You’re right, I can’t do much. But to say nothing we do matters is contrary to the evidence we have. Biden has gone from full throated support of Israel, to calling for a humanitarian pause, to warning them that their actions are dissolving support for them around the globe. A majority of Americans support a cease-fire, and that’s bipartisan support, republicans and democrats. The pressure is working, and no one should let up until the genocide is halted.
But suppose I concede that nothing I do will change anything, even collectively. All that means is that we’re set for WWIII. The Middle East is not going to watch the genocide of 2 million people happen without themselves retaliating. So, it’s either, we convince Israel to stop peacefully, or we risk the safety and security of the entire planet because some ethno-nationalists decided this was the perfect excuse to enact their Final Solution and we decided to fund it without any questions.
Israel is always begging for us to support them, their vile terrorist unhinged actions will make that argument super hard next round. Dems will control the Senate, House, and POTUS and they will not want to have dead kids all over their signatures and families from Israeli actions. They did this to themselves, they could have gone after Hamas instead of kids.
Hamas is pretty comfortable with using human shields. Im pretty sure their hq is under Gaza’s largest hospital for precisely this reason. So yeah actually both columns are correct. When you fire off rockets from the roof of a residential building it is literally an enemy position as well as a residential building. I’m not defending the IDF in any way, but Hamas doesn’t choose their positions randomly.
They’ve returned land to the Palestinians and pulled out settlers multiple times through that 75 years, yet Palestine goes right on back to attacking them.
As the government of Palestine, and with broad support from the Palestinian people, and From Palestine, using Palestinians buildings as staging grounds.
Israel is being attacked by Palestine, and Palestinian civilians are dying because of it.
There has never been a Palestine, The area was part of the Persian empire, Greek Empire, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, etc, and the Arabic people living there came and went. There is no Palestinian homeland, and very few people in Palestine can trace their ancestry back generations in that region, with many of them going there after world war 1
The Land of Palestine: A Brief Overview Palestine is a geographical region located in the Eastern Mediterranean, bordered by modern-day Israel, Jordan, and Lebanon. It is part of the broader area known as the Levant, which has been a crossroads of various civilizations throughout history.
Before 1948, Palestine was home to a diverse population of Arabs, Jews, and Christians, as all groups had religious ties to the area, especially the city of Jerusalem. The land itself was under the control of various empires, such as the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, and eventually the Islamic Caliphate and the Ottoman Empire.
Yes let’s not blame Hamas for building their bases in these places. Let’s not acknowledge that Hamas is still launching rockets every day at cities full of civilians. Let’s ignore that Hamas exclusively targets civilians. Let’s avoid that. Let’s only blame Israel.
Note the keyword there: only
This is what happens when fake leftists apply their aesthetic politics to everything. They start unironically doing apologism for terrorist governments.
Should Israel have never supported Hamas to undermine Palestine? Absolutely. Should we be apologizing for Hamas’ war crimes? No.
Why is it that when Jews defend themselves from vicious terrorist attacks, relentless wars, and a region of the world that considers extermination of Jews as a reasonable political position we sit over here and see them as white occupiers in a land that best we can tell was originally theirs and traded hands dozens of times inbetween. Even the Palestinians there drove out the Turks at the end of WWI. Where is the justice for them?
Why is does that gets down voted? Every Time someone says: “Hey Hamas is also doing atrocious things, lets blame both!” People get so ridiculously pissed off. And I have no Idea why.
But I’m with you on this one! Fuck Hamas. They are Terrorist and the civilians of Palestine deserve so much more then these bastards.
Yeah Fuck the Warsaw uprising. There’s no Reason to ever rise up against your oppressors. They should be content to go through the legal process to change things. Israel has never committed actions that make peaceful protest impossible, like shooting over 3000 Palestinians who were in a peaceful dance off at the edge of their concentration camp. I mean, Israel is only going after Hamas, it’s not like they’ve been systematically bombing the West Bank, where there is no Hamas presence. They’re only going after the leadership, which is why they’re bombing Lebanon, not Gaza, because as we all know, none of Hamas leadership resides in Gaza.
You just set up a pretty Strawmen here. I’ve said nothing about any of this. You just sling this at me with no real connection, so it’s basically angry rambling with nothing inside.
I am concerned about any civilians getting killed or harmed in any way. But you seem to be angry that I say it’s not okay to kill civilians for anyone. Why is that?
Why can’t you just acknowledge that it’s not okay to kill civilians of any kind? Or is it that you just want a special group of civilians killed? Please tell me because now you just seem to support the killing of a group of civilians you don’t like for what reason whatsoever.
Settlers aren’t civilians, they are agents of the state whose express purpose is to colonize and settle lands the settler colonial nation state they represent have claimed. It’s the same reason that the US sent settlers ahead of where they intended to dispossess indigenous groups. It gives a cover for their inevitable escalatory retaliation when the indigenous are forced to turn to violence to protect themselves. These tactics have been analyzed for hundreds of years, and they don’t work on people who actually read history. If you want to be an Israeli civilian, live in Israel’s territory, not the illegally occupied settlements.
But Hamas is not only targeting settlers. Even IF they were agents, which is just a complete exaggeration. So again, why don’t you say killing civilians is wrong? Why do you want to defend people who willingly target them?
It’s not only not an exaggeration, it’s a clearly stated intention of settler colonist societies. Maybe read some history books, I can recommend a few.
Do you condemn the Warsaw Uprising? They didn’t target only Nazis, so they must have been unjustified, right?
You know what? I don’t feel like dealing with you. You will not change your mind and neither do I. And both of us can’t change a thing about this war. So I’m done with you.
Oh fugg off with this whataboutism. No shit fuck Hamas. I don’t know anyone who actually support them except fringe, terminally online leftists. As Palestinian civilians (read: children) die people decry and ask dO yOu ConDemN HaMas?! I watched a video after one of the, bombings by israel, of people transported injured on a mattress. One of the individuals was a child with their head blown open. A fucking child.
Do you condemn Israel?!? Do you condemn Israel??? Do you condemn Israel???
If this was America people would be going so hard against Israel. But of course they need to “defend” themselves from the Palestinian children. They have to bomb hospitals, ambulances, refugee camps, schools, and murder journalists.
The only proof they have given was a 3D render of the tunnels under a hospital. No documents, videos, nothing has been provided to us. Just their word.
Half the people in this thread accept it, seemingly so they can argue some nebulous counterpoint. The tunnels and bases under hospitals can’t exist and not exist at the same time.
Probably, that’s the conclusion I came to also. Or maybe the original was for the company that made the template and they didn’t want to make people think that company made it made the meme? Idk.
Genuine question - What would the realistic solution be?
I'm by no means absolving Israel. The voices of their government alone show that they don't even try to prevent civilian casualties. But of the top of my head I don't exactly see a solution. For example putting a foot on the ground would provoke their neighbors. They can't just ignore Hamas either.
A one state solution that results in the dissolution of the state of Israel entirely and the creation of a new state where Arabs aren’t held as second class citizens, where both groups live under the same laws and are prosecuted in the same Justice system.
Mate, they’ve tanks circling Gaza city the ships sailed for provoking neighbours and they’ve already provoked Jordan by bombing ambulances, aid convoys, hospitals and schools.
Israel funded Hamas and their policies basically created them. They’re an easier target for westernes than the secular PLO. Maybe the solution is ending apartheid and the illegal occupation? Maybe, and I know this is really crazy but, bombing the shit out of a group of people isn’t going to lead to less retaliation?
Hamas has asked for a ceasefire many times. Also why would they not agree to end the apartheid system? The only reason I could think of would be so they could garner more hate towards Israel. Hmm, but doesn’t that mean that it would be in Israel interest to end it to weaken Hamas?
So why not just end apartheid if hamas benifits from it. Or are you just being vague on purpose?
You do realize you’re just creating a situation where whatever Israel does is always justyfied? They help create a terrorist group, create an open air prison where the people who live there can’t leave and then bomb their schools, hospitals, refugee camps etc. Always with the excuse that Hamas might be there. So what’s the excuse for murdering Shireen Abu Akleh in cold blood? Or for the settler colonialism in the west bank? What is about colonialism you don’t understand that leads to more and more violence?
Let me get my magic wand and end apartheid. Yes, there, it’s done.
I do not realize I am creating a situation that Israel is justified. You filled in that information. All I said is Hamas uses human shield, what is the solution?
Eh. The problem is that the solution would have needed to be started implementation years ago. Israel isn't exactly working hard to build bridges with Palestinians (not since Camp David Accords). It's this persisted culture of animosity that leads Gazans to see no reason to pick Israel over Hamas. It's the same in any counterinsurrection or occupation situation -- you need to work on hearts and minds, or you're going to be repelled.
If Israel built inroads into Palestinian people with the olive branch over the arrows, they would stand a far better chance of defeating a group like Hamas. Compare to a group like ISIS, which alienated the people in the places it invaded -- with that tactic, its days were numbered from day one.
If Israel had carried out that non-antagonistic strategy, it would be far easier for Israel and IDF to insert itself into Gaza as a partner, not an overlord, and use more community pressure and even carry out more surgical operations (a la seal team stuff) in open daylight, rather than lazy brute force like dropping a bomb and, to borrow an American war-hawk idiom, "letting YHWH sort them out."
ceasefire begin talks with the other Palestinian government that isnt Hamas
You can take the power away from Hamas by taking away palestinian people’s reason to be angry. But as it stands, Hamas is literally the Gazan government.
And get bombed yourself by the rockets fired out of said school. Acting like you could easily solve this issue from the comfort of your safe space far from it is asinine.
Well, this claim has been made by Israel, too, as if to say the tunnels are all underneath hospitals. But they showed a quickly made 3D rendering, not proof.
So if someone attacks you and threatens to eradicate everyone in your country and has their rocket launchers on top of hospitals, hides their fighter in refugee camps, and has their operation offices under schools, what do you do:
Nothing
Tell all civilians to leave and bomb schools, hospitals and refugee camps.
The main problem is Hamas using Palestinians as shields. There is almost 0 uproar against Hamas in here. But its their fault Palestinians are dying.
The difference being that Hamas is a terrorist organization who has no ties to our allies. Israel, one of our biggest allies in the middle east, is the one who should be held to a higher standard and should know better than to carpet bomb half the place to kill 10x+ civilians than terrorists.
Yeah its well known by everyone that they hide where they have human shields, this doesn’t make it ok to just ignore the civilians but it explains the high casualtys to a certain extent…
This is actually allowed under the Geneva convention – but I don’t like it. similar how I despise how Israel settlers are occupying the west bank part by part.
Nevertheless, the main problem is Hamas. And only if the Palestinians are able to kick out Hamas (or allow Israel to do it), there will be no peace. Similar how no peace will be achieved with Nethanjahu.
Yeah i don’t like how Israel deals with it as well, but i also don’t see another option, Palestinians kicking Hamas out won’t happen and Hamas has already proven they make people stay with force.
And the settler thing is also not exactly a good thing.
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