JoshuaHolland,
@JoshuaHolland@mastodon.social avatar

“I have been reporting on political dissent and violent policing for 15 years, particularly in New York City. Compared to Tuesday night, I have never witnessed, at the scene of a protest, the use of police power so disproportionate to the type of demonstration taking place.”

https://theintercept.com/2024/05/01/nyc-gaza-college-protests-police-outside-agitators/

JoshuaHolland,
@JoshuaHolland@mastodon.social avatar

I've covered WTO protests in China and Mexico and the most violent suppression of speech I've ever witnessed was in the US. And it wasn't close.

lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

Yeah I wonder why you haven't seen more violent repression in China

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@lesblazemore China had no proper paramilitary forces or riot police back in 1989, so the military was the only option for backup. The country has since developed such forces so that a massive escalation of violence resulting in something like the June Fourth Incident would never happen again.

Meanwhile, America’s police forces have been expanding and militarising at an alarming rate. It’s not surprising that things are as bad as they are.

lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc I have no problem with the argument that the US needs to do better and get criticized when it doesn't.

But to compare China...that's just not logical.

Say it's bad, sure. Don't say it's worse than China

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc Sorry. Can’t do that. Won’t do that. I’m tired of this orientalism, tired uninformed people (and American state media) blasting my homeland with nary a clue about what life is actually like there, which is actually far better than you think.

lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc I take it personal because I lived there for many years. If you bother to do the research you wouldn't make such a comparison. It's ignorant.

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc Lived where? China? Or America?

lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc I'm American, and lived in China for a long period.

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar
lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc No I left 8 years ago, like many expats, luckily before the virus arrived.

The situation there got worse and worse. XJP is hardcore, a true believer, and I don't mean that in a good way

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc Forgive me, but I disagree. The Anglophone West (US, UK, Canada, and Australia) has been culturally stagnant for decades, innovation is deadlocked by oligopolistic corporations, and all essential infrastructure is failing. The propaganda here paints a picture of a failing state desperately clinging onto the edifice of a glorified, mythical past. That’s what gets to me the most; the angry, fearful propaganda that permeates all media.

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc Chinese propaganda is, by contrast, hopeful and makes you want to believe that a better world is possible. And, looking at the state of their massive high-speed rail network, rapidly advancing technology, and smart city planning, a better world is indeed possible. Can’t we have that, at least? What is a marginally freer population with fewer restrictions on personal freedoms if there is no hope for the future?

lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc Over the last decade, rights for Chinese have gotten worse. They held up blank pieces of paper in Shanghai to communicate that they don't have any rights.

Of course the propaganda is nicer, meanwhile labor rights barely exist in China. People do protest and they get long jail sentences. I could go into detail.

It's great that we criticize the US when it fails to hold up its standards, but in China no one believes there are any standards.

https://www.newsweek.com/china-white-blank-paper-a4-revolution-covid-protests-1762736

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc And you believe there are such standards in America? I guess when white people protest quarantine and mild inconveniences, but not when anyone else protests racism and police brutality.

lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc I think what you should understand is that America's dirty laundry is out for everyone to see. If someone makes a video, we see it, the local police can't suppress it.

And that's the important note, that with the US we get to see everything, bad and good.

China has thousands of political prisoners, from Uighur professors to labor organizers. Any protest leads to long jail sentences for the 'organizers'.

Here's just one example, a scientist suppressed:

https://apnews.com/article/covid19-scientist-virus-sequence-protest-laboratory-eviction-b54e2a88610e813c9383833f2c9a2379

lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc Just one example, my friend. The US goes over the line a lot, and we should complain 100%. Prisoners are treated poorly, illegal workers are exploited. We also know the bad history of the FBI, reporting on internal dissent and much worse.

But all of that is far and away different from countries like China and many others, where the law is a joke and a tool to be used by the powerful.

May I ask where you are from? Just as to your perspective on world politics.

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc The law is exactly like that and in most countries. That’s just a consequence of people blindly accepting the unjust social hierarchies that prevent the rule of law from ever being a reality. Trump’s trial is the clearest evidence of the special privileges endowed upon certain classes of people in America.

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc The only reason I think China is slowly becoming better than America is because that if I were to move there, then at least I wouldn’t be subjected to the country’s racism. It’s a cowardly thing, I know, but I’m also tired of nothing changing.

lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc yes it's frustrating, that's actually why I left the US, in part. I still pay attention but prefer not to be inundated with the bs.

But the comparison is stark today about where you are free and where you are not. Russia has zero freedom of speech, as does China.

The rich keep there money in western countries, why? Safety. They are not the same tbf, rule of law does matter.

GreenFire,
@GreenFire@mstdn.social avatar

@lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc
I watched Hong Kong democracy protests and compared to the police response to these happening on our campuses they seemed much worse. I think that there are people trying to make more people believe that the USA is the Great Satan like Iran says it is.

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@GreenFire @lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc That, by the way, was the “proper” police response I was expecting from the Capitol Insurrection. That’s what should have happened, but as I said, only the law only applies to certain classes of people.

lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc @GreenFire wait you're happy with the HK police approach to the protests Enoch?

yes Kevin there are those trying i agree.

GreenFire,
@GreenFire@mstdn.social avatar

@lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc
People like Enoch are it seems since he's trying to blame Joe Biden for things that Trump is guilty of doing.

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@GreenFire @lesblazemore @enoch_exe_inc Nah, I’m just disappointed with America. It’s not Joe Biden’s fault that he inherited the messes of his predecessor, and his predecessor’s predecessors, and so on. But he could have at least, for example, shut down the border internment camps. Or repaid more student loans. Or do literally anything to stop the terrifying mainstreaming of the alt-right. But he didn’t, hasn’t, and probably won’t.

thepoliticalcat,
@thepoliticalcat@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc @GreenFire @lesblazemore What planet are you living on? He has done SO MUCH to right this country, and instead of appreciation he gets nitpicking? Student loans benefit approximately 16% of the population. If a Republican held that office, you'd be paying your loans till they put you in the grave. I don't think you've ever held an actual job where you have responsibility for executing a project from start to finish.

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@thepoliticalcat @enoch_exe_inc @GreenFire @lesblazemore Well, you see, about that…I’m not American. I’m from beyond your borders…in the country up north. By the way, more Americans illegally enter Canada than Mexicans into America.

thepoliticalcat,
@thepoliticalcat@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc @GreenFire @lesblazemore None of which is responsive to my question, and it's true, your ignorance about this country should've been a giant clue. In the event, have a good day, and enjoy fighting the RWNJ on your own time.

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@thepoliticalcat @enoch_exe_inc @GreenFire @lesblazemore Was it too much to have to infer that Canada is a country on Earth?

thepoliticalcat,
@thepoliticalcat@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc @GreenFire @lesblazemore I've actually been to Canada, and to the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Europe, parts of Asia. In fact, I've driven around parts of Canada. But I don't have patience, any more. Bye now.

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@thepoliticalcat @enoch_exe_inc @GreenFire @lesblazemore Speculate about me all you want, but answer me this: what has he actually done for your country? I’m not actually sure because the only reason America shows up in the news is whenever there’s a mass shooting, when the Supreme Court makes a horrifying new ruling, or when a war America started is either going really badly or killing a lot of people.

GreenFire,
@GreenFire@mstdn.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc @thepoliticalcat @lesblazemore
Joe Biden has done so much for the USA and the globe that it's a long list. Stopping Putin from lobbing nukes is great I hope we can agree on, but his efforts that have started the world's largest economy's transition away from fossil fuels has got to be his biggest achievement considering what an existential threat climate change is for sure.

For example, this one new rule might not seem big, but it will lead to big changes https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/05/01/2024-08196/clean-energy-for-new-federal-buildings-and-major-renovations-of-federal-buildings

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@GreenFire @enoch_exe_inc @thepoliticalcat @lesblazemore That’s the threat of mutually assured destruction, not Biden. Also, every state that has ever given up its nuclear weapons has been subsequently invaded by the United States, so it’s no surprise that North Korea absolutely refused to give up theirs.

GreenFire,
@GreenFire@mstdn.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc @thepoliticalcat @lesblazemore
Now we can tell that you're just a troll spreading lies to smear the USA. Do you call it the Great Satan or what term is Xi trying to get y'all to use?

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar

@GreenFire @enoch_exe_inc @thepoliticalcat @lesblazemore I can assure you I’m not. I’m just a tired and cynical Canadian sitting on the very broken pedestal that I once put the United States on. And you—I don’t know what you believe, but as long as it helps you sleep better at night, I guess

GreenFire,
@GreenFire@mstdn.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc @thepoliticalcat @lesblazemore
I'm particularly glad of his along with his successful efforts to weaken Putin and the other enemies of democracy, but here's a longer list of some of Joe Biden's achievements for you.

thepoliticalcat,
@thepoliticalcat@mastodon.social avatar

@enoch_exe_inc I don't waste time with unserious people. Please educate yourself if you want to with someone else's free labor, not mine. Have a good day. @GreenFire @lesblazemore

enoch_exe_inc,
@enoch_exe_inc@mastodon.social avatar
absinthe,
@absinthe@mastodon.cloud avatar

@thepoliticalcat
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