This was my conment on a post saying that pregnant people should always be used instead of pregnant women. My comment was under someone saying vitamins for pregnant women should say vitamins for pregnant people. I have a trans son and many trans friends. My comment was not promoting hate! Fucking reddit mods
By wierd I simply meant Pregnant People sounds too illliteritive and when abbreviated (as happens in the medical field) it becomes PP which just sounds silly. Pregnant individuals would maybe be better but just The Pregnant or Pregnant is enough.
Yes i could have phrased things better. Assigned Female at Birth instead of biological female for example.
My main point is not that my opinions are better then the opinion of the OP or anyone else but that insta banning and assuming hate does nothing to help the cause. We should be able to just talk to eachother and ask questions and come to some sort of agreement (even if its agree to disagree). Insta banning is not an appropriate response here.
Thats kinda my whole point. Should i have phrased things differently. Maybe. But banning is such a harse response. How can people have discussions and come to sone sorr of understanding if banning is the immediate response?
All this political correctness and the extent we go through to ensure no one’s delicate heartstrings will be plucked is what makes this species so fucking pathetic.
What ever happened to just talking to people? Why can’t we change our language to fit the circumstances at hand instead of trying to find one size all solutions? Even among FTM or Non-binary individuals there’s no agreement. Some are fine with pregnant woman, some what pregnant person/individual, some want to be referred to as a pregnant man! I dont need to agree with any of that to honor the person in front of me and use their preferred term. Just tell me! Don’t assume malice where mistake is probably more likely.
I’m teaching my child to give others grace. Correct others who may mess up his pronouns. If they refuse to try to change then you can be offended. However, understanding that most people are just creatures of habit and don’t understand how the other person feels goes a long way towards the end goal of mutual respect. Instantly chastising them and assuming ill intent does not. Speak up for yourself and try to be respectful until its clear the other person isnt willing to be respectful back.
The main issues (as my best lesbian friend once chimed in with me) are the people who are rather too quick to find offence, in an aggressive way, rather than offer a correction or an explanation, or simply engage in some discussion to confirm their initial suspicions.
Exactly! Like just talk with me! Maybe we could reach an understanding. I admit I could have phrased thing better and explained my point more clearly. And i think they could have dropped their assumptions of hate and seen that i meant well but just dont word things right.
There’s no King of the Alphabet People dictating and controlling exactly how everyone behaves. You’re dealing with individuals who due to America’s (and other) shitty government are dealing with a literal existential crisis. This is a terrifying position to be in. Unfortunately I consider it normal and expected that in a situation like this for people to feel cornered and viciously protective of their safe spaces.
It’s not impossible to have a good faith discussion over the Internet. But not everyone wants to have those discussions. Not everyone wants to actually educate and recruit allies. Yes, notice I said “recruit” - it takes mutual effort to build that relationship, and that means both sides need to chill the fuck out and talk without alienating the other.
I have a couple of married friends. Both trans guys. They tried to adopt, and their options for surrogacy all fell through. So one of them carried their daughter. He didn’t want to do it, but they were out of other options, so he did.
He wasn’t “female whilst pregnant”. He wasn’t a mum, a mum to be, a pregnant woman, or any other term like that. He was a pregnant man, or when needed for clarity, a pregnant transgender man.
I’d ban you too, in a heartbeat, if you brought any of that bullshit in to a trans or queer sub that I moderate.
You having a trans kid doesn’t give you permission to walk all over the voices and experiences of trans people trying to navigate pregnancy
Why is it so hard for some people to just say “ok” and move on because it’s important to the other person. ESPECIALLY if “it’s no big deal” then just do it and see how much more your NB and trans friends feel comfortable
Well its an opinion post. So i gave my opinion. Its not hate to have a different opinion. Im sure with further discussion we could have come to some understanding as happened later in that thread. Where i corrected some of my language and further explained my pov. As someone else clarified the opinion of the OP in a way that was easier for me to understand. We were very close to forming a better understanding of language and inclusion that made sense to each of us. Then the OP called me an asshole. Deleted their comment and i got banned.
Your experience with your trans friends is wholy different than mine. Maybe its regional or cultural but the FTM trans I know well wouldn’t object to being referred to or lumped in with pregnant women on a general basis and if they did they are fully capable of correcting those refering to them with whatever term suits them. For non-binary pregnant person may sufice, for some FTM they may prefer pregnant man. Thats kinda my main problem i think. Health care is such an individual thing. There’s absolutely no reason why a doctor, nurse, or receptionist cannot use whatever term the person in front of them prefers instead of the extremely illiteritive term pregnant people. Why not just say the Pregnant? Or heck pregnant individuals if addressing a group? Pregnant people just sounds strange on the tounge and doesn’t really suit everyone. As a cis female person I want to be referred to as a pregnant woman not a pregnant person. Your friend maybe would have preferred pregnant man? Idk but why can’t we just meet individuals as individuals that they are?
Maybe its regional or cultural but the FTM trans I know well wouldn’t object to being referred to or lumped in with pregnant women on a general basis and if they did they are fully capable of correcting those refering to them with whatever term suits them.
Cool. Whatever works for them.
But it’s worth being aware that as you’re not trans yourself, the whole “I have trans friends who are ok with this behaviour many trans people feel is problematic” just sounds like the same excuses bigots have used over the years. “I have black/trans/female friends who are ok with <insert problematic topic>”.
Secondly, even if you are accurately representing their perspective, no one is taking away anyones right to identify with whatever terms best work for them. The issue is not pushing terms on to others who don’t want them.
Your friends can identify with pregnant women all they like, but it becomes an issue when trans men who don’t share that stance get told that they’re the problem
How hard is that? Does it really need woman/people? Sheesh. Its like deodorant or razors that say “for men” or “for women” …why is that even necessary??? Its the same stuff with a different color or different scent. Its all just dumb marketing.
Maybe people should just relax and realize that they don’t need to be bothered by labels anyway. I guess sure you could argue that its easier being misgendered as a cis person and that Transgender have naturally more insecurities about it but then what about non-binary individuals? Either way they get misgendered but they dont seem as insecure about it?
Truthfully I think getting triggered by a stupid label on a pill bottle is kind of unnecessary. Just rip it off or write over it. Not a big deal. 99% of the people buying them are cis-female so they put woman on the label or put it in a stupid pink colored bottle or something…big deal. Its just a Pregnancy vitamin! Its the same thing no matter what color the bottle or what gendered nonsense is written on it. Smh.
It must suck going around choosing to be triggered by something like that. It shouldn’t be that difficult to just be secure in your own indentity and stop letting the way the world works get under your skin.
And this is why you were banned. You posted bullshit. And when trans people explain why it’s a problem, you tell them that no, actually, they’re wrong, and that you, the person who isn’t trans, knows how they should feel.
A little bit of friendly advice a very wise person gave once:
Truthfully I think getting triggered by a stupid label on a pill bottle is kind of unnecessary. Just rip it off or write over it. Not a big deal. 100% of the people buying them are people so they put people on the label or something…big deal. Its just a vitamin for pregnant people! Its the same thing no matter what color the bottle or what gendered nonsense is written on it. Smh.
It must suck going around choosing to be triggered by something like that. It shouldn’t be that difficult to just be secure in your own indentity and stop letting the way the world works get under your skin. So maybe instead of finding even more cumbersome paraphrases like “pregnant individuals” just to be contrarian when “people” is just as accurate and shorter, be secure in your identity. Don’t let the way the world works get under your skin.
Seems like you put way too much effort in opposing such a simple change. Why care at all if its changed to “people”? You sound a lot like people “just asking questions.”
“Biological female” is also a big red-flag.
Some FTM may not even come out until they’re already pregnant. Some may choose to not take HRT for the purpose of having a biological child. And you don’t need to take HRT to be trans, so it also sound a bit too transmedicalist.
Seems sus. But honestly its weird what people are about, so I wouldn’t really blame you for feeling that way. For example:
“I doubt a label such as ‘vitamins for pregnant women’ would”
Back when I was an egg (ie: I had no clue I was trans), I remember specifically disliking when my parents got me shampoo with the label “men” on it. I’ve gone without deodorant because the one I usually got was out of stock and the next closest thing (the only other “vegan” one I knew of) was labeled “men”. I’ve avoided multivitamins marketed for “men”. I had no clue why that bothered me… I assumed I was cis-by-default. It still makes no sense why I care about any of that. But I certainly don’t doubt there’s trans men who care about such labels, even if just a little. Its probably not in the top 100 in the list of priorities, but there’s no reason to waste even a sentence defending that kind of wording.
Trans people already deal with enough BS elsewhere. No reason they should tolerate within their own communities. I’m currently banned from such a community I was a regular in and I’ll defend them banning me for what they thought I was saying (even though its based on a complete misunderstanding).
I hear you. Things are too labeled in society. Like deodorant and shampoo is the same for everyone…why do we need to add “for men” or " for women" anyway? I am a cis woman who has no issue buying “men’s” razors/shampoo/deodorant simply because its cheaper and since i use unscented products it doesn’t matter to me. I also buy and wear boxers cus they are more comfortable. I dont consider myself non-binary or trans or a cross dresser because Im secure in my womanhood and don’t consider it a big deal.
As far as the phrase " Pregnant People" it does sound weird when you say it aloud. Its too illliteritive. Why not just Pregnant if theres a need to generalize or pregnant individuals?
I feel that its just as easy to actually ASK the person in front of you what term they prefer you use and then just use that term rather than try and generalize and lump everyone together. As a cis women i wouldn’t care to be referred to as a pregnant person but it would’ve really bother me enough for me to correct them. If they called me a pregnant man, I wouldn’t get all offended and think they hate all cis women, id just laugh and correct them. Its really not hard to just communicate with the person in front of you. Its far easier than trying to change all language to be inclusive.
As far as the phrase " Pregnant People" it does sound weird when you say it aloud. Its too illliteritive. Why not just Pregnant if theres a need to generalize or pregnant individuals?
I dont see how that sounds weird. If you don’t like the illiteration, you can replace it with another noun. Pregnant is an adjective afaik, so it needs a noun to be applied to. Of course language can change, but expecting vitamin manufactured to be the ones to change the part of speech of a word seems like getting the order backwards.
I feel that its just as easy to actually ASK the person in front of you what term they prefer you use and then just use that term rather than try and generalize and lump everyone together.
So vitamins aimed at pregnants (guess we are making it a noun now?) will have a person behind the table that asks what noun you want written on the bottle before they hand it to you?
This isn’t about individuals: it’s a mass produced product. Of course for individuals you can tailor the language to the individual. I don’t see why you would normal ask anyways: most of the time you’ll just be implying someone doesn’t pass, whether they’re cis or trans and if they’re trans and not comfortable coming out yet, then you may be putting someone is an uncomfortable position of choosing to come out or misgender themselves.
As a cis women i wouldn’t care to be referred to as a pregnant person but it would’ve really bother me enough for me to correct them. If they called me a pregnant man, I wouldn’t get all offended and think they hate all cis women, id just laugh and correct them
Seems like reasonable responses. I’d be confused why calling you a “person” would be incorrect, but I’d try to respect it, but I’d eventually conclude you are probably transphobic.
I present as a guy and my body is masculine, so people gender me that way. It’s not really a big deal imo - like there’s certain specific terms like “man” that are kinda icky, but I’m not gonna care at all if you say “he.”
But that’s just my own experience. Different people are going to be different. Still, at least most trans people I know don’t get mad at people for misgendering them, even if they have their pronouns on their shirt or the people misgendering them have been corrected many times and are just intentionally being disrespectful. Of course some of the times, those interactions may make someone’s day much worse even if they don’t show it at the time.
Cis people get the advantage of cis-by-default treatment. Of course trans people are going to be less secure in their gender on average given all of the transphobia in society. Even if a cis person is regularly misgendered, they can still easily feel secure in their gender simply because they of the way they were born. That same source of confidence for cis people is an obstacle to be overcome by trans people.
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