Reminder: Engaging in political debates is encouraged, insulting and attacking other users is not.

Insulting or attacking other users, even so much saying "fuck you", "fuck [this group of people]", "you're an idiot" or anything like that while debating IS against the rules of Lemmy.ml. This goes for every political view, you DO NOT get free passes no matter if you're leftist, rightist, communist, anarchist, liberal, etc. If you're confident of your position you should be able to debate in a civil manner without cursing someone else out. I understand that debates can get heated and frustrating, hell I've debated with a good bunch of users, but you can still express that without resorting to name calling or insults.

Check the modlog, we HAVE removed replies of this nature from every political view, and even if we don't say it every time, we DO keep track of both removals per user and general behaviour even if it doesn't get removed, and too many infractions WILL result in a ban.

That said, it is NOT against the rules to present countering facts or opinions, or to have political opinions in general. Don't report comments for "being pro communist" or "being pro China" unless they have broken an actual rule, namely the ones about being civil. Don't attack or insult people from Lemmygrad just because they're from Lemmygrad or they're arguing for Marxism-Leninism or supporting a country you don't. If they're presenting their points in a civil manner (which had been the case for almost everyone from Lemmygrad), you can either read it and respond in kind with your questions or counterpoints, or just move on. People coming over from other instances is not brigading if they're mostly being civil, that's the whole point of federation.

Things people disagree with getting down voted is also acceptable, it's not considered an attack on you if your comment has a negative score, and it doesn't even significantly affect the ranking because of the relatively low comment volumes currently on Lemmy. It's just imaginary internet points, relax.

w_ortiz,

Most people from lemmygrad (and friends) will also insult you by calling you "imperialist" or "liberals", even though you clearly state you are not. I am anticapitalist and anarchist and receive these too often on Lemmy.ml
When various people are doing it to you, in small comments, it is not officially an insult but it's meant the same and it hurts the same. Plus some people are openly calling for this kind of brigading from lemmygrad users, and never receive a ban for it?

I'm grateful to the developers for providing Lemmy software, but you're not addressing the problem here, and it's hurting Lemmy as a serious alternative to Reddit.

AgreeableLandscape,

We have very different definitions for what bigrading is. Simply coming over and providing counterpoints is not brigading if they're not cursing other people out. The whole point of federation is to allow other instances to interact.

My only advice for being called "liberal" or "imperialist" is to not internalize them so much. Do you expect the admins to police every use of the term imperialist and liberal and remove any potentially inaccurate usage? I've been called plenty of things I'm definitely not for being a Marxist-Leninist, including a genocide and cultural cleansing supporter, also imperialist gets dropped on me too for whatever reason, but I honestly just don't care and being called something I know I'm not is not going to shake my views.

I'm not sure what else to tell you other than to block Lemmygrad users or use an instance that doean't federate with them.

comfy,

It really depends on how tightly or loosely we want civility to be enforced from above. Should we be removing all insults, or is that just too heavy-handed? That's a big question, not one I have an answer to, but there are some communities that do say yes, using labels as an insult isn't acceptable. I suspect lemmy.ml doesn't want to be that strict, but somewhere like gtio.io that attempts serious discussion might see that boundary as constructive.

w_ortiz,

Simply coming over and providing counterpoints is not brigading

I'm definitely not talking about that. I'm talking about people stating one-liner comments with no counter points and calling you "imperialist" or "liberal", and throwing it at you like you are a murderer or CIA (which is the same).
If you don't see precisely what I'm talking about, too bad. Others will get that. And move to other instances like I did, sadly.

I have nothing personnal against you though.

comfy,

'Brigading' is when someone gets a group of foreign users to mass-downvote or mass comment on a post. You can confirm this definition with a web search ("brigading forum"). What you're describing is just low effort insulting (which of course is bad and not really acceptable on lemmy.ml in my opinion)

Catradora_Stalinism,

really, being called a "lib" is bad too?

comfy,

It's exactly like calling someone a commie. A dumb unconstructive slur. If you're doing that on a site where liberals are expected to be rejected offensively, like lemmygrad or chapo or leftypol, then sure, but lemmy.ml isn't one of those places.

giffybiss,

It’s exactly like calling someone a commie. A dumb unconstructive slur.

About as dumb and “unconstructive” as these theatrics that you are engaging in, imo. That one gave me a real chuckle.

(Btw, I dunno who convinced you that commie is a slur, but you can call us that if you like. I can’t imagine a single communist who would be offended by that).

comfy,

Slurs don't have to be successfully offensive to be slurs haha. I don't care if someone calls me a commie pinko lefty, or anything worse for that matter. It's about intent.

liwott,

Tbh, this post illustrate pretty well the double standard it tries to denounce.

  • six comments of a user get deleted over the course of two days because they gratuitously insulted the user they were replying to. They do not get any form of ban.
  • a user phrases their (valid) point in a way that is too strong to the point of being insulting to an admin. They get a 3 day ban.

Also, it is pretty clear that the situation with users insulting each other is not as symmetrical as the post makes it up to be. When is the last time someone with no account on Lemmygrad had a comment removed for that reason?

dessalines,

Please report the uncivil comments, and we'll continue to remove them.

w/ respect to that 3-day temp-ban, you can check the modlog, its completely transparent, which is really helpful in this case in particular. The person claimed :

"its clear the admins of lemmy are manufacturing communist mobs", and linked to a post where @AgreeableLandscape supported people debunking anti-communist / mccarthyite propaganda. This is supposedly "evidence of manufacturing mobs."

Obviously someone who attacks the entire mod team with no evidence would be better suited to a specifically anti-communist site like wolfballs or reddit.

Stoned_Ape,

It’s just imaginary internet points, relax.

Honest question: Then why are we having these points? If they are of no actual use, and nobody should care about them, why are they implemented? For what reason?

Ninmi,
@Ninmi@sopuli.xyz avatar

The entire purpose for downvotes in Reddit was to allow people to weed out comments that do not add anything to the conversation, but people of course misused it as an "I disagree" button. All the downvotes contribute is further ruining the conversational culture here by turning them in to gladiator fights of egos. Lemmy is actually just worse than Reddit in this regard when its downvote feature doesn't even have a stated purpose. Lack of downvotes alone is a good reason to support Beehaw.

blkpws,

All the downvotes contribute is further ruining the conversational culture

Sometimes I get downvotes without knowing why and no one is replying me what's wrong with my words. For example, the comment I just write here like you got more downvotes than up votes, does that mean they disagree with me or that I am not adding anything to the conversation? Because I said "I suppose", so it's just my opinion.

So those votes are used for a "disagree" or an "agree" here on Lemmy, right? (not talking about Reddit)

Ninmi,
@Ninmi@sopuli.xyz avatar

Sometimes I get downvotes without knowing why and no one is replying me what's wrong with my words.

Further ruining the conversation when you can simply press a button to devalue someone's opinion without contributing anything yourself.

And yes, they're used as agree/disagree buttons and it cheapens the conversation.

dessalines,

Most big tech platforms have gotten rid of the downvote as well. They only want you to express liking, not disliking.

blkpws,

Sometimes, a crowd of people on internet plays with downvotes, I suppose it's a way to make "wars". I wonder if it could be a good idea to replace the like/dislike with emoji icons... Smile, Happy, Thinking, Heart, Shit poop, etc... To give it more a meaning of reaction than a like/dislike.

dessalines,

The votes are really more about helping sort popular / unpopular content more that anything, so emojis wouldn't help with that.

Without scores or voting, its back to the days of forums where you have to scroll through hundreds of pages to find something decent.

Stoned_Ape,

to find something decent.

What does decent mean? Something popular? Or something with quality content and comments?

blkpws,

I suppose it’s just to say you agree or disagree. So can’t do anything when a crowd from Lemmygard votes bad on all your comments if you don’t support their government or politic discussion.

Catradora_Stalinism,

their government or politic discussion.

So its bad when we disagree, but not when you libs do that.

blkpws,

So its bad when we disagree, but not when you libs do that.

I don’t do that, I rarely vote down… I talk about a lot of stuff, politics, tech, but when I need to talk about Communism and this kind of ideology I always get a crowd of downvotes.

Catradora_Stalinism,

Communism and this kind of ideology I always get a crowd of downvotes.

could it be that you’re just wrong?

blkpws,

Yeah, maybe I am wrong, and need your illumination.

Or maybe a crowd of Communist people (Lemmygrad users) are doing mass votes to this kind of topic.

ram,
@ram@lemmy.ca avatar

It sounds to me like you may just hold some genuinely distasteful opinions. I’ve been “victim” of mass downvoting before, and more often than not it’s a result of me stupidly speaking out of ignorance. Try not doing that, and maybe pay less attention to your internet points and more on the quality of discussion. For instance, you should consider the value of this discussion wherein you tell people how to “properly use” Upvotes/Downvotes from a prescriptive lens.

In my experience, the Upvote/Downvote system generally works in large threads, even if people have their own philosophies by which they choose to use the functions; the very principal of the Wisdom of the crowd is the means by which it functions. Of course when others come to interrupt this by means of brigading/raiding/whatever the current terminology is for this behaviour, things go off kilter, but having a large prescriptive agreement as to how you should go about Upvoting/Downvoting is no cure for intentional disruption.

blkpws,

If you want to call it like this… I already argued with someone once with a long thread and with many details that the other person (Lemmygard comunist defender) couldn’t explain, they just ignored my view of points and my arguments, at this point is when I already decided to just ignore them. This happens with many ideologists, so I don’t talk with “ignorance” and I don’t really care getting downvoted, I know what I talk about and I can see their closed mindsets.

Sorry for the late response, but I didn’t like your accusations to me. Just letting you know.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • announcements@lemmy.ml
  • DreamBathrooms
  • everett
  • osvaldo12
  • magazineikmin
  • thenastyranch
  • rosin
  • normalnudes
  • Youngstown
  • Durango
  • slotface
  • ngwrru68w68
  • kavyap
  • mdbf
  • InstantRegret
  • JUstTest
  • ethstaker
  • GTA5RPClips
  • tacticalgear
  • Leos
  • anitta
  • modclub
  • khanakhh
  • cubers
  • cisconetworking
  • megavids
  • provamag3
  • tester
  • lostlight
  • All magazines
    •