to help navigate life and determine if they need to change their actions. But it’s a complicated balance. Most people don’t like being told “I’m not interested in that.” They’d rather hear “no thank you, maybe some other time.” But they’d also much rather hear “that sounds like fun!” than hearing “yeah sure”.

It can be very difficult to imagine what it’s like to have a different set of information than what you yourself know. Practice this skill! It will help you in lots of situations. Do your best to reduce uncertainty while considering how it might feel to hear the new information you’re sharing for the first time.

Good luck out there! <3

Sombyr,

Ah, I think the hangup for me wasn’t so much not understanding that they had different info than me, but that they wanted the info I had. Moreover, that they might feel differently about things than I did, and they knew that, so I needed to make sure they knew how I felt.
When I see somebody just respond “K.” or “Alright” to an invitation to do something, that always made me happy enough to know that they were gonna be there because I figured if they didn’t want to, they’d have found an excuse to say no. I didn’t suspect that others might not just assume somebody was happy to be there the way I did. It’s helpful to know I need to clear up how I feel in some way for them to understand that I want to be there and enjoy their company.

Glowstick,

People can agree to go to an event but have very different feelings about doing it. Some people will be extremely stoked about going, some will be happy about it, some will be like meh its better than sitting at home, some people won’t want to go but decide to anyway because they want to be nice, some may really not want to go but decide to go anyway out of a sense of obligation. The particular words you reply with express your interest level to some degree. A plain “k” will be interpreted as a meh at best.

Sombyr,

I see. I always just determined that by their reactions once they showed up, and figured all that mattered until then was whether they had any desire to at all, which was usually conveyed easily with single word responses. I didn’t realize other people wanted to know your feelings beforehand.

Glowstick,

Ideally people want to have a general sense of how you’re feeling at all times. Not like in a disruptive way of always making announcements, but through things like the particular words you choose and facial expressions and body language etc.

Sombyr,

I can definitely adjust my words to express how I’m feeling better more often. The facial expressions and body language though I’m probably incapable of unfortunately on account of me actually having two separate disorders that make me unable to show physical expressions of emotion. Way back in middle school I was put in a special class to teach me both of those and I couldn’t even figure out how to trigger the muscles in my face to actually make any expressions, nor was I even capable of recognizing the body language I was supposed to be mimicking even when it was described to me.

Glowstick,

Huh, I’ve never heard of that. It must make things extra hard for you. What’s the name of that disorder?

Sombyr,

The disorder is schizoaffective, but the inability to express emotions isn’t usually a big feature of it. It comes with psychosis. Usually, antipsychotics are all it takes to trigger your brain to start expressing emotions again, but I can’t take a high enough dose to do that without serious side effects, so I instead deal with minor psychosis symptoms, like having to remind myself constantly that no, the order of my songs when I hit shuffle is not a secret message telling me the future, and also the fact that I can’t express any physical emotions unless they’re very strong. It also shows in my tone of voice, which is a consistent, flat, unchanging tone that I try to vary randomly just so people don’t tune out my voice.

Glowstick,

That sounds hard. But it seems like you’ve got a good understanding of yourself, and that’s huge! It’s clear that you’ve put a ton of work into all this and have achieved real accomplishments. I give you a massive virtual high five!!!

Kichae, (edited )

To make things more confusing, responding to an invitation to drinks with “k!” might be ok, depending on who’s asking and the context.

If it’s your roommate asking, and they’re doing it because there’s a sporting event or because drinks are an established ritual, it’d be fine. If it’s your boss, or a new (potential) friend or colleague, a possible romantic interest, or a close friend and it’s not something they usually do or invite you out for, then those situations have a lot more weight, and expect a more fulsome and engaged reply.

Emmie, (edited )

There are no official rules, we NT just kinda feel it, like a sixth sense and so because we are the majority and we share this ability no one is even aware of it consciously. How can you describe a sight to a blind person? It’s difficult at best and impossible at worst. It’s like an instinct. We can describe it logically but it will always be imperfect and not feasible at times

moitoi,
@moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I hope I won’t be too long on the topic. This is an historical question.

Why it’s like this, why are NTs deciding for us? It began in the Renaissance period with René Descartes. He was a philosophe and saw the human body as a machine. He wrote about this vision of the human. Each organ, muscle, bones are a piece of the machine. He did a direct comparison between the human and the material.

Later in the first half of the 19th century, an astronomer, and statistician had the idea to use statistics for human. Prior, statistic were in majority an instrument used for astronomy. Adolphe Quételet studied Scottish soldiers to make statistics of the human. He went further and did not only statistics on the body. He did statistics about injuries, body, and a lot more. With all of this, Quételet invented the average person. Without statistics, you can’t have an average person. This idea is important for the following. It’s also the key idea at the beginning of eugenic.

Someone was very interested in this topic. At the point, he coined the word “eugenic” itself. Francis Galton was the half-cousin of Charles Darwin. He came from a wealthy family and really like the work of his half-cousin on evolution. But, Galton wanted to apply it to society. He was also inspired by the concept of the average person of Quételet. Galton diverges of both of his predecessors. For Galton, the average person was not the person in the middle. No, it was the person at the bottom. There is a shift down compared to Quételet.

The poorer, the people without education, disabled, slaves, race shouldn’t be considered with Galton. There were just this average for the one able to work and earn what they need to survive. The others were not even at the bottom of the social ladder.

People with education, wealthy people, were of course at the top of this ladder. Galton also believed in birth control based on the assumption of the categorization of the human. Wealthy should reproduce as their genetic was better.

On this base, Galton developed a lot of theories that we still use nowadays, and in particular in psychology and psychiatry. But, his ideas in pathology survived.

More general, some of his ideas and theories are still around. Eugenic was very popular at the beginning of the 20th century – Galton began his work at the second half of the 19th century. People founded during this time eugenic society, university cursus, etc.

With WWII, eugenic fall in disgrace. People working in the field made a shift in their career. They went to psychology, psychiatry, philosophy, sociology, anthropology…

In the 50s and later in the 60s and 70s, a new movement emerged with anti-psychiatry. In this ideology, you will find many points of view. They had and have in common that we should not intern people that aren’t the average person, in other words the norm. Yes, the average person of Galton became a norm. If people are disabled, they don’t produce anything and aren’t included in the norm. They interned these unproductive people. Some went against it.

But, in one side of anti-psychiatry, you had people who think that people with psyachiatric issues were faking it. The idea is that people are lazy and invented their illness, condition, difference to do nothing. These people in anti-psychiatry wanted to close the asylums, so people will have to work. Spoiler alert: It didn’t work, and people ended on the street or in jail.

But, all these people thinking people were lazy were in the normal at least. This scheme continued to today, and we end with NTs in charge of deciding…

I can only recommend the read of the book “Empire of Normality; Neurodiversity and Capitalism”, by Robert Chapman.

InternetPerson,

As far as I know, I am neurotypical, so mind that when reading my comment.

Regarding the title of your question:
Because neurotypicals are the majority of people. As usual, majorities set norms and actively or passively decide upon common concepts like ethical or societal rules.

Regarding the issue you described:
Even though it might seem exhausting, I think it’s important to see people – regardless whether neurotypical or not – not as a homogeneous mass but as a highly variable mixture.

Sure, even then there are common rules like don’t punch people. But those are the broad and general ground rules.

Then, there are the nuances, which can be highly individual.

In your example, regarding the punctuation, use of grammar as well as verbosity of replies, I would react completely different than your friend. I wouldn’t mind any of those things, which seemed rude to her. Okay, maybe I would feel like I weren’t given the attention I hoped for if, after pouring my heart out, I just get a simple “K.” as response. That would make me sad, because I was hoping for compassion and a dialouge dealing with the issue.
But apart from such things, that would probably be totally fine for me.

One behaviour and two very different reactions due to two different people.
As such nuances are often individual, it’s probably best to explore what kind of behaviour the other person would feel comfortable with and with which behaviour they don’t. Repeat that process with everyone in your life, who you would also like to keep relations to.

That’s also related to a thing known as role-behaviour in psychology, which also applies to neurotypicals. When I talk to my superior at work, I behave differently than when I am at home with my wife. Then, I also behave differently with my friends. And among the friends, I learned enough about some, to know what and how I can say something to them and from which topics or phrasings it’s probably best to steer away.

Sombyr,

That’s good advice, but it’s also worth noting that my initial strategy was to try to hold of on saying anything at all that could be offensive until I learned what’s okay and what’s not, but that too ended up offending some people. The reason being that I would get close to people, but they would get closer to me faster than I was getting closer to them due to me still being overly cautious and trying to find the proper things I was allowed to say and do with them. That’s partially what this is about. Trying to find the starting line so I know what’s not gonna drive people away immediately.
For instance, while it’s true a lot of people won’t be offended by “K.” or proper punctuation, I feel like in most casual contexts, people are much less likely to be offended if I don’t do those things, which gives me time to get closer to people and learn more instead of driving a sizable portion away right off the bat.
Another piece of advice this friend gave me was to ask more questions. I always knew that was a good thing to do, but I was always worried people would see me as nosy if I asked the wrong ones. I learned from her that people are generally more happy by me showing interest than they’d be upset by me accidentally asking something personal.
That and the advice I’ve gotten in this thread has been really helpful so far. Already people are being a lot friendlier toward me, although it’s gonna take a bit to change the general public opinion of me.

randomsnark,

You already have a bunch of discussion on how “k” can seem dismissive as it’s the lowest effort affirmative reply possible, but I’d add that “K.” can seem worse, because it’s the same message with more effort - if everyone has understood/assumed that “k” is the lowest effort/energy communication, capitalizing and punctuating it indicates that you do have the extra energy, you just choose to spend that energy on emphasizing the dismissive response, rather than on using a different one. It has the same connotations, but more emphatically and more intentionally (or, that’s how it comes across).

I also think in general taking the effort to use correct punctuation and grammar seems more formal, less natural, and hence more emotionally distant. It can also seem more emphatic or assertive, like by using more correct grammar/punctuation than everyone else, you’re positioning yourself as generally more “correct” than they are. The combination of emotional distance and implicit high ground can come across as a bit hostile, or at least standoffish.

The reverse could also be true - if you were in a culture or context where everyone else was using correct grammar and punctuation and you weren’t, it could come across as implying that they’re not worth caring about. For example, in work communications, or maybe when talking to members of an older generation or people from a country that uses more formal language.

In general, probably the smoothest approach would be to observe how others in a given circle communicate, and try to match their level of formality. I guess this is basically masking. If you’d rather not change how you communicate to fit in, you could explicitly discuss this with people - essentially say, “hey, I’m aware that my natural style is different from yours, and I want to be clear that this isn’t indicative of my emotional state, or attitude to you, or any intended tone, this is just my natural baseline”.

At the end of the day the options will always be a) mask, b) be awkwardly explicit, or c) get used to being misunderstood.

… this was really meant to be a quick addition about the difference between “k” and “K.” but sometimes my comments turn into essays for no good reason. Hope something in here was useful anyway.

hanrahan,
@hanrahan@slrpnk.net avatar

K

rottingleaf,

They are not in charge. It’s just that autistic people sometimes take non-critically not even what they are told, but the situation and the emotion as something normal, because that other person is more social and knows how it is.

The rules are different for every tone, discourse, context, etc. Adjusting for one of them won’t do much good even.

You won’t ever lift the weight of adjusting yourself for such expectations well enough. Putting more trust in your own perception of what’s rude and what isn’t is the only way to deal with it.

I mean, probably a therapist would say that. Still ask your therapist and not Lemmy.

Sombyr,

I mean, probably a therapist would say that. Still ask your therapist and not Lemmy.

The funny part is I asked here specifically because I was directed to by a psychiatrist. They thought the best people to ask would be other people with autism who’ve already learned better how to interact because they’ll understand what I need to hear better.
She also told me to consult the friend mentioned in my post, which is how that conversation started.
The reason I’m trying so hard to understand is because I keep having mental health crises over my inability to communicate and the fact that I have a habit of making people really mad and not knowing why or what I did to cause it. Being not only an outcast but having everyone hate me and not just imagining that is very stressful.
Trusting myself to know what’s rude doesn’t work. I piss people off extremely easily and don’t even notice I did until they’re refusing to speak to me.

rottingleaf,

I have the same problem.

When a conflict arises, just tell them what you think about it and that they are assholes both for deciding to be offended without asking you and for thinking that their idea of being nice is the only right one. Be more aggressive and open about what you think both when behaving like you do and when evaluating their response and opinions on that. And don’t ask, beg or otherwise put yourself in a dependent\lower position.

Some of those people will get pissed off even more, because they were consciously abusing this, to be honest. Like with bullying at school, liking it that you’re “wrong” and they are “normal”. And if you feel yourself cut off, that succeeded and they are fine with it, and if you don’t, they really won’t like it. Expect mischief and cowardly shit behind your back from such.

But some will understand you better and won’t make that mistake further. Well, after a few such aggressive actions, because it’s not easy to understand immediately. These are much more numerous than you’d think.

Never try to track your own reactions, “mistakes” and correct for those. You’ll get overloaded with depressive thoughts and indecisiveness.

Those people are smart enough to understand what is what. Some of them will if given better context, which I called aggressive. And some of them are consciously attacking you because they can.

Sombyr,

As far as I understand, people generally assume I’m being rude and dismissive, but they don’t tell me that, they just kinda stop talking. Then they go and ask my friend why I’m like that, where she explains to them that I’m not being rude, I just have difficulty communicating, at which point they usually accept that, but still don’t talk to me much because I’m just too difficult to get close to. Or at least they think I am, because they don’t realize I’m enjoying their company because I don’t express it, because I just assume they’d know because I’m paying attention to them.
That’s what I’m working on. Showing people that I’m genuinely enjoying their company, that when they ask me questions I’m happy to answer, and so on. So it’s not so much a problem of people not being willing to adapt to me, but the fact that they as much as me don’t know how to adapt, so I need to meet them in the middle.

rottingleaf,

but the fact that they as much as me don’t know how to adapt, so I need to meet them in the middle.

That may be true, but many times you’ll find out that the other side considers only meeting at their side the polite behavior. Because they’re “normal”.

Because it’s not that hard to meet in the middle, just remembering that people are different does that.

Sombyr,

I’m aware, and thanks for the advice. I’ve experienced a little of this already since I’ve been applying the advice I’ve gotten here. Luckily, so far, most have been willing to put some effort in now that I’ve shown I’m willing to as well. It’s easy enough to just not talk to the people who won’t, because they’re already not trying.

h3mlocke,

Saying “k” probably seems dismissive to most people

PM_Your_Nudes_Please,

Yup. It’s saying “I’m acknowledging that I heard what you said, but only giving the bare minimum effort in responding.” It could also potentially sound sarcastic and/or condescending, depending on the tone.

It basically comes off like this thumbs up meme:
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/15579d87-df89-4d12-abac-38dd076f793d.jpeg

oracleunity,

Did you do teenager k, work k, or spouse k?

Sombyr,

I’m not sure, but I’ve asked people and I’m told by my friends that before they knew me better, they thought I was either being passive aggressive, or maybe I was going through something and was being rude by accident (the friend I mentioned said a lot of people were asking her if I was okay, because apparently I came across like I was upset about something.)
I’m guessing that’d be the “spouse k” then since I think that’s the one that often implies “okay, but not really okay.”

r3df0x,

No one is specifically in charge of social rules. There are reasons why things are the way they are, and it seems common that geeks and people who have often operated outside of this system think that they can intentionally defy the social rules without consequence if they understand the reason for it and think they can compensate.

This sort of “social hacking” doesn’t work because geeks don’t fully comprehend all the reasons why things are the way they are and it ultimately blows up in their face.

meep_launcher, (edited )

I agree with so many folks on this thread- your friend is pushing one set of social queues that they abide by, but that isn’t everyone.

I think this has more to do with communication over text, as there are NO physical cues to help gauge tone. I’m not autistic, however when texting I’ve learned to practice mirroring for each person I chat with. If I notice they end their sentences without punctuation, I’ll adopt that. If I notice more emojis, I’ll have fun with that, or hold off if it seems that they don’t use them.

A big one for me is using “!”. I usually will use “!” to signal excitement/ friendly tone, however I’ve learned some people see it as an angry tone and thought I was freaking out about what they said.

When I talked to my therapist, he noted with his clients that 90% of disputes start over social media/ texting. I almost lost a friend when they sent me a lecture from a professor talking about the Israeli/ Palestine conflict. A few days later I saw a funny music composition video titled “old MacDonald had a lobotomy”. I thought I was just sending a funny video, but she thought it was in response to her video, and I got a stern text that I had to clear up.

notjustlurking,

Cue(s) not queue(s). One is a hint or indicator, and the other is an organized line. A social cue. Solid points as well.

meep_launcher,

Haha I mean a line of people might help the situation but I dunno! Thanks for the correction

Sombyr,

I agree after reading the rest of the thread, but I think that may also have partially been her intention. I hang out primarily with the same group she does, so she’s trying to help me get along with that particular group. Even so, her tips could help me come off as less robotic in general, even if they’re not strict rules that need to be followed, so I think I’m gonna still try to take her tips and just adapt them to myself.
Definitely gonna stop saying “K.” though. I don’t have the skill to be nuanced enough to not use it improperly. Additionally, I always assumed people just wouldn’t try to gauge my tone over text if I didn’t specify it, but I guess unlike me it’s important to neurotypicals to understand how each other feel, even if they have to assume, so I’ll just have to cut down on the assumptions they have to make.

meep_launcher,

Very fair! Also I’m learning it’s fine to stomp on the eggshells and send a text saying “so hey, here’s what I mean when I say K” or something like that so the people you chat with are on the same page. It seems awkward, but also could be a way to avoid even more awkward situations later.

Juice,

I can relate. I often say “sure” as an affirmative. To me it sounds nice. People always think I’m being sarcastic. I mean, I am often sarcastic but not in the mean or mocking way that people take this.

“Would you like to do go to the concert with me?”
“Sure!”
crying “why don’t you want to go to the concert with me???”

TheSambassador,

“Sure” to me is fairly neutral, emotionally. If someone invites you to something, usually they’re hoping that you will be excited to go, not just willing to go. If you respond with a neutral-sounding “yes” instead of something more enthusiastic, it makes me wonder if you actually want to go.

Overall, your tone of voice when saying “sure” could communicate that enthusiasm to go, but that doesn’t really work over text, so I usually try to be a lot more enthusiastic over text communication.

deweydecibel,

Use too much improper grammar and you’re lazy and rude. Use too little and you’re also rude.

Genuinely not sure what you mean by this.

It’s rude to use “too little” improper grammar?

Where are you getting that from?

But to your main point:

Why are neurotypicals in charge of making up the social rules?

Why are you under the assumption that the social rules are something they all got together and agreed upon?

Social rules form over time in cultures, based on the interactions of individuals. It’s part of the social zeitgeist. Neurotypical people make up the majority, they do the most social interaction, so the overall “rules” are formed by them.

Sombyr,

As far as the first thing goes, I used to avoid using any text speech at all, only used proper punctuation, always made sure my grammar was right. People started to get really annoyed with me because of it, telling me I was being overly formal.
As far as the second thing goes, that was a sarcastic joke about how the “rules” I’m told to follow are always full of contradictions, making them hard to follow. The joke being if autistics made the rules they’d be actual rules, and efficient ones. I’m well aware of why it’s not actually that way.

Kacarott,

I’m not sure how helpful this will be, but I think it is misleading for you to think of these things as “rules”. Calling them rules implies that people know what they are, and try to abide by them. But I don’t think thats whats happening.

Since written communication conveys so much less emotion than verbal communication, people tend to read more into the textual form to infer things like emotion or intent. There aren’t specific rules for this, people just pick up on patterns. For example angry or excited people tend to use capitals to “sound louder”. People talking casually tend to leave out some grammar. Friendly conversations tend to have more long rambling sentences, as opposed to someone trying to prove a point with concise, well punctuated sentences.

So I think what NTs are doing is just subconsciously figuring out these patterns to determine a likely emotion/intent behind messages.

To me, “K” isn’t rude for the reasons your friend tried to list, but it does sound “colder” to me, probably because my brain sees a pattern where the people who are not interested in talking to me will tend to use short succinct responses, while people happy to talk will use longer form.

But a huge part of communication, especially online, is just getting used to the people you talk to. It’s happened many times that someone who seemed grumpy to me at first turned out to be very friendly, etc.

TotalFat,

Stop trying to be like them. They’ll never truly accept you. Many of them would prefer to destroy you. Their methods of communication are inefficient.

Fuck the NTs.

Sombyr,

No.

TotalFat,

Apologies for my post and respect for your appropriate response. Someone pissed in my Cheerios this morning.

Your post title grabbed my attention because I recently started watching Survivor for the first time (social event not really my pick). Anyway it’s fascinating to watch their behavior. These people are constantly talking about “reading” people. They’re always trying to inject meaning and intent where there is none. They are not as smart as they think they are, and they struggle with communication just as much as we do.

One thing I’ve noticed is NTs are constantly lying to each other then trying to “read between the lines.” Not so much malicious intent as keeping your cards close to your chest sort of thing. When someone comes up and just says what they mean, their minds explode. Many of them read into what you’re saying the worst possible interpretation. I’m still trying to figure this out.

I’ve seen a similar thing in court, where you think you’re trying to document facts and distill away all the emotion and speculation. WRONG! It seems to work like Survivor where 1 + 1 = 3.

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