[Discussion] Overly Lax Instance moderation here

before people criticize me I am not using my main account because I do not feel safe bringing up these issues there, as these people and issues still are not dealt with. I do not want to put myself in danger, I will not be engaging in or attempting to post polls or votes here.

I would like to start by saying that I’ve noticed a lot of bad faith or spammy communities pop-up recently. The user is dramaticcat many of the communities break rules 1 and 2, maybe even rule 3 (an example of one such community is !kiwifarms) as they are purely dedicated to hatred, trolling, and possibly even spam.

Also a small handful of users have also been making threats or calls to violence and while these have been moderated nicely moderators and external instance admins the admins of this instance haven’t done anything about this. This is worrying as admins are supposed to enforce the instance rules and remove disruptive users and communities who are in violation of said rules but the admins of Sh.itjust.works have not been doing that. This is a problem because it means that any malicious actor could join at any time and wreak havok on this instance just like Exploding-heads did on another unmoderated instance known as rammy.site way back when. We obviously know how that went.

It’s important that we discuss this problem now while we might have a chance of contacting the admins rather than later when the damage has been done.

Estiar,

There’s a porn community on the instance and a community that has one person posting antisemitic videos mixed in with other stuff. I’ve blocked both communities, but they still exist on the instance

priapus,

The community you linked is a shitposting community. The name of the community being the same as the site is the joke. There is no hateful content in the community.

InEnduringGrowStrong,
@InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with the admins or mods in any way.
My gut reaction is that they’re doing a decent job, but are probably stretched too thin.

It is my understanding that @TheDude focuses mostly on administrating the server infrastructure itself, and nuking the occasional extremes like CSAM.

Then, of the 3 OG Agora mods who were voted on way back then… @Difficult_Bit_1339 and @Seraph089 haven’t been active in months, leaving @imaqtpie seemingly holding the fort by themselves.
Or maybe they’re using alts, and work in the shadows, idk.

I have no clue about any of the other admins listed on the homepage:
@donut
@smorks
@biela
@MichelleG
I have no info on them.

In my experience so far, our mods/admins took action when serious things were brought to their attention.
The challenge, I think, is mostly in bringing it to them.

Realistically, they can’t be everywhere and read every comment and they’re probably already stretched thin.
My guess is they probably need help? and/or better tools? (I don’t think Lemmy has much in the way of moderation tools yet.)

If you have any specifics, I’d gladly assist in reporting.

As for !kiwifarms, strictly speaking, I don’t think literal kiwis are rulebreaking and that community has a single post about actual kiwis?
Now, Googling the name does turn up some 8chan spin-off harassment stuff, so I think it’s at least a poor choice of a community name and possibly something worth discussing. (Not unlike how /c/the_donald was banned in the early days even though it wasn’t strictly breaking the rules “yet”).

If you’re uneasy sharing specifics through here, I can respect that and you should also know that lemmy DMs aren’t secure whatsoever.
As such, anything more sensitive should probably be discussed over Matrix.

You can find a few people’s matrix handles on their profile page by clicking on the “Send Secure Message” button, I know I’ve reached TheDude and imaqtpie through there before.

While I’m not an admin or mod, you can still reach out to me on matrix if there are specifics you’d rather not post here or just wanna discuss.

Now… I certainly realize sending you on another platform sucks, but the current implementation of lemmy DMs is not something I would personally trust to discuss harassment or any serious personal stuff.

dramaticcat, (edited )

Now, Googling the name does turn up some 8chan spin-off harassment stuff, so I think it’s at least a poor choice of a community name and possibly something worth discussing.

Yea I agree, the admins can feel free to ban it, I wanted it to be an ironic community about actual kiwis and not the infamous site.

InEnduringGrowStrong, (edited )
@InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

(FYI, You weren’t yet named when I wrote that wall of text)

Digging into this, it seems like a textbook use case for the block feature.

I still think sh.itjust.works admins probably need help though, but this seems easily resolved by the block feature.
I know I’ve blocked many people whom I didn’t wanna interact with where they weren’t necessarily breaking the rules.

antik,
@antik@lemmy.world avatar

MichelleG is an alt of @MichelleG who is active, she’s one of the Lemmy World admins and was added by TheDude on sh.itjust.works to remove spam (or worse) accounts. That’s about all her involvement with the instance as well.

InEnduringGrowStrong,
@InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

Thanks, that makes sense, I’m expecting some of them to be alts or working in the shadows, which is fine.
I’m not sure how many admin are browsing here regularly.
Lemmy also kinda lacks a “report community” feature.
As is, you can report posts or comments but the community moderator would see it when you report them, which might not always be ideal with more egregious communities.
Reaching through Matrix worked fine in my experience though.

imaqtpie,
@imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works avatar

It’s pretty much just me and TheDude. And I have been much less active in the past few weeks. I want to recruit a couple more people to help but I haven’t gotten around to it.

Your actions in this thread are putting you in contention 😅

TheDude,

@InEnduringGrowStrong in the perfect world community admins should be moderating their communities and the site admins should only be called upon when there is community abuse or when community mods are not doing any moderation.

As @antik mentioned below @MichelleG is an alt account for same person on lemmy.world ans she has provided tons of help to this instance.

You are right about one thing, I am currently stretched really thin. If made a list of all my responsibilities I think it would shock a lot of you. That being said the amount of time it takes to run a community is astonishing and running a community well requires a lot more time than I have left to give. There is still a lot of work needed to be spent on this site.

The admins of this site help a huge amount as is mostly due to them that we are still running but I don’t want to dump more onto their plates.

I could use a lot more help in all areas (system administration, community moderation, legal revision, moving to accepting donations).

If anyone is interested in helping reach out on Matrix.

InEnduringGrowStrong,
@InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yea, I don’t mean to criticize anyone’s work here.
Just keeping the server running and updated is already a lot in itself. (BTW thanks for 0.18.5)

There are a few mods we haven’t seen in months, maybe some are helping behind the curtain, maybe others moved on, in which case that’s more work on your collective plates.

Community mods you can trust would definitely be something worth its weight in gold. In theory, if every community moderated itself, then the admin load would be much less. The odds of that happening when anyone can create a community is doubtful, but then limiting that also comes with its own drawbacks.
Can’t really win.

Then you all have lives and jobs too and that’s taking time away from that for little personal benefit.

To all the admins and mods involved: Thanks.

It’s something we never take the time for, but thanks for all you’re doing.

Me? I’m a network engineer by day, and well — an overworked network engineer by night, I guess.
I’m of a nature to help out but I don’t always have much juice left at the end of the day and can’t guarantee how much I could actually commit.

Meanwhile, I try to help in small ways, occasionally reaching out about the more egregious stuff (which is usually acted upon quickly by the team).

(I have worked about 30h in the last 36 hours, so I might not be the most coherent)

Again, thanks for all the work it takes to even have this website up at all.

dramaticcat,

?

Cockmaster6000,

I won’t name the person

What do you expect to be done if your complaint lacks any information which can result in action by instance mods and admins?

Rosethewitch8345,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Cockmaster6000,

    They’re a dedicated shit poster for sure, but rule breaking? idunno

    InEnduringGrowStrong, (edited )
    @InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

    That’s really a good use case for the block feature.

    Rosethewitch8345,

    aaand this is how you know that valid concerns are being treated as if they are worthless feelings or opinions, great job guys (I know that there are for real whiny people like this but seriously).

    InEnduringGrowStrong,
    @InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I just spent 20 minutes writing a wall of text about this exact thing, so no I didn’t think I was being dismissive?

    Text is sometimes a poor medium…
    I’m not saying “shut up and just block them”, I’m saying “sure, let’s talk, but know that you can block them in the meantime”

    I’ve blocked dozens of people who weren’t outrageously breaking rules but whom I wanted nothing to do with.
    There’s nothing inherently wrong with blocking.

    Rosethewitch8345,

    Okay fair enough. Text can be a very poor medium.

    Also it’s a bit frustrating because I bring up something that is potentially a serious problem to the health of the instance, because getting defederated or even raided (dramaticcat might not get us raided or widely defederated but our other user who I’ve disclosed to the admins but not publicly for my own safety might). So obviously it’s imperative that I not block either of them on this account.

    For the record I do block people on my main account (and did block them there), I block a lot of people and communities (probably will do instances when that’s available), it’s also kind of the point of why I’m doing it here and not on my main (that and I don’t want death threats, DDoS, and Porn sent to me, again dramaticcat isn’t my main concern with that one, the unnamed user is, I decided to bring two issues at once because I figured people would think I was dog-piling to bring them up in separate issues (I’ll make a note not to do it again in the future).

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