PugJesus

@PugJesus@lemmy.world

Alt of PugJesus for ensuring Fediverse compatibility and shit

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PugJesus,

You aren’t wrong.

PugJesus,

AI bots and paid actors are the exception, rather than the rule.

Now, useful idiots who amplify the talking points pushed by paid actors? Those are a dime a dozen.

PugJesus,

I guess where we disagree is probably more at how common certain talking points become. We, as social creatures, naturally adopt the mannerisms and at least some of the outlooks of our communities - thus, sowing specific points of view in a niche community is a very cost-effective and practical way of amplifying propaganda.

Of course, as the saying goes, “You are not immune to propaganda”. It’s something we all must be aware of, lest we become (or remain) useful idiots ourselves.

PugJesus,

Politically, human dignity is important to me. There is room for that discussion of humanity and autonomy, but it’s certainly not foremost of all. Human dignity cannot manifest if we begin and end conversations by calling into question whether there’s a human capable of making decisions on the other end of the line.

You’re a very genial individual. I don’t know how you do it, honestly. Keep up the good fight!

PugJesus,

They remember, and they want it back. They’re fascists who are too cowardly to claim the label - which is impressive, as fascists are generally pretty cowardly to begin with.

PugJesus,

You’ve catalyzed a huge cohort of people against your position and approach. Do you see how many people are becoming activated and joining the conversation just to strike you down?

Oh damn, you’ve got me, let me check the ratios along these comments

Still waiting for you to tell me how Palestine will win Biden 12 percentage points, in your view.

PugJesus,

I mean you are the one arguing in favor of genocide bro, not me.

Oh, okay, so now you agree that it is necessary that Biden is elected, and that playing games with “It’s actually completely okay that you’re voting third-party, I’m so proud of you 😊” games is actually dumb as shit. Glad we’re in agreement now, shame it took you so long to come around.

You are the one arguing that we shouldn’t bring our criticisms forwards

When did I say that? Feel free to quote me.

By supporting a politician with bad policies, you are setting them up to lose the election. He can’t win if he continues supporting this genocide. He has to shift his position, and the only leverage we have right now is to withhold our support.

Ah, yes, the only way we can ensure Biden WINS the election is by doing everything we can to ensure Biden LOSES the election. Fucking brilliant. Next we’ll play chicken on the railroad tracks.

PugJesus,

So if I present to you evidence that voting uncommitted in the primary isn’t evidence of intent to withhold their vote in the general, you’ll withdraw your position?

Still waiting for you to tell me how he’s going to gain 12 percentage points from an issue that is one of the lowest rated on voter’s important issues.

PugJesus,

ts just incredibly clear that you actually don’t care about Biden winning this election at this point.

If you did, you would withhold your support

I couldn’t make it up if I tried.

PugJesus,

We only have to eat genocide if we choose not to send the food back

What was your plan to send the food back and ensure that the genocide buffet wasn’t returned in response, again? Was it “We’re going to say ‘no’ very firmly despite 48 of the 100 people at this table eagerly voting for the genocide buffet”?

PugJesus,

So you have nothing in response except to repeat yourself despite the objections raised. Unsurprising.

PugJesus,

Frankly i’m hoping the chef cares enough about that possibility that he serves up something different

Pretty big hope to lay on a chef who knows that a little genocide is already popular with a significant portion of the 52 other people on the table.

Pretty long odds to make on the lives of millions of people.

I really think it’s the customers basic obligation to at least say ‘whatever the chef recommends BUT ABSOLUTELY NO GENOCIDE’

We absolutely should say that. But when the chef comes out, and if it’s a genocide sandwich, and the only other option if we send it back is that the chef opens up the genocide buffet for the the 48 customers at the table drooling at the prospect…

You have to know when to bite the bullet.

If you’re not at least saying that idk what to tell you, you’re probably gonna get genocide

Man, I’m sittin’ here saying that Israel is committing one of the greatest crimes of the 21st century. I’ve called it a genocide, I’ve said even passive support of it is a stain on America’s collective soul, I’ve advocating for boycotts, removal of ALL aid, just about everything short of a no-fly zone over the AO - and fucking honestly, if the ongoing conflict in Ukraine wasn’t a current concern, I’d be advocating for that too.

But when it comes down to it, if my choices are ‘less genocide’ or ‘more genocide’, I’m not going to tell anyone voting for ‘more genocide’ that their choice is OK and I understand and forgive them for sending me and my loved ones to the camps. Like, maybe if it was a question of “It’s you and your’s, or me and mine”, I could understand and forgive that, but it’s not. Trump’s genocide here and in Ukraine will not alleviate the Palestinian genocide; he will, in fact, intensify it. There’s no excuse. And I’m not going to pretend there is.

PugJesus,

and then you’re saying “but i’ll fucking DEVOUR that genocide if you serve it up to me anyway, and i’ll get all my friends to commit to eating it too”

Because the alternative is the genocide buffet. Have you already forgotten that?

Woops, you’ve already accepted defeat to genocide there. Even your performative outrage isn’t all that strong, if you’re eager to move past the choice Biden has to not serve it to you.

Cool, instead the backup chef comes out. It’s Trump. Genocide buffet, including the sandwich we rejected. So glad that we’ve made things worse for no gain. Great job, us. Maybe a little circlejerk before we’re taken out and executed will lift our spirits.

PugJesus,

Thank you! Mostly I’m just trying to express my frustration in a way that is coherent and (hopefully) in some way productive.

PugJesus,

Then let’s fucking storm the kitchen then?

Are you actually ready to do that?

Obviously you don’t have to answer, but if you are not ready to do that, or you think that it will end in failure, then harm reduction is the only moral choice.

If you’re ready to fight and die for a better world, if you think peace has run its course, if you think only political violence can resolve the issue and that the resulting death toll will be less horrific than the currently proposed one, then by all means. But if you are not ready - if you think the polity is not ready, if you think there are other, preferable routes to explore, if you think the death and suffering will be worse than either of the current options - you must sit down and bite the bullet.

I’m not of the opinion that a long and bloody civil war which has a high chance of resulting in one or several fascist states in the former USA arising while our allies themselves struggle with emerging far-right movements inspired by the violence in the USA and the provocation of far-right states in the world is worth me expressing moral disgust with support of a genocidal state at this point in time. The calculus of suffering there is horrendously lopsided, and not in favor of starting a civil war. If it’s Biden, complete with support of a genocide, or civil war, I pick Biden as the choice which causes the least human suffering.

PugJesus,

Ignoring the extended period of a united front breaking apart because the leader of the KPD was a Soviet puppet isn’t exactly “an issue in 1919 wasn’t mended 😔”

PugJesus,

I have no particular dog in this fight; I’m out of my depth now in terms of what happened and who was at fault. My point is, those bitter divisions and arguments and the justifications for them that you’re talking about – however you want to allocate blame for them between the SDP and KPD – didn’t do either of them a lick of good when the NSDAP started kicking down doors and shooting them both in the back of the head, and that’s relevant to the upcoming US election.

No, it didn’t. Which is why I’m all-in on making sure that the NSDAP doesn’t win this election.

PugJesus,

You seem pretty content to let countless Gazans die to possibly prevent you facing oppression here.

Yep, because Trump has committed to stopping the Gazan genoci-

Wait, what’s that?

Oh, he’s actually said he wants MORE dead Gazans?

Huh.

The solution is guwtting leftists into supporting genocide, but to get the Democrats to oppose genocide.

It’ll be great if they do. I plan on raising awareness as much as I can about the atrocities in Gaza. But if it comes down to it, and Biden is still in support of Israel come election day, I’m not dumb enough to vote for MORE genocide for EVERYONE.

PugJesus,

The music is unironically good, though, unlike brownshirt fash trash. GRENADA, GRENADA, GRENADA MOYA!

PugJesus,

See, the issue comes when “plenty to do” ends up with “justifying allowing fascism”, as a glance down any of these threads will show is a common position. “If Biden doesn’t change his position, he DESERVES to lose”; of course, the deaths Trump will cause is irrelevant; minorities must die to punish the old fucks in the DNC. There is an approach on a deontological level that is fucking insane from a utilitarian standpoint, and it’s not something that I feel warrants standing by silently about.

On here, on Lemmy, fucking no one is in favor of Israel, except that one weirdo who got himself banned from 2/3s of the communities on here. Thank the gods. “Genocide bad” is already accepted; what is sometimes missed is “A Trump election implies a significant increase in genocide”, which is why I beat the drum on here. I’ve seen leftists on here (by no means representative of all leftists, not even all Lemmy leftists, I know) say things as repulsive, nonsensical, and varied as:

  • America deserves genocide anyway for supporting genocide, so it’s okay if Trump wins
  • Trump winning will spark a left-wing revolution, so everything will be better in the end
  • Trump actually isn’t any different than Biden, and won’t kill any significantly greater number of people
  • A personal moral stand is worth the lives of millions of minorities and leftists
  • As long as the moderates are taught a lesson, it’s worth it

As long as I see those opinions regularly pop up outside of .ml and like instances, I will continue beating the “Vote for Biden you dumb fucks” drum over the “Genocide is BAD you dumb fucks” drum that I would favor when interacting with the general American population.

PugJesus,

Their deaths easily left a power vacuum that was filled by soviet leaning german communists, most especially after 1922 when the civil war ended and the soviets emerged victorious. While some of the prominent german communists that werent russian soviets… were dead.

Yet the period of the United Front between the KPD and SPD lasted from '23 to '28. The idea that it was an organic change because of deep-seated grudges is extremely questionable even just by the timeline, much less the details of the interactions of the 20s and early 30s.

PugJesus,

No, and I can provide data if you’re interested.

PugJesus,

We’re more popular in most of those countries than most European countries are - a lot of bad blood in colonialism there.

Western Euro countries approval of the US tend to vary wildly according to recent events, while Eastern Europe outside of the Russian sphere tends to approve highly of the US despite a significant gap on social issues.

PugJesus,

Honestly trump would probably just ignore them altogether,

Jesus fucking Christ.

PugJesus,

I do it for the low, low price of not being sent to a concentration camp with my family under a fascist regime.

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