@HumanPenguin@feddit.uk
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HumanPenguin

@HumanPenguin@feddit.uk

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HumanPenguin, (edited )
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To seperate themselves from russia. As they use the Julian calander celebrateing in jan.

I assume it is also to unify with the west. As that has been aboided in the past due to russias threats.

But as theu no longer have reason to avoid joining nato. I imagine officially sharing the same calendar seem like a bery easy unifying move.

I aaaume anyone who feels the need to celebrate on the 7th jan still can

Although hard to understand why any obe would care. Its not like xmas is the actual date of any past event. But instead the time pagan religions in europe were already celibrateimg yuletide etc.

HumanPenguin,
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Is kind of annoying

Very. But unfortunately FPTP dose tend to force it. And the big parties know this so will not help to remove it.

HumanPenguin,
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As the manifesto are not released yet. At best it will be a guess.

Week or so you may start seeing 2019 sites updating. As they get ready for release.

But honestly. Most folks will be looking at voting against the tories. Rather then voting for policies.

FPTP tends to punish idealised voting. And the current polling makes it clear removing tories is more important then specific policies to most voters. So it is very likely tactical voting will be the bigger site motivation this time.

HumanPenguin,
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Seriosly

Why would anyone expect the states to be better. You have a reputation for cruelty towards your own citizens.

Honestly the states is not the part of the world most brits expect anyone to aspire towards. Its who we warn people to avoid.

HumanPenguin, (edited )
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Yeah this is a tread about the UK government trying to sell a crap idea.

So yes the only opinion of any merit at all. Is what the military leaders of the UK armed forces think.

Other nations have different military structures. Different concentration of assets. The UK back in the 1960s ended conscription. And decided instead to invest in technology. And personal with the training to operate that technology.

Rather then using ill motivated short time troops as little more then cannon fodder.

Conscription is always a bad idea. Because once you have gotten to that stage. You are basically deciding to throw bodies at the problem. As russia is doing.

For a nation lacking funding. Sure it can be the only option. And for a nation at genuine risk of ground war. It can be needed. But its a bad idea. Because when you get to that stage. Other ideas and options before hand would always have been better.

Conscription is by its very nature using citizens of your own nation to absorb attacks. As in no situation can conscripts show the professional training of people who choose to invest in a military career. Hence way pretty much every nation with funding. Even the few that keep the option active like the US. Has military leaders who reject it. And just mouthy politicians and older voters who think it is a positive solution.

Edit: related but a little of topic. Another reason most nato nations and the UK reject conscription as anything but an all has failed strategy. Is MAD. As much as Russia threatens and brags. Russia knows full well attacking a NATO member nation will not result in a ground war. Russia simply dose not have the air or naval superiority over NATO nations as a whole. The only threat they have that has any chance of working in an all out war. Is nukes. And while russia may be overconfident in the effectivness of their own stock of nukes. They know full well NATOs are well maintained. So using one on a nato nation. Is the end of Russias ability to use them as a threat.

There is a reason Russia has avoided landing on NATO land. Even after they forced Finland and sweeden to join. Mutually Assured Distruction may be crap when dealing with Extremist nations using terrorism. But Russia still has enough sanity to recognise its limits.

HumanPenguin,
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Sure but you can already do it.

All this is is a requirement to do it.

HumanPenguin,
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The UK military leadership disagree with you. IE the experts who need to manage the system.

All it dose is create ill motivated unskilled labour. At a time were fighting a wat has the least need for that type of labour.

HumanPenguin,
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Cameron set up a service where you can vollenteer to do just this. Its been around for years. And like any work experience training. You end up doing the unskilled stuff. Cos of course you will never gain any experience that requires qualification. At best you get to watch.

And even before Cameron charities offered and offer these services and many more.

This is literally just making a volentry thing mandatory. Nothing else at all.

HumanPenguin,
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As we are talking about the UK. Where it is UK military leaders and technological investment that the leaders will be training for.

What any other nation thinks or dose is pretty worthless. As is some politicians trying to win votes from boomers. Or myself.

Only opinion that matters really is the UK military leadership. Who make it clear they do not want this.

HumanPenguin, (edited )
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Success is no proof of comparative ease.

Just that the division is actual evidence that a different approach is needed. And let’s face it. In most daily situations the military has a do it the way we always have attitude.

Thanks for sharing though. Its a good story to share.

As I said we did it in the UK. Not just with regular troops in ww2. But spy units were trained in secret (along with the home gaurd). To act as a resistance if Germany ever took the UK.

This was made up of retired and protected industry non conscripts.

Much of it only released under the official secrets act in the last 20 years. They were literally trained to sabertarge the German lines and keep the resistance active if our government was removed.

But as I say. Its a different thing to train older people. Unless they have had reason to remain fit. Many take more time. And care to train to military standards. The higher level their carreer the more likely much of it was spent at a desk.

And teens leaving school are more used to being directed in the way they are expected to think. Old folks have good reason to think they may know better.

As I said harder to train not impossible. Often best with a more flexible approach then the break down and rebuild most basic training attempts.

And my grandfather died a few years back. But could not keep up was not a phrase I’d dare use untill the last few years. But generalisations have value when folks are making decisions based on a whole nation.

HumanPenguin,
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As the other commenter said. There is a reason drafting is normally done at a young age. Once you get to late 30s. It takes effort to stay fit. Most folks having done a desk job in that time. Are not suitable for the sort of roles conscription is generally used for.

Conscripts tend to need to be trained in ways older minds are less willing to accept. Amd tend to still be used for tasks that are more physically demanding then professional soldiers.

Now back in ww2 the UK did draft older people. So it is lass rare in Ukraine like situations. But it dose show how rare such situations have been in the last 40 years or so. That many of us have grown up never seeing a draft get so desperate for people.

Unlike some posters on lemmy claim. It is not really a sign that NATO nations will look to conscription yet. Or at least those that do not do so in genral will not need to move to doing so. The simple,e fact that nato nations are drawing from well over 900m people to russias 145m. Means it will take a major change before Russia is able to form a ground war within nato territory. Even the new ones of sweeden and Finland. Russia would need some seriose funding and rebalencing to be able to threaten the professional forces in a way that would look for conscription.

But this dose paint a clear picture of how bad things actually are in the Ukraine.

HumanPenguin, (edited )
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So a fine. And when poverty stricken youngsters fail to pay that fine. Removal directly from their benifits. Or garnish wages.

So basically a cheap pass for the wealthy. Screw the poor as normal.

Edit: What makes this worse. Its just more of the tories trying to ignite another culture war.

They picked on disabled as after 14 years of crap. Few sane disabled people have any hope of voting tory. So let’s use them as a victim to convince everyone they are scroungers.

Now rather then trying to inspire the young to vote tory. They attack them with oxymoron mandatory vollenteer work. In an attempt to win back boomer votes who see all youth entitled and as in need of teaching a lesson.

Rather then admit the harm the last 40 plus years of voting, has done to the future of our youth.

And honestly as a 53yo. It is not like the current housing costs and climate crap. Has not been predicted since the 1970s. Voters my age and older have been working to ignore this for generations.

HumanPenguin, (edited )
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Assuming all the older folks don’t vote for this crap.

Honestly I’m 53 myself. But many folks older then me are really keen on this. As they were required to do military service up to the 60s. And see it as having been beneficial. (Nostenga is one hell of a drug)

And while I have never been a fan of the idea. (Our military dose not need ill motivated cannon fodder).

Many my age do seem to thinkmits a good idea.

So it may motivate many annoyed tory voters who have been distanced.

Just like the disabled policies and immigration. The tories are basically picking on people that are less likely to vote tory. (The youth) and trying to launch a culture war with folks more likely to vote tory.

So please, do not get to confident. The tories are good at this sort of crap. Do not count them out until they are dead.

And please make every effort to convince your friend they need to vote.

Now even safe seats are no longer safe. Voting for a non tory pole leader in normal tory safe seats. May well kick a tory MP to the kerb.

EDIT: Do not count them out until they are dead.

I just want to make sure no one reads that as a suggestion to kill a tory MP.

While I may not cry if someone did. I want my rear end well and trully covered. So amnin no way recommending such actions.

Seriosly just take thiere jobs on July 4th. Force them to prostitute themselves to the wealthy friends they have been supporting for the last 14 years. Those guys are pretty sick so justice will be served.

HumanPenguin,
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I don’t have the skills.

But now really wish someone would hack a few tory social media accounts. And post claims the fine will be based on the family wealth of the avoider

Tory voters would suffer mass heart attacks when they calculate what it will cost to free their Tarquins.

HumanPenguin,
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Yeah you are correct. My parents were born in the 40s so dad served for a while. But dosent support the idea. So even some of that age are sane. Ish :)

But 90yos do vote. And its not just folks who served. As that was mainly men. But folks who looked at their fathers as examples of the great generation. Etc

I honestly don’t think its a winning strategy. But then a bacon sandwich also should not form a winning strategy. But did.

The arguments are less dumb then the ones that won the AV and brexit referendum. So I’d still say. Dont underestimate the tories.

HumanPenguin,
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Yeah you don’t need the oxy. Its just normal tory crap. But they have a habit of making their moronic claims work.

HumanPenguin,
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We sorta do in the UK. Cameron set one up with his big society claim. He even claimed he’d consider making it mandatory for teenagers.

Issue is it is funded as well as any service under the tories.

HumanPenguin,
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Honestly not that likely. As courts can order a garnesment.

Fines nowadays tend to result in taking from you benifits or wages. Of course costs the poor forced into this more.

HumanPenguin,
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Looks like the Labour Party have finally hired…

Have they. Is this an official Labour party post.

HumanPenguin,
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Honestly on a tablet with bad vision atm. So could not tell it was the official channel. Thanks for confirming.

Honestly I am just surprised starmers party has the currage to play negative this early. I def grinned. And would like to see more of this sort of thing.

I just think letting creative folks less connected with the party is more effective in many ways.

Need to head home and repair my desktop PC so I can enjoy the next 6 weeks at this rate. ;)

HumanPenguin,
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Sorta cool but risky. As tories can claim its a lie. IE no one is forced towards the military under their policy(yet).

So the most dishonest party can claim Labour is being dishonest with voters. Something tories are very good at is whataboutism to distract their own actions. Their voters seem tuned to it.

Labour are almost better of letting the voters and party members have their own fun. And unofficially encouraging MP candidates to link.

HumanPenguin,
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Tory voters fell for bacon sandwich bullshit.

And many of the traditional tory safe seat voters. Are very prown to whataboutism as an argument.

The tory party are good at distraction politics.

Some silly distractive comment or mean is almost garrenteed to be what narrows the gap in the last 2 weeks.

Seriosly over confidence in shy tory voters learning their lesson. Really is something to take care over. At 53yo I have spent far far to much time under tory governments that more then 50% of voters hate.

Tories are good at this crap.

HumanPenguin,
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Agree fully.

Just dose not seem to match the caution we have seen from starmers labour.

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