nothingcorporate, in Are lots of websites really going downhill and/or closing or does it just seem like it to me?

This is the enshittification of the Internet. Cory Doctorow wrote about it here: and it explains why this was always going to happen.

peter, avatar

I’ve been saying this will happen for years and people just dismissed it, I’m feeling quite vindicated now

PabloDiscobar avatar

Can we think of a better word than this enshitthing?

Ragnell avatar

I've seen rentrophy thrown around, the decline in service as rent increases.


Mistifying / Mistification works if you like Anglo-German puns. Emmerdification for an Anglo-French equivalent.

If you're against anything to do with faeces at all, I'm not sure there's as short and easy a neologism that as fully captures the meaning and, importantly, disdain without being a mouthful.

You need an en- of some sort because it's clear that something is changing and then the action is the attempt to squeeze as much profit out of an enterprise with the expectation that nothing much will, er, change. This inevitably ruins or destroys the nature of the enterprise from the users' point of view.

Then the CEO immediately has cognitive dissonance between their own ego and self-belief of infallibility versus the fact the enterprise isn't working or has changed far more than their expectations. Their ego, and desire for profit, inevitably wins.

Much like badly managed corporate take-overs, all the smart people leave as soon as they can assuming they haven't already been fired and replaced by an inferior of some sort.

Thus, the whole thing turns to... well. Is there a better word?

hiero avatar

I dunno. If the general trend is to move toward the fediverse then things might actually get better.

peter, avatar

I hope that will be the trend, but I think the VC funding cycle will continue


Meta has already expressed interest in the fediverse. It's going to be up to everyone who likes it to defederate from every corporate instance.
There are no good corporate actors


I don’t know it off the top of my head, but I’ve seen it mentioned elsewhere that over on Mastodon, a large number of instances have banded together to collectively block all Meta owned instances, and publish a list of them and so on.

I think convenient-to-add, publicly viewable blocklists will be a thing on here sooner rather than later.

NotTheOnlyGamer avatar

Yes, blocklists are excellent, if you're looking to advertise those sites.

acronymesis avatar

You're telling me I can just block Meta/Facebook altogether here in the Fediverse?

I think I'm going to like it here. :)

TacoButtPlug avatar

Thanks for sharing this. I learned a lot.

Maxcoffee, (edited )
Maxcoffee avatar

Interesting read.

The likes of Spez were just not that intelligent enough to figure out how to make Reddit pay before the VCs called in the investments. Not that it's an easy problem to solve, but if you're going to take on money like Reddit did you sure as hell needed a better plan then leaving it up to later to figure out. Amazon had a plan clearly, Reddit did not.

Also, what Reddit is now doing mimics a little of what Facebook did too, the enshitification of your feeds (just look at the app). They're just hoping Reddit is as addictive as Facebook is and you'll stick around regardless. I wonder if they recent;y hired some new advisers that told them to make these recent changes too?


If it weren’t for MLM Huns and boomer memes of ice cold takes from 2013, Facebook would be long gone too.

Even just taking the huns out probably would have killed it 3 years ago.


Here's the play, charge a reasonable amount for API calls and people will either pay with money or with data, some will even do both.

Instead you and I are having this conversation on kbin.

After the way shithead acted and talked, well I waste less time on the internet, and yeah, it's a little harder to find results on google, but that is just making me realize how much I relied on Reddit.

I need to find another search engine too, I rely too much on too few providers.

They got us one convenience at a time.

melroy, avatar

I will never go back to twitter or reddit.


A better option might be to require third party developers to use a Reddit based advertising API with the benefit of free API usage and revenue sharing. Everyone's happy. Third party developers would get paid for ads, they can show more ads and use other ad providers along side Reddit if they want to, the API gets paid for by advertising revenue for all of the third party apps, Reddit gets to track it's users by requiring API Ad calls to send a user id, etc., etc..


Some search engine options aside from Google, Bing, and DuckDuckGo: (Brave also has their own browser; I've been using both and liking them)

If anyone knows of and likes any other search engines, please post a reply here and/or tag me!

jibbist avatar

It's a failure of a business mind all of this.

  • Failure to understand the users
  • Failure to realise who actually makes and owns the content
  • Failure to control costs
  • Failure to adapt and change how they charge
  • Failure to use the community to improve the product

I had a reddit account for 16 years, and as soon as Apollo stopped working a few days ago, I logged out everywhere and not going back

HandsHurtLoL, in Far-right figures, including Nazi supporters, anti-gay extremists, and white supremacists, are flocking to Threads

Hm, yeah I guess no one has been speculating about this part of the de/federate Threads reality. Everyone's worried about Meta and EEE, but what we should have really been discussing is the history of Meta moderation and community guidelines which have often cited "free speech" when people use white supremacist dog whistling but cite "calls to violence" when people of color actively complain about white supremacy.

There's a reason why we have seen news articles about large LEO Facebook groups trading and making joke comments on racist memes...

We were worried about the technology, but we should have been worried about cultural infiltration.

MiscreantMouse avatar

Exactly. What happens when a far-right troll like libsoftiktok sics thousands of rabid followers on a fediverse account? I get the feeling our small, volunteer group of moderators just don't have the resources to cover that kind of brigading.


For what it's worth, LibsOfTikTok's already getting slapped by Threads's moderation.

MiscreantMouse, (edited )
MiscreantMouse avatar

Nope, she has repeatedly had posts reinstated after being initially flagged for hate speech, including that one. Meta knows their audience.


Ah, damn. Should've figured it was too good to be true if she was posting it.


Also, I don't think moderation can even stop brigading or the downvotes to hell avalanche. It could only stop thread and comment creation on just your one community/magazine on your instance.

Nothing could stop a bad faith actor from finding my comments on a different instance and harassing or brigading me there if that instance federated with Threads, even if my instance defederate from Threads.

This Fediverse stuff is... complex.

sab avatar

Well, at least downvotes isn't going to be much of a problem, as threads users will only be capable of upcoming stuff they see here. They don't have a downvote button. :)

Ragnell avatar

They will be able to send swarms of trolls to harass. If Threads does even federate, I suspect even admins who didn't sign the fedipact will defederate quite fast.

sab avatar

The way the Fediverse is designed you need to actively seek out content. It's not going to be all that easy being a troll from threads attacking content on the Fediverse.

What I could imagine is that bigots might seek out LGTBQIA+ hashtags (along with hashtags related to other culture war dimensions), and find content from the Fediverse that way,

Then again, if that proves to be a problem, sites like Blahaj will probably be pretty darn quick to defederate. And this type of content, even when posted by kbin or users or whatever, will probably often take place in communities hosted by instances like blahaj. So the thread trolls would find themselves isolated from the discussion pretty fast.

On the other hand, there's a bunch of queer people who use threads. If all servers immediately defederate from it, these people will never get to have a glimpse into the fediverse. They could benefit a lot from joining a different platform, but if we focus only on the bigots we'll end up never reaching them.

The same logic of course applies to other communities affected by the anti woke culture war bullshit, I'm just too lazy to come up with a more original example. :)

Ragnell avatar

I don't know, a lot of us found our way here from Reddit and Twitter without being federated.

sab, (edited )
sab avatar

That's different though - it's going here and actively creating a user and settling. Interactions with Mastodon users are mostly limited to special interest groups and microblogs I feel, even though we're all in the same network.

Ragnell avatar

So we have the problem of protecting the vulnerable on our instances, while inviting the vulnerable from their instances.

I wonder if we could create Ambassador instances, where you have an account that basically posts to two instances: one that federates to Threads, and one that federates to the rest of the Fediverse.

ZILtoid1991 avatar

Facebook's moderation only covers the bare minimum. Simple mention of Hitler can get you banned (even if you're criticizing him), calling all LGBTQ people pedophiles and the likes are de-facto allowed there. Threads' moderation is pretty much the same from what I've heard.


Oh, we haven't been speculating about moderation because that's a known quantity. A major driver of defederarion discussion on the microblogging side of the fedi has been about the moderation issues that people would have to deal with if federated with Threads. And especially about bad actors on Threads getting posts from users on defederated instances via intermediary sites, and then spotlighting vulnerable people to trolls on other instances.

It's why many niche Mastodon instances are talking about defederating from any other site not blocking Threads. It's a significant mental safety risk for vulnerable people in the alt-right's sights.

HandsHurtLoL, (edited )

I'm not an "early adopter" of the Fediverse per se, but I came over on the reddit migration on June 11. I feel like I've been an information sponge trying to wrap my head around the organization of the Fediverse and seeing the benefits. I think I'm pretty up to speed, at least enough to discuss it with people offline and explain it in a way that does it some justice.

But I don't think I've seen a lot of discussion about the drawbacks of the Fediverse. I've seen a few threads about major privacy concerns related to the Fediverse, but most of the comments responding just kind of hand wave the issue.

Seeing a possible larger issue here regarding the moderation issues, I can't see anything other than a total containment of Threads away from other instances. Like, great - use ActivityPub, but don't talk to me ( or my child (literally everything else that wants to interact together in the Fediverse with kbin) again. Lol


The thing is, because minority-targeting trolls aren't taken seriously by any corporate social media platform, there's no big downside compared to them. It's just that them showing up here is effectively taking the safer space these communities they've built away from them, returning things to basically how they were just before they fled those other spaces.

They were made safe not due to the tools, but due to obscurity, and they're about to lose that obscurity.

This is... I don't want to call it a "good thing", because people who have suffered many assholes suffering them all over again is in no way, shape, or form good, but it's highlighting an issue that's been clear to these communities, but not to developers on the Fediverse: The moderation tools here are hot, sweaty garbage.

Hopefully we can see serious movement on making useful tools now.


I don't know if you have history on reddit, but the "safety because of obscurity" and having that taken away by increased visibility is absolutely what I lived through as a member of a subreddit called TwoXChromosomes. TwoX was a really welcoming space for women-identifying people to get a breath of fresh air from the constant "equal rights means equal lefts" kind of casual misogyny on the rest of reddit. And then corporate created the "default sub" designation and put TwoX on the list.

I remember the moderators at the time making it very clear to the community that they voiced their dissent but it was happening anyway (wow, what does that sound like?) and now a lot of the posts there get inundated with "not all men" apologists and all the OPs have reddit cares alerts filed on them.

be_excellent_to_each_other avatar


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  • HandsHurtLoL,

    Not disagreeing with your perspective at all, but there at least have been hidden enclaves on platforms like reddit that are not achievable on platforms like Twitter, in which consenting adults could find each other for consenting activities.

    You can't do that stuff on Twitter or IG because everything is too out in the open. You can do it on some other websites but they don't have the userbase and broader appeal and legitimacy like reddit had.

    Just not sure that there's a way to achieve it in the Fediverse because we're not just talking about the fact that there's a small but hopefully trustworthy group of admins who could wade through everyone's posts and DMs, or surely Google is indexing your comment and post submissions... We're talking about a solicitation of a sensitive nature goes out so much further than you can imagine.

    Please know this is not about finding new channels to conduct illegal activity!

    Blakerboy777 avatar


    @MiscreantMouse from my post and upvote history you can verify that I'm pretty in defensive of Meta federation because I think cutting them off immediately is against the spirit of open protocols. Their poor moderation would be an extremely legitimate reason to defederate. I'm against the defederation pact to fully cut them off before they even enter the fediverse but cutting them off as a pragmatic response to their actual character once they arrive us completely justified.

    snowbell, avatar

    The thing is, Facebook already exists. We have no reason to believe that they would moderate any differently with Threads. I haven’t been on facebook in 10 years and I don’t want to be there again.

    Blakerboy777 avatar


    @MiscreantMouse @HandsHurtLoL I don't think this space is well moderated at all. I think it's self moderated by being a small attack vector.

    trynn, in Microsoft wants to move Windows fully to the cloud
    trynn avatar

    That's a click-baity headline that doesn't really match the content of the article. Microsoft isn't going to be replacing desktop Windows installations with cloud installations, and nowhere in the article does it suggest it is. Many, many businesses require Windows installed on the desktop (and no, many of those can't switch to Linux, because the software they use is usually Windows-only). The article doesn't dig into who is currently using Windows 365 to stream the OS, but I would assume it's companies that are running computer kiosks, point-of-sale systems, or systems that would otherwise be extremely locked-down (like bank teller systems). Businesses that need system flexibility and resource-intensive applications aren't going to be using a cloud-based OS. Pretty-much any business that does engineering or creative work falls into that bucket.

    My interpretation of the article is that they want to extend cloud-based Windows to other users that have extremely lightweight requirements. The biggest market I see is the education market, where you generally want to provide students with very locked down functionality. The article mentions competition with Chromebooks, which is also huge in the education space. I could see this as a competitor to an iPad/tablet too, for those who mostly do browsing, email, or lightweight web-based MS Office tasks and want to have a keyboard and mouse.

    TL;DR: People are wildly misinterpreting this article, and there isn't going to be any kind of mass exodus to Linux because of Microsoft investing in Windows 365. Microsoft isn't going to stop selling installable copies of Windows.

    Simonoid avatar

    yup, microsoft has made great strides in creating individual windows instances in the cloud for business purposes. This makes sense to their long term goals to support business. local installations are a different discussion.


    Microsoft still sells single, non subscription licenses for Office. I think Windows is safe for the forseeable future, especially since they sell it to OEMs...


    How might it be different from something like Citrix? Just an official way to do it? Maybe some integration with hosting?

    trynn avatar

    I think it's basically the same idea as Citrix. They're targeting the same market, anyway, as far as I understand. I assume they each have their own pros and cons.


    Its probably different in that money goes to Microsoft instead of Citrix.


    I'm not an economist but that seems like a pro for Microsoft and a con for Citrix. Though, seemingly, Microsoft's approach, naturally, centers around their own devices and OS rather than Citrix's approach where just about every device/OS has an available application that can be used.


    Its probably in direct competition to citrix.

    For a recent job I had to sign into citrix to open a windows VM to access a corporate network. It was a pain, to be honest.

    MS could have made that much easier if it was just a matter of signing in and getting some form of windows image streamed directly.


    Citrix can do what you’re asking.


    I would assume it's companies that are running computer kiosks, point-of-sale systems, or systems that would otherwise be extremely locked-down (like bank teller systems).

    As an example, we're currently evaluating it as an option for doctors to access certain EMRs offsite where it doesn't make sense to provide them an entire workstation, e.g., community doctors working from their private practices.


    Microsoft isn't going to stop selling installable copies of Windows.

    I agree with most of your comment, but I bet Microsoft will what do whatever the market says will be most profitable, so nothing is off the table.

    trynn avatar

    Yep, you're absolutely right. I think my main point is that switching to only offering a cloud-streamed OS as their only offering would kill off a massive market where they have market dominance (enterprise desktops). It doesn't make business sense for them to leave that market. If the demands of that market change, then you're right -- they're going to do whatever is most profitable. But we're nowhere near there yet.


    Because why would a business buy a computer for $1k that they can write off by depreciating the value of, when they can not own a less useful, less powerful one that only works when there is internet for only $100 per month instead?

    melroy, (edited ) avatar

    This was to be expected... But eventually.. Microsoft will force people to the cloud.. I just feel it.. it's happening..


    I'm absolutely with you. Boiling frog and all. 10 years ago nobody would have believed that you'd require an online account to log into your local machine.

    As soon as it's viable from a business point of view (as in people will swallow it), it will be cloud only.


    But what does Microsoft gain by that?


    Subscription fees instead of single-buy licenses are generally more profitable after 1-2 years. This whole cloud crap is a pure vendors' market.

    Also, telemetry isn't required anymore when users just use cloud services. That's what made Google and Facebook big after all.

    melroy, avatar

    100%! This will happen indeed.


    Microsoft isn't going to be replacing desktop Windows installations with cloud installations, and nowhere in the article does it suggest it is.

    I'd say Microsoft's long term needle-moving strategy including the bullet point "Move Windows 11 increasingly to the cloud" suggests it pretty strongly. Calling it "needle-moving" says to me that they want the cloud to be more and more the expected default, rather than an option that exists alongside desktop installs.

    trynn avatar

    Perhaps I've just read too many Microsoft business documents (I used to work for them years ago), but that's not how I interpret that slide. It looks more to me like they want to "cloud-ify" functionality that could be used either from a desktop install or from a cloud streamed version. The key phrase in that slide to me is "Use the power of the cloud and client to enable improved AI-powered services and full roaming of people's digital experience".

    That kind of fits with what they've been doing by moving Windows login to use a Microsoft Account by default (which I hate, btw -- I'm one of those local account people), as well as integration of OneDrive as default file save location. It's the same kind of thing Apple's been doing with macOS for the past few years, adding iCloud integration with everything. If you move that functionality for desktop installs to mostly be cloud-based, it also allows you to create a more viable cloud-only offering. But it doesn't mean there's a reason to stop selling a desktop-installable version.

    Microsoft is still a business, and they'd lose a ton of market-share by killing off desktop installs, especially in the enterprise sector, which is their bread and butter. They're looking to expand into other markets, not kill off large existing ones.


    Glad someone is calling this out. Came from a link elsewhere and the headline just screamed no fucking way. Users won’t tolerate buying a machine only to stream the fucking OS from elsewhere. Sounds more like when I had to stream a desktop from AWS to access my schools licensed Adobe suite.

    VoxAdActa, in Reddit says it’s ‘not acceptable’ for communities to go NSFW in protest
    VoxAdActa avatar

    All Reddit had to do was STFU and wait for a month or two. Lack of any reaction or results is probably the most demotivating thing in all human experience. Go forward with the plan, say nothing, give no interviews, send no messages, do nothing to the mods or the subreddits, and within just a couple weeks, the users would get bored and force the place to return to normal. Either through pressuring their mods or just starting new subreddits with the same theme as the closed ones. The effect on the front page and the common lurker would be minimal and transient.

    Instead, Spez has to go around slinging shit from his diaper at literally every opportunity, taking more and more extreme actions, hiding behind a fake mod name, saying super salty things to everyone, etc. He's basically the only person continuing to add fuel to this dumpster fire. It's literally just him. If he got sick or hit by a bus or something and had to shut up for even just a week while he was recovering, Reddit would lose interest in the whole thing, because without a visible enemy to fight, the users would turn their frustrations on each other. But he's clearly suffering from some deep psychic wound that keeps him from being able to shut his pie hole.


    My guess, a month or two delay doesn't fit into their timeline. It shows with the rush to API change, and the "convenient" July 1 (3rd quarter) start date. They're going all out to prove Fidelity's valuation downgrade wrong, and show a full quarter of Reddit's revenue potential.


    I had only planned to leave Reddit once their API pricing impacted apps. But then spez/Huffman decided to go around bad mouthing all of us old guard reditors and moderators, so now fuck him. I'm not going back even for a day or two.

    BaconIsAVeg avatar

    I left Reddit and deleted my accounts a few hours after the subs went dark and my feed dried up. I don't use mobile apps, I have no horse in that race at all.

    It just wasn't an enjoyable place to be anymore, and that's all because of spez.


    Honestly when they first came out with their new api pricing I thought well that sucks, but I get that they are not profitable and realy need money. So I joined the 3 day protest, but in general planed to stay. But the second spez started to throw shit in every direction and just wouldn't stop I said fuck it and left

    Skray avatar

    Spez has an ego problem and now he's in too deep.

    He can't reverse course and admit defeat now, reddit will keep trying to strongarm mods because they have to win and show that they're in control and not their mods or their users. Ultimately they do have all the power and can ban everyone and remove all the mods and replace them, but it will damage the site. Spez doesn't care though, even if the entire site is burned to the ground, he'll have won. And he'll blame everyone else for his loss of IPO value.

    fupuyifi avatar

    He's had a bit too much of the attitude of, "I'm the founder. All must bow to me".

    I've had to deal with a lot of that at work before :)

    Ganondorf avatar

    After reading Spez's interviews I deleted the reddit bookmark on my browser. Once Apollo shuts down I'm deleting the only reddit app on my devices. That dude is a tool.


    I downloaded an extension that can automatically redirect me to another website that way if, by force of habit, I try to go to reddit, it redirects me here.

    Dr_Cog avatar

    It's not just spez. It's the board that probably made the decision to disable API access, and that can remove spez if they choose to. But they won't, because they want the enshittification necessary to let them cash out once they go public.


    Maybe he's a willing scapegoat for the board with a promised golden parachute? I just can't think of how somebody can get that far and be so tone deaf.


    I bet my lunch that Spez and all the board will sell their stock and leave.


    No like even today, if he came out with an honest apology video and offered to work with devs on a reasonable API price plan he could still mostly recover and keep all the low effort users.

    But for some reason he's hell bent on actually crashing the community. Even the lurkers are starting to jump ship. It's either sociopathic narcissism or a high school shaped ego, but he just can't let it go.


    Former lurker here! I jumped shipped and have posted more on Lemmy in my first week than 11 years on Reddit.

    Arotrios, in Netflix added nearly 6 million new subscribers amid password sharing crackdown.
    Arotrios avatar

    ---Obligatory fuck Netflix post---

    Watch anything you want super simple:

    Look for something to watch, less simple:

    Stream or torrent, use with a VPN if you download: (scroll down for install files)

    Canceled my sub a year ago (which had lasted since the Blockbuster days) when I heard about the changes and never looked back. Their horrible treatment of talent and their refusal to provide proper residuals is one of the main dynamics driving the SAG AFTRA strike. Imagine being a major actor in a show millions are actively watching, and your monthly check from it is $27.

    Side note, Netflix has 3.5 billion in free cash on hand. Once the strike was announced, they scaled back their content investment and are now claiming 5 billion in cash reserves.

    These fuckers can absolutely afford to pay their talent a living wage. Until they do, they aren't getting a dime from me.

    NOT_RICK, avatar

    Wow that first one is crazy easy

    Arotrios avatar

    Yep, and pretty powerful for sharing too, as you can simply link an entire movie or series episode via hyperlink.

    NOT_RICK, avatar

    I take it access through a VPN is advised?

    Arotrios avatar

    Generally, but the way movie-web and work is that they're linking you to cached streams pulled from torrents and hosted on separate servers like Upcloud - you're only viewing the content, not hosting it. As such your risk of being prosecuted is considerably less than directly torrenting, especially if you've got decent privacy protections on your browser.

    That being said, safety first unless you trust your ISP.

    Pegatron avatar

    How have I never heard of these?

    ArugulaZ, in Musk says Twitter will no longer have a light mode, making dark mode the default option
    ArugulaZ avatar

    Funny, knowing Elon, I assumed he would have gone with a whites only mode.


    What the fuck is wrong with you.

    ArugulaZ avatar

    I get that a lot.

    LazaroFilm avatar

    No, what the fuck is wrong with Elon‽

    Ganondorf avatar

    Nothing wrong with argulaZ. They are bothering to read news.

    "Hate speech is soaring on Twitter under Elon Musk, report finds"

    albinanigans avatar


    mahomz, in Twitter content now behind login wall?

    If like me, you only engage with Twitter to the extent of clicking on a link that takes you to a Tweet, reading it and then getting the hell out before the brain dead replies consume what little remains of your soul, then can I recommend Googling up an addon for your preferred browser that redirects Twitter to Nitter as a way around this new barrier to entry.

    I am using this one


    nitter has stopped working :(

    RandomStickman avatar

    Don't know why I haven't thought about looking for this add on. Thanks for the link!

    Infiltrated_ad8271 avatar

    At least until they break nitter, as they already did with the +18 content.

    !deleted95653, (edited )


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  • noodlejetski,

    considering how its been working for years

    so were third party reddit clients.


    Nitter unfortunately does not work right now due to this change. Hopefully they will fix this somehow (probably by changing user agent to googlebot, because they still allow web crawlers)

    Mnmalst, (edited )
    Mnmalst avatar

    There is also in case you are not aware which supports A LOT of different services besides twitter.


    Most of those servers are dead though (including some nitter instances). You will need to manually disable those that don't work and it's pain in the ass.

    GeekFTW, in Brain chips to be tested on humans this year, Elon Musk says
    GeekFTW avatar

    As someone who likes the idea of transhumanism:

    I'ma fuckin' pass, dog.


    Dude cant even get the software on teslas to work right and we are going to trust him with brain implants? Lol

    gus avatar

    And what company would you currently trust to make brain implants?


    I can't help but think brain implants are an inherently bad idea.


    I believe the answer to that one to be "fucking not a-one", but that's just an educated guess of course.


    I just love the assumption that we have to have brain implants (why? Because L. Ron Musk said so?)

    GreatBigJerk avatar

    I think it's the sci-fi fantasy of it. Like being able to download knowledge like the matrix.

    In reality the real use of these is to help people with brain injuries or disabilities.

    Elno wants to grift people on the former. Literally everything he does is selling people the knock off wish version of something from a sci-fi movie/book/game.


    Musk aside, BCI will be a significant part of human lives in the distant future, they will initially aid existing tech but as the technology advances I can forsee a black mirror-esque future with our brains having a digital component.


    or you know like from the 1st Kingsman movie


    Look how it went for monkey test subjects. 😳


    They were going to ask for volunteers from Musk's legions of loyal fans, but then they realised the subjects needed to have brains.


    Just finished my first cuppa and had a nice and literal lol. Thanks for starting my day right!

    HansGruber avatar

    Yeah same.
    Just hope Musk won't ruin people's perception for this or similar kind of tech.


    @GeekFTW @kjr Companies already analyse our life with our activity online and know a ton about us.

    What a great idea it would be to give them access to our every fucking thought

    Astigma, avatar

    Yeah same here, I'm much more curious about Valve's foray into BCIs. GabeN mentioned in an interview a few years ago that they're closer than we think and I want to know what he's cooking up.

    Deceptichum avatar

    Finally, Mecha GabeN is near.


    Immortal Mecha GabeN is the solution against enshittification in gaming.


    Whatever it is, it'll probably start with "wake up Mr. Freeman"

    div, in Reddit and the End of Online ‘Community’

    "These people who are mad, they’re mad because they used to get something for free, and now it’s going to be not free. And that free comes at the expense of our other users and our business. That’s what this is about. It can’t be free."

    Funny, seems like he has been getting all of it from content to moderation for free, and now he is the one angry it isn't free any more....huh.

    Singletona avatar

    Funny coming from a techbro that thought to farm out getting site content from that userbase he's now wanting money from.

    Like I get it if he's wanting to not go into debt, but at the same time he's shot any chance at user good will and assistance in the face with a cluster fat man.


    You're right on the money. Spez is just a generic CEO waving his dick around. Prick.


    Generic CEOs wouldn't do a catastrophic AMA like he did. They would stay out of it and let PR or somethind handle the situation. He puts his face out there, I suppose, particularly because he looks up to Elon Musk and wants to emulate him.

    Jojo-Mcfrost572 avatar

    Nailed it.

    CEOs. Literally the worst. Toss up between "politicians" or CEOs. They take what they don't produce and exploit it for their masters.

    Singletona avatar

    'What's Scum?'
    'bankers, politicians, cattle kings. Scum.'

    Jojo-Mcfrost572 avatar

    Too true


    Young Guns 2 throwback? Classy! Clip



    swope avatar

    Seems like a case for r/selfawarewolves ... If that's a thing that still exists.


    Wonder if there's a magazine/community on Kbin or Lemmy.

    swope avatar

    There is, and I commented on a thread they had. But I'm too much of a noob to get back to it and get you a link.

    swope avatar

    It's the same as when he started talking about "landed peasantry", the projection is strong, aware or not.

    Jojo-Mcfrost572 avatar

    Rmemes has passed a motion to only post landed gentry memes. So yeah


    This is my favorite one yet lmao


    That's because he sees himself as a king.

    NotABearJustAHuman avatar

    Well I didn't vote for him

    Kichae, (edited )

    But the ownership class always deserves to get things from regular people for free. It's only those of us who make our living from our physical or mental labour, rather than owning property, that don't deserve free shit.

    That's just the hierarchy in action, doncha know.


    Yeah, the hubris is out of this world insanely unreal. Christ man, whoever that VP of Comms is at reddit is not doing a good job.


    Yep mainly moderator's.

    Also the thing we were getting for free (or paying for app) was a good service. If the Reddit app wasn't crap when could have had that money. Many pay for premium to remove ads and still use these apps

    briongloid, avatar

    I had thought those where your words at first, you can quote like this;

    These people who are mad, they’re mad because they used to get something for free, and now it’s going to be not free. And that free comes at the expense of our other users and our business. That’s what this is about. It can’t be free.

    I'm struggling to show you what symbol it is without it turning into a quote, so here's a picture of the greater than symbol;

    FaceDeer avatar

    To display formatting characters without having them actually affect formatting, put a backslash in front of them. Like this:


    That produces this:


    briongloid, avatar


    nice, thanks for that


    The "\" is a so called "escape character" in thise case. Just FYI :)


    Oh, nice! So I set the quote in between the greater then and less then symbols and it will show the quote? That is pretty cool. Thank you.


    Not quite I think. I believe this uses markdown, which just uses the > at the beginning of a line

    > This is a quote

    should become

    This is a quote

    And if you need more lines, you just keep symboling

    > 1
    > 2
    > 3



    You don’t need multiple > unless you want to quote paragraphs, see my comment further down

    rideranton avatar

    And I believe you can do a multi line quote with 3:

    >>> hello darkness my old friend
    I've come to speak with you again

    hello darkness my old friend
    I've come to speak with you again

    Unless I'm wrong and this isn't actually working

    Hmm well that looks like it worked too well

    > test



    Nah, multi-line is just

    > line 1
    line 2
    line 3

    line 1
    line 2
    line 3

    You only need multiple > if you want paragraphs:

    > paragraph 1
    > paragraph 2

    paragraph 1

    paragraph 2

    swope avatar

    Yes but when can we use ||spoilers||


    >!Testing!< is the Reddit spoiler syntax, not working yet, though: >!Test!<



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  • cwagner,

    And also confirming that the Lemmy spoiler syntax does not work on kbin.

    YeetTheRich, (edited )

    ::: spoiler test post, please ignore //&gt;<; the narwhal bacons at midnight //&gt;<; :::

    I hope the inconsistent escape character behavior doesn't break anything. Also, it would be nice to have some way to start a new paragraph after a spoiler with a blank line between them.


    Feels like I'm back on Reddit circa 2015 LOL


    This never changed for those of us who used old reddit ;)

    FaceDeer avatar

    I had no idea it was different for new Reddit, I never touched that interface except to hurriedly find my preferences and set them back to Old. :)


    I think it has a wysiwyg editor or something.


    Well it did because everyone on old Reddit already knew how to use it LOL



  • Loading...
  • briongloid, avatar

    I've been wondering what that feature was.


    If they had charged API fees such that 3rd party apps would have had to charge a monthly fee to users....I would have probably just paid. And I know I'm not the only one.

    But they priced it intentionally to kill 3rd party apps, because they wanted to channel access through their garbage app with its "promoted" ads all over the place.

    It's not about "free vs. not free" it's about intentionally killing off the applications that made reddit likeable as a platform.


    Even with the api fees, 3rd party apps are no longer allowed to show nsfw content. Would you still have paid a monthly fee?


    And that mods use to effectively moderate.

    Singletona avatar

    Also, as a disabled internet user, those APIs are of value for the sake of accessability. Given Reddi'ts own app is, and forgive me to use technical jargon here, steaming pile of bullshit even for those with perfect vision?

    Yea fuck you too spez.


    their app is so ass and the response is to kill all other apps rather than improve their own

    I mean, they could have just stolen the good designs from other apps and made theirs more user friendly, but fuck that, better to scorched earth the motherfucker

    honestly, I was going to stick around reddit but after seeing all the bullshit he's spewing in these tech interviews I don't want to give him a penny of my time/data


    Their app WAS more user friendly. This whole thing is them buying Alien Blue, deciding it wasn't monetized enough, and ruining it


    That's why this whole debacle is so mystifying to me. If they would have tried to monetize the 3rd party space by way of charging a reasonable API price to the devs, it's not hard to imagine that most serious Reddit users wouldn't have any qualms with parting with a few bucks here and there to keep the status quo. I can't imagine that Reddit is able to create a situation where they earn more from their advertising platform per user than having users simply pay to maintain the existing experience.

    The only theory I've heard that makes a lick of sense is that if Reddit fundamentally changes the site experience to pursue other monetization options (Hello Reddit NFTs), then 3rd party apps would've been able to just ignore implementing those features entirely.


    My speculation is that they want to charge LLMs like ChatGPT, especially for training. Those devs basically want to access every conversation on Reddit.

    wave_walnut avatar

    I guess too. IPO might be for sale to AI big tech.


    What's weird, it doesn't make sense even then. I feel like it started as a simple miscalculation by Spez which he took personally. I mean, the part he insulted the Apollo dev is clearly that, but maybe the whole thing as well?


    Is there anything stopping an organization with programming talent from accessing all of Reddit via http and bypassing the API fees?


    Google Scholar does just that stoppage, for example. It'd be cheaper to pay API fees.

    s_s, (edited )

    My "make it make sense" theory is--this is entirely about the IPO and we need to look at the biggest issue from last years social media sale.

    Musk sued Twitter for obfuscating/failing to disclose how much of it's activity was bots during negotiations. It was a legit point of contention. These social media services are incentivized to turn a blind eye to the problem. (eg The "impressions" number that Facebook and Google sell advertisers is all malarkey) You'll notice that now that Musk owns twitter he doesn't say a word about bots other than occationally patting himself on the back for shutting bots down (ok yeah sure elon).

    I think reddit is in a similar predicament where they really want to inflate their user stats with bot activity for the IPO, but they can't because the app stores provide solid stats on users and user activity and they don't control that flow of information, the 3rd party developers do.

    If they think 15%-30% of the sites activity is repost bots, they really don't care about alienating the 5% of users using third-party apps.

    The AI learning angle is all smoke-and-mirrors.

    And in reddit's case, rather than someone like Elon buying/fact checking the terms of purchase, for IPOs you have to get your disclosure documents past the SEC. Smart people, but hardly experts at how social media companies run.


    Yup, if two months ago they said reddit premium members won't experience any changes, and started pushing ads to 3rd party clients and restricted NSFW posts on 3rd party clients without premium I bet there would have be considerably less push back. I know I probably would have ponied up to $60/year,but instead I have abandoned the site without any intention to return.


    Yeah. It's the paying a lot for considerably less since NSFW makes up a huge proportion of the content. I don't think (all) users would have balked at $5/mo for unrestricted content access. $10/mo with restricted access, though? Some people have a problem paying that for streaming which has real costs. It's just not happening to get access to half of a text based platform which barely hosts videos.

    I_Miss_Daniel avatar

    I think there's a little more to it. If they're trying to go the Meta way where dwell times and other such evil metrics are used, they need to have their own app for that level of info. It might be a requirement for their IPO or requested by their advertisers.


    Seems like those kinds of metrics could be collected by the 3rd party devs if Reddit requires them to include a bit of code in their 3rd party apps as a condition for API access.

    Col3814444, in Pornhub Tells Users to Take Action Before Politicians Take Their Porn Away

    Getting real tired of these fucking Christian assholes trying to force their twisted morals on everyone else.

    cyberian_khatru avatar

    It's not even about morality. It's a dumb law that doesn't protect users most at risk—even if enforced—while making it incredibly convoluted and awkward for everyone else.

    On second thought, that second part was probably the point.

    admiralteal, in Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

    The internet got a lot worse under the reign of big search and its associated ad platforms.

    Milled content has taken over. Low-quality and corrupt product reviews, fake instructions, and repeated canned text.

    It's become less possible to get good information using search engines generally. Reddit was creating a stopgap because of its vote system and, frankly, its lack of available ad revenue for business meant that the information on it was more likely to be accurate than the information on the general internet.

    One way or another this was about to go away. The good information that was available on Reddit was provided by volunteers who were not valued by the C-suite of that site. What was valuable was ad revenue, and pro-business content Farm bullshit is more valuable than good information to advertisers.

    Thinking the reddit blackout is hurting search is the wrong take. Modern search algorithms and the SEO services that naturally follow them are hurting the free flow of information. Particularly useful information. And as AI chatbots become more powerful, we stand at serious risk of drowning in an ocean of bullshit and not being able to use the internet for any useful research.


    To say nothing of content theft. The number of websites that just take the StackOverflow data exports and put them all on a shallow clone of the site in hopes of gaming Google is utterly ridiculous. I guess OpenAI has killed that now, in the worst possible way.


    Lol. I mean, yeah, lol. Stack Overflow was always pretentious and a massive pain to actually use yourself. Now they're throwing a tantrum and disabling archiving exports? Zero pity. I bet the archive is effectively zero maintenance and costs them nothing to run.

    EDIT: It gets worse the more I read. "Profit off the work of the community", what, you're the ones doing that. The "community" wants their answers out in the world, they just want to help people, SO is the one using it to make money. This is enraging.

    EDIT2: The very final comment is a link to a duplicate. Very SO.


    Well said.

    Catch42 avatar

    This whole thing has made me realize just how dependent I was on reddit for making the entire internet experience better.


    Fortunately, Chatgpt was trained on data sets from Reddit and other sources, so not all knowledge is lost. But totally feel the pain, I'm going to miss reddit (still haven't been back since the blackout - I blocked reddit at the router level to prevent accessing it accidentally out of habit)

    delawen, (edited )
    delawen avatar

    If our hope is on ChatGPT and its friends, we are doomed.

    In a couple of years there will be entire webpages automatically generated with content no human has reviewed. Not even read. And they will be so optimized for SEO, they will be the first results on most search engines.

    And the content of those webpages will be crappy. Elegantly written, yes, perfect English. No grammatical errors. But it will tell you the recipe of gazpacho is done with hot spicy tomato sauce and that the acne you have can be cured by sleeping naked under the moon the second Thursday of the month.

    I already miss the human-generated internet and we are still here!

    adrian avatar

    There's a glimmer of hope that search engines lose relevance, and so will SEO and SEO-related spam.