Paging Mr. Manager

isles, 1 month ago

We just say manager.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ad3d2d34-acbd-4a9d-964c-c54b005a85f8.gif

A_N_O_N, 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

Everything to fight trolls in the ways like email requirements is gonna hurt genuine users more and just cause mild inconvenience to spam bots and trolls as temp mails are quite easy to ise and only genuine users are not gonna want to attach a temp mail to their acc . But yeah maybe a form filling like on .ml and that would weed out people like “jewkiller” etc. and would work better overall imo.

Edit : sigh Let me guess the downvotes because i’m using a new acc ? Well lemmings that is how it works everyone starts somewhere and doesn’t spawn out of thin air with a year old acc yes you too had a new acc once . For what’s worth you can check my history and see I in fact am not a troll just stop being paranoid as hell all the time .

umntu_akabethwa_kokwabo, 1 month ago

I don't think the "justify why you want to join" thing is a bad idea at all as long as the form is clearly marked

Anticorp, 2 months ago

I gotta respect the honesty of the guy who named his new account banEVADING.

poVoq, 2 months ago

@mrmanager tagging users in the top post doesn’t work. Only in comments.

mrmanager, 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

Yeah I didnt see this until now. Thanks!

There has been a huge wave of spam accounts recently, and I recognize some of the names on this list. Of course these accounts gets banned quickly.

Getting a fake email address is really easy, so I don’t think it makes any difference whatsoever. On fastmail which im using, I can even create fake ones with a click on a button. It’s built into the service to have different emails for different sites.

Having closed signups will not stop any spam accounts. It just adds a delay between registration and being able to log in. There is no way to know if it’s a spam account or not before they sign in. Of course, some of the names in the list makes it obvious, but they just change to ordinary sounding names then.

I think it’s frustrating for new users to have to wait for a random time period to get accepted, specially when it serves no purpose. I’m not going to be any wiser if I approve the registration now or 12 hours later.

Or am I wrong? I haven’t been a troll myself but seems like I would just spend 30 mins to make accounts in random instances and then fire off my bot a few hours later or on the day after.

How do you know which accounts are spam accounts before they even started posting?

If the spammers and trolls manage to make you defederate from Lemmy.today, they will pick another instance. And every defederation will continue to make the fediverse smaller and more centralized. Sooner or later, small instances may even stop accepting new users for fear of being defederated from the larger network.

I would like to stop having these spam accounts and trolls on the instance. I could add email verification but it won’t make a difference and just make it more annoying for new users. I really don’t want to punish them for what trolls and spammers are doing.

But sure, I prefer it to defederation. So if you think it makes a difference, I could add it just as a sign of good faith. But it’s really a pointless gesture.

poVoq, 2 months ago

Admin approval with some text that needs a little bit of thought to fill out is surprisingly effective and definitely slows down spammers a lot.

Sure, it will not totally prevent it and they can move to another instance, but if all the nicer instances enable it, it becomes much easier to defederate the badly run ones that don’t.

mrmanager, 2 months ago

Thank you, it does make sense. We will enable it tomorrow. This thread changed my mind. :)

ptz, 2 months ago

Greatly appreciated! :)

Feel free to join us in the Matrix channel where we keep each other apprised of spammers and trolls and other problems. You show up as a member already, but we never see you in there. That’s how we catch so many of these so fast.

mrmanager, 2 months ago

I’ve been there a few times, but will log in more and catch up. :)

ChunkMcHorkle, 2 months ago

Admin approval with some text that needs a little bit of thought to fill out is surprisingly effective and definitely slows down spammers a lot.

I had to do that on dbzer0 and I think beehaw, they were both a fun exercise and took no time at all. Hell, I ended up submitting a wall of text about Sacco and Vanzetti on dbzer0 if I remember correctly, lol. But if nothing else they knew that it was 1) a human, and 2) I really believe what I was saying.

If the point is to get regular users who are thoughtful participants in online communities, requiring an email address and the typing of a few coherent words on their own behalf is NOT a barrier to entry, or even a much of a bar. After all, these people are applying to join a forum in which they are presumably going to spend unlimited time typing statements of their own creation in the future. Instance owners are just requiring a bit of that up front, and it’s not a huge ask.

It is, however, a very frustrating requirement for people who want to open multiple accounts for spamming and trolling purposes, and for that reason alone is a great filter for applicants.

GregorGizeh, 2 months ago

As someone who went through the application system to join my instance, it is really not that bad. Just have your potential users write a few sentences on their lemmy history, why they want to join your instance and what content they are looking for.

This can be answered in a few minutes, but it is already enough to discourage almost all bad faith applicants. The few hours of wait period while you check their application for copy pasting are also contributing to deter them, simply because spam users often want to do some mischief right now, waiting until tomorrow doesn’t work well for those impulses.

mrmanager, 2 months ago

In all for trying it. Will enable it tomorrow then. Thanks!

GregorGizeh, 2 months ago

You’re welcome, and good luck! Hope it works out

ptz, 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

Thanks for responding.

Of course these accounts gets banned quickly.

You only temporarily ban them from what I’ve seen in the modlog. You may not know this (I didn’t until recently), but a home-instance temp ban will override a remote instance perma ban (there’s a PR in the works to fix this , but it’s the way things are currently). And when someone has a username like https://lemmy.today/u/JewKiller64g, I really don’t think they’re going to suddenly change their ways in 30 days and come back after a temp ban a better person.

Getting a fake email address is really easy, so I don’t think it makes any difference whatsoever. On fastmail which im using, I can even create fake ones with a click on a button. It’s built into the service to have different emails for different sites.

It adds at least an extra step they’ll have to go through if they’re spinning up a new account to evade a ban. The one in question has admitted they’ll just keep spinning up new accounts because it’s easy. Adding a slight inconvenience won’t stop everyone, but it would at least help prevent becoming a base camp for trolls.

I think it’s frustrating for new users to have to wait for a random time period to get accepted, specially when it serves no purpose. I’m not going to be any wiser if I approve the registration now or 12 hours later.

That’s also 12 hours where your instance can spin up accounts with no one able to do anything about them and everyone else has to deal with that.

How do you know which accounts are spam accounts before they even started posting?

You don’t, but at least with some form of barrier they’re not free to go crazy with no oversight. It also allows you to weed out obvious trolls like half the usernames listed in the post above.

If the spammers and trolls manage to make you defederate from Lemmy.today, they will pick another instance.

You’re not wrong there, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it. Right now, they’re targeting yours because there’s no barrier to entry whatsoever. Defed is not something done on a whim, and I’m responding to your comment which means I haven’t taken that step. Yet.

Sooner or later, small instances may even stop accepting new users for fear of being defederated from the larger network.

Not as long as the admin is responsive and takes measures to address the problems. Defederation is not something most of us do lightly, but when all else fails, it’s the final option.

I would like to stop having these spam accounts and trolls on the instance. I could add email verification but it won’t make a difference and just make it more annoying for new users

Most instances require this, as do pretty much all mainstream platforms. I don’t think anyone is particularly annoyed by this.

InEnduringGrowStrong, 2 months ago

a home-instance temp ban will override a remote instance perma ban (there’s a PR in the works to fix this , but it’s the way things are currently)

The way things work now is annoying.

Troll creates an account on instance A, posts racist shit or other uninspired bait on instance B.
Gets instantly permabanned from instance B.
3 days later, home instance A decides to ban them for a week.
Thus, a week later, user is automatically unbanned from home instance and all federated instances, including where they were permabanned.
Current behaviour is bananas.

This particular troll’s lack of creativity is unsurprising.

Buelldozer, 2 months ago

Hi!

I can’t speak for all users of lemmy.today but as a user of lemmy.today I would prefer it if we took reasonable steps like email verification to be a good neighbor, especially if it prevents other instances from de-federating us. Just my 2 cents. :)

If you’d like help managing it I’m willing to donate time and effort.

mrmanager, 2 months ago

Yeah it makes sense. After reading all the arguments here, I guess if it helps to slow down spammers, it’s a good idea. Let’s do it. :)

I will enable it tomorrow and I would be very grateful for some extra admin help. I will contact you tomorrow. :)

1984, 2 months ago

Very good :)

Buelldozer, 2 months ago

Excellent!

1984, 2 months ago

I think it’s the right choice to agree to some measures being taken. Even if it has marginal effect, it sends a message that you are doing what you can.

ptz, 2 months ago

Oh, I did not know that. Today I learned. Thanks!

HootinNHollerin, 2 months ago

Sounds like a good idea to defed until he fixes his issue

ptz, 2 months ago

Some have already, and I don’t blame them one bit. I’m hesitant to since it’s mostly one troll over and over again using that open instance as a base camp, and I don’t want to block the whole instance because of that single jerk.

OTOH, I’m considering it, at least as a temporary measure. I usually reserve that for more severe matters (massive spam campaigns, CSAM, etc), but I’ve only got so much patience.

canis_majoris, 2 months ago

If somebody can’t moderate their instance in any kind of way that’s impacting other parts of the federation, it makes sense to defederate until they fix their problems.

I don’t think anybody should have open signups. It’s literally just an invitation to mess with the rest of us who are federated with the instance.

ptz, 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

I’m split on open signups.

On one hand, it makes switching from something like Reddit easier. For people joining us in good faith, that’s a good thing. On the other, it’s open season for trolls and spammers.

That said, I don’t think an instance with less than a team of admins spanning multiple time zones should have open registrations. Admins have lives and need sleep, so a single-admin instance with open signups has a huge window of opportunity for bad faith actors to take advantage.

There are automod tools which can help with this, but I still think open signups should only be enabled when an instance can have an admin on hand 24/7.

1984, 2 months ago

I think also most instance owners do more wirh their days than moderate their instance. At least I hope so, for their sake. :)

ptz, 2 months ago

I do, and would hope so as well 😆

NOT_RICK, 2 months ago

/u/NOT_RICHARD

A spammer jocking my style?!? 😤

ptz, 2 months ago

A lot of those are the same troll, and, if it’s any consolation, they’re not very creative.

PhobosAnomaly, 2 months ago

A shitpost duel awaits.

The winner gets seven statues on all continents, each facing a finely-calibrated direction - the intersection of their gazes meet at a point where the secret to humanity is buried.

The loser gets a year using the upside-downternet, six months on ISDN, or a week on MySpace as the only communication method with the outside world.

EdibleFriend, 2 months ago

Richard here! I can confirm both these people are not me.