tknarr, 12 days ago

@glynmoody Netanyahu isn't going to budge. His policies, and his government's policies, on the subject haven't changed in my lifetime and aren't likely to.

OTOH one thing left out is who's backing Hamas and Hezbollah. That also hasn't changed in my lifetime, all the way back to the PLO/PLA. The Arab states aren't going to budge either.

glynmoody, 12 days ago

@tknarr what a mess

ArneBab, 12 days ago

@glynmoody The recent offer by Egypt, Katar and Israel included release of prisoners incarcerated for life which used to be a red line for Israel (one of the organizers of Oct 7th was such a prisoner, pressed free by Hamas).

So Netanyahu did make compromises, but they did not suffice for Hamas to agree.

Why is it that reports of Hamas rejecting an offer are framed as offering a compromise?

glynmoody, 12 days ago

@ArneBab everyone says hamas has accepted that deal...

ArneBab, 12 days ago

@glynmoody The four articles I read on it said that Hamas accepted a deal, but it was not the one the negotiators had written together with Israel.

Israel, Qatar and Egypt created a proposal, but Hamas answered that it wanted changes.

Then Qatar and Egypt (without Israel) gave Hamas a changed proposal that Hamas accepted, but that contained parts Israel rejected.

glynmoody, 12 days ago

@ArneBab it's far too complex for me to know what is going on; I can only point at articles in the hope that they illuminate....

ArneBab, 12 days ago

@glynmoody same here — I don’t know enough details to do more than recognize it when articles are summarized incorrectly.

The article you linked to includes details from both sides (Netanyahu and Hamas), but chose to make the title point out only Netanyahu.

What the article leaves out is genuine fear in Israel that if Hamas comes back in power in Gaza, another Oct 7th is just a matter of time.

That said: there is pressure on Netanyahu, but where’s pressure on Qatar who hosts Hamas leaders?

ArneBab, 12 days ago

@glynmoody The text of the article you linked to is one of the best I’ve read on the topic to date ( https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/07/ceasefire-negotiations-gaza-netanyahu-hamas — thank you for that! ) with the exception of leaving out that defeating Hamas is not just inner politics but is also about a fear that Hamas will repeat its mass murder (but maybe that’s not the main point for Netanyahu, at least not anymore).

It’s just that its title and subtitle do not match the nuanced content that does not pull any punches into any direction.

glynmoody, 12 days ago

@ArneBab ok, thanks

ArneBab, 12 days ago

@glynmoody I had this exact discussion and someone gave me three links that they claimed said that Hamas accepted the deal.

But all three said that the deal wasn’t the one by Israel, Qatar and Egypt, but a changed one by only Qatar and Egypt.