This. Also, project managers are very much sought after, and you can relatively easily switch industrial sectors if that’s what you like. I’m currently on my 4th, only the 1st one was software.
How did you get your education and/or first experience with project management? I’m finding myself being pushed into a project management role and am finding it to be a difficult transition. I’m not unhappy about the transition and it is coming with increased pay, but I need to learn skills that will help me in the role.
Yes you should take it, if you got no other options.
Then you immediately update your CV with your new job title and jump ship for more pay. If the orginal company offers to match the pay you say “you had the chance to pay me more. If you valued me that much, you could have paid me that much from the start”
Don’t go back on your intent to leave for a better job. Some employers will see you as disloyal if you take the raise and stay. You’re usually better off leaving anyway.
There is rarely a situation where you should allow your employer to match the offer you have in hand.
They had the opportunity to do so and then failed to properly retain you. If they realize how much losing you will cost them in productivity, that’s on them, not you.
If they ain’t paying you enough to stay they’re highly unlikely to honor the idea of regular raises. They’ve already shown they’re willing to low ball you if they can get away with it so fuck taking the risk of staying.
If you take the raise and stay, you’re now a bigger number on the same asshole bean counter’s spreadsheet. Maybe the biggest in your role. That’s not a long term move.
This. My buddy/former manager accepted a counter offer and lasted less than 6 months before they fired him, and made his working life miserable during that time. Just reinforced the mentality in me to never trust the counter offer of a place I already want to leave.
Yep. Soon as you commit to looking, you commit to leaving.
I told my last supervisor about every interview I was on; how it went, what I thought, etc. After a year I left abruptly (ie the pace at which they’d fire me). They were surprised, even after I’d been telling my supe about my hunting for a year.
I cannot understand why this is so hard to get. People on here whining about their employer using them. Well, yes they are. Use them back. It’s just business, it’s expected on both sides of the table.
Last three times I jumped, I increased my pay by $12 -> $22 -> $32. I could go again, but I’m kinda fat, happy and lazy ATM.
One of the biggest hurdles for me is the gap in medical coverage and uncertainty of what is covered next. I have a genetic condition that requires very expensive medication. Jumping jobs and hoping COBRA payments aren’t insane is a big risk, so I don’t feel confident jumping quickly between jobs if one doesn’t work out.
Yep. Enjoying about $400 more per paycheck after my last employer shuffled my duties around for no additional compensation. “Duties as assigned” being vague works both ways.
I guess the part I don’t get about everyone saying to take it and immediately start looking for a new job using your new title is that the new job doesn’t ask you how much experience or time you have with your new title?
Like, do they really not ask for 2+ years experience in that position or do you just lie to them or do you say, “Yeah, about 3 days now!” ?
From what I’ve heard is recuritment has a sort of preference for candidates.
So that’s starts: People they know that can do the job.
People that they know, that know someone that can do the job.
Then I guess it would be people already doing the job.
So you’re not going to be in as good of a position as someone that has 2+ years in the business. But what it does show is that the company you worked for, for a while, thought you was good enough to promote to that level. It’s definitely going to make you more likely to get the job at a competitor. If it doesn’t just keep apply for 6 months. By that time you will have 6 months experience.
You might need a month on the job, ratger than 3 days, just to show you been trained to run that job.
Also just because a job says 2+ years experience doesn’t mean they wont overlook that. It’s just that’s what they prefer.
I think it’s great. Promote your employees to leverage their “promotion” on their resume and find a higher paying job elsewhere. Too many people getting comfy with these corporations that couldn’t give a rats ass about them.
So the industry that I was in for a long time was production based, meaning your income is reflected by your physical performance. It was extremely demanding and also quite high paying.
So, I got stupidly good at this job. And I rarely took on additional responsibilities, because that would actually mean more stress and less money. In this industry, there were two reasons to go into management: you either had trouble coping with the physical strain that came with this insane work, or because you wanted to hold power over others. But it wasn’t a pay bump and it was more work/responsibility. Consequently the people who took this on were rarely the people who should have and the industry on the whole suffers accordingly.
I went to school with a guy that became an underwater welder. Two things I learned about that job, it’s one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, and it pays a lot of money.
You wouldn’t think it, but tree planter. A pretty quintessentially Canadian job. It’s piece rate, usually between 15-50c per tree. I got to the point later in my career where I was regularly making $800+ per day, with a few days over $1500. It requires planting a helluva lot of trees though.
Not a year-round occupation, but it’s possible to make a decent annual income by doing this seasonally.
Haha! I worked for a contract cleaning crew for some time. Turnover was very high since the hours and wages sucked. The only people who hung around long enough to become managers were eminently unfit to be managers. Seems like managers are destined to suck for a large number of reasons.
Life doesnt have to be this way. We can thrive, not barely survive. We just need to keep trying new things till something works while we still have time.
How do we try new things? We do away with First post voting and get an opportunity to vote for people and political parties that have fresh ideas. With a electoral system like Ranked Choice voting, people would feel safe to vote for whomsoever they wish, as their vote would still be counted even if their preference didn’t win.
Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Republicans LOVE first past the post voting. Just sbsolutely adore it. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans want?
More political parties means a higher percentage of the population is representedby their choices in the voting booth. More peopleinvolvedin the electoral process, more people engaged.
Its a win win win all around for not just the people, but also for the democratic party. More people voting means more democratic votes. The numbers dont lie. So what’s the hold up blue states?
Some day we will be able to vote for who best represents our interests. We won’t need to grovel on our knees, begging for representationin government. We won’t need to wait for the Republican party to stop existing.
We can do it right now.
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
Obligatory plug for STAR Voting, not Ranked Choice Voting. STAR voting better avoids situations where voting for a preferred candidate can cause a less preferred candidate to win.
You will never fix a rotted tree by bevpming part of the rot. Fuck all this voting shit. It’s a distraction, and you will never get change without direct action.
Vote with your hands. Maybe build a guillotine, spend some time at the range, program light bulbs to feel bloodlust, whatever. Then maybe vote. But its pointless til then.
This is kind of dumb on the part of companies. There’s a great reason to take these: you can market experience in that position when you’re applying for jobs elsewhere. You want to give me SVP title with no raise? I will find someone who will pay happily.
I took a promotion without a pay rise on the agreement it would come when pay was reviewed annually. A shit deal, but one I was prepared to accept on the balance of things. I made clear that if they didn’t follow through then I would immediately demote myself and start looking for a new job.
Pay review came around and it was below inflation. I immediately demoted myself and started looking for a new job. I even requested an internal transfer that was denied (made them too much money where I was).
I handed in my notice a short while later and everyone was, to my surprise, surprised. I really didn’t understand why the shock…until I learned in due course that most people don’t follow through.
Funnier still, I returned 6 months later (due to a quirk in contracts) at double the salary in the dept I requested a transfer to.
Anyway my point is - do what is to your benefit, always. Companies can play games - as can you.
So true. I’ve seen promises broken for a multitude of reasons: malice, ignorance, naivity, legality…we always reach for malice but it isn’t always.
Same deal though - a company will break promises, so don’t feel any obligation on your part. Of course this needs to be balanced with your reputation in your industry.
I handed in my notice a short while later and everyone was, to my surprise, surprised. I really didn’t understand why the shock…until I learned in due course that most people don’t follow through.
When I was a young adult, I used to work as a lab tech in a plasma center. That involved taking liter bottles of plasma, checking the computer system, filling out paperwork, drawing fluid and taking blood vials to run in a centrifuge, and frequently having to redo paperwork because the barely-trained phlebotomists kept sending them to me covered in drops of blood. Of course, this not only took longer, but meant I had to sanitize the entire area, change PPE, and get shit from the rest of the team for not just taking their biohazard-contaminated paperwork regardless. The room held 50 to 100 donors at a time, and the lab team was just two people.
My immediate boss would routinely just fucking disappear or taking random lunches, even during rushes, leaving me to handle everything on my own. She’d get pissy over small things, and spent time chatting with management in the offices, just hanging out, while I did all the work.
One day, she did something like this and left. I muttered to myself that I was going to quit. I finished the sample I was working on and went into the -40 degree biohazard freezer to store the sample.
Cut to a minute later, I came out of the freezer to see someone from management in the lab, saying “I heard you’re quitting?”
…what?
She said “Fine then. Go ahead and go.” (or something like that.)
I was stunned, but realized that my shitty manager must have heard me on her way out, and fucking told on me. I hadn’t planned on following through, and was mostly just upset at being used, but now?
“Fuck it.” I thought. “I said I’ll do it, so I’ll do it.”
I’m not a good speaker, but I basically stumbled over some short apology like that I would have finished the work day first, but would leave now if she wanted to. Her reply was to get all exasperated, as if she hadn’t expected me to do anything but crumple at being confronted, and she told me “Well, have a nice life then!” as I walked out the door. Never saw her or my shitty manager again. Years later, I did hear my shitty manager had gotten fired or something, for being shit at hear job.
I did, but then the company got bought out, all the people who worked there fired, and I had to move back to a different state with family to avoid being homeless. Kill me…
You assume it means more responsibility and often it does but not always.
For example the promotion might be to “Senior Widget Fixer” rather than just “Widget Fixer”, possible it will recognise your experience but day to day not actually make much difference, until pay review or job hunting time. There are cases when it will make sense to take it.
They makes even less sense. If the company recognized you moved into a higher Sr level there’s nothing between the recognition and the salary raise except bean counters.
As a hiring manager I am sure you’re aware that when consulting professionals in the recruiting field, many people are told to replace their old title with their new one. The position they reach is more important when moving up than the one they had for X period of time, and many employers won’t dig too deep into it, especially if the potential employee can sell themselves.
On a CV someone would put X time at Y company, was role Z. How long role Z was is not normally listed and if I got a multi page CV with every role listed at each company I would toss it.
You want people who other people vetted as good enough to do <blank>. It’s often a first pass filter to even get to your inbox. Why wouldn’t you read the rest of the resume.
One of the positive things I took from this absolute stark nutball I worked with, is the idea that it’s better to be richer than famous, no matter what.
Taking a promotion and getting more visibility without a pay bump to match seems to break this rule.
I got a “dry” promotion at my last position, and obviously I took it. I then put my new title on my Resume, when job hunting for a few months and found a new position that came with a 20%+ pay raise.
I’m actually a big fan of promotions that don’t include raises, because it shows that your employer doesn’t actually value you as an employee, and enables you to get a much larger raise at a new company compared to whatever raise your current employer would’ve given you if they cared at all about retention.
Preach it. I fought and fought to get my ASQs and CQEs (quality certs) as an automations guy. I worked in fda/dea/gmp environments with those systems so why they hell not. Took 2 years to finally get both and bailed immediately. Did all my bs six sigma bullshit along the way.
If it’s a smash and grab for them then it’s a smash and grab for me.
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