I'm a pedophile. AMA

Disclaimer: like most pedophiles, I have never approached a child with anything sexual or otherwise inapporpriate, and I don’t plan ever to do so. I recognize the harm in such actions, and I don’t want to hurt the very people I love. If you expect AMA with a child molester, this ain’t it.

The account is a throwaway, hope you’ll understand this decision given the sensitivity of the topic.

Edit: Thank you for keeping civil and genuine in your questions. I did envision hostility, yet here you are, amazing as always. Lemmy is a wonderful place to be, thanks to you all!

Edit 2: Apparently we have another brave pedophile here in the comments, and he came with a good note I should include in the post: if you find yourself attracted to minors, that’s okay. Acting on your desires is dangerous, but having them isn’t. If you’d like to have some support and/or community that would help you get your bearings or just listen without any prejudice (we’re all in the same boat), there are places that can help you. Visit VirPed (18+) or MAP Support Club (13+; scroll down for details), or refer to other resources through the MAP Resources website.

Alivrah,

I can’t think of any questions right now because it’s a little bit shocking to see someone openly talking about their pedophilia like this and whle I find it disturbing, I do appreciate the honesty and the willingness to start a conversation on the matter.

While you’re using a throwaway, I’m still somewhat impressed by your courage to do this, and also by everyone else asking legitimate questions.

Verto,

I’m honestly impressed by the latter too, but I guess that’s the magic of Lemmy. I knew one person who tried to spin the conversation on Reddit, and it didn’t go so well.

I know pedophilia is something many people think exists somewhere in the dark, but that’s more the reason to put it out in the light, as meaningful conversations on the topic are crucial - not only for the acceptance of many of those who did nothing wrong, but also for the safety of children, as stigma around the issue is one of the reasons many of us can’t get help that would be very handy, especially for those (still) on the verge.

I appreciate any feedback, including your one. Hit me up with any questions later should you come up with any!

MossMonger,

So, I’m just kind of reading through this here out of intrigue. It’s actually really nice to see how civil and like, chill everyone is being. I can only imagine on a different platform, it would be much easier to get swept up in anger.

My question is kind of specific and I’d understand if you didn’t have an exact answer: I’m going to school soon to become a social worker (may or may not try to specialize in children’s rights) and I was wondering if there was anything you wish social workers would know about pedophiles/pedophilia?

Verto,

I’m not sure if I can provide an answer good enough since I never got involved in social work circles, but I’ll do my best.

Since, I imagine, they work with cases involving children being molested among other things, they may benefit from knowing many (little over 50%, if I recall correctly) child molesters are not pedophiles and may need a different approach based on whatever led them this way. For example, it would be ineffective to apply a prevention program designed for pedophiles to a person who abused a child due to hypersexuality and kids just being easier to take advantage of, and so on.

Same realization can help in noticing more types of behaviors as risk factors.

Also, most pedophiles are extremely hard to spot: we are not staring at kids and licking our lips or something :D We are not all men in our 40’s (in fact, pedophilic thoughts normally arise first during puberty and then last a lifetime), we don’t all wear round glasses and a moustache. In fact, for the most part, there is no need to identify us in the first place since most of us are entirely harmless. And yes, some of the social workers, teachers etc. will undoubtedly be pedophiles, most without any malicious intent.

That’s all I can think of off the back of my head that can be useful. Feel free to ask further questions!

Zippit,

I’m so conflicted. But how would you want society to treat you? And by you, I mean people that haven’t raped, molested or groomed a child, but are struggling with inappropriate feelings towards them?

Saint,

not OP, but also a pedophile. How would you want society to treat you? I want to be seen as a person like any other. I’ve worked hard to love myself with a very difficult sexuality that society would prefer I kill myself over. I’ve never harmed a kid. I never will. I want society to see that people like me exist.

Verto, (edited )

Just treat me like a normal person, not some monster and immediate danger to everyone below 18.

It would be reasonable to check my stance and I wouldn’t mind if someone asked whether I need (and if I do, whether I already have) any help with it, but other than that, I want to be treated no differently whether someone knows I’m a pedophile or not.

I don’t want to receive threats. I don’t want to be stuck with people talking about how they would murder all pedophiles while having to keep my mouth shut. I want to maintain healthy relationship with my adult partners and friends. That’s, essentially, what I ask of society.

Zippit,

Fair enough. I guess keep up the fight and I wish you the best. Thanks for giving us insight.

Verto,

Thanks for being compassionate and understanding :)

kromem,

Have you done any work to attempt to gradually age up your attraction?

Do you seek out age appropriate relationships and engage in age-play to partially satisfy attractions, or do you just not date at all?

Saint,

Hi! I’m not OP, but I am also a pedophile.

What you’re describing is called SOCE “Sexual Orientation Change Efforts” AKA conversion therapy. It doesn’t work for gay people to try to gradually change the gender of the people they’re attracted to, and it doesn’t work for us to try to age up the people we’re attracted to.

Personally, I’ve tried conversion therapy for my being gay (three months at down in the the American South). That went about as well as you’d expect. Maybe a little better in that I’m not horribly mentally and emotionally scarred, I suppose.

For myself, I do seek out other adults, but I do not engage in age-play. It’s not something I need to do to make sex work for me. I don’t even fantasize about children or anything, I just focus on what I’m doing and what my body is feeling and enjoy sex with my partner.

I’m also not an exclusive pedophile. Exclusive pedophiles have a more difficult time with things, though I know of a few that ended up dating other exclusive pedophiles and they make things work with ageplay and mutual fantasy. There are other exclusives that don’t date at all. It can be very lonely being a pedophile.

Verto,

I did at earlier stages, but yeah, it doesn’t really work, especially since my attraction to girls which is still my main already goes well into my comfortable adult range, so essentially my only way is to convince myself I’m not interested in younger girls (which is, well, not really working; I can tell myself “yay it works”…until I meet a younger child again)

I do seek relationships with peers of my own age, but I don’t enjoy ageplay; it just doesn’t bring up much the same feelings, and I doubt I can experience this attraction to adults, no matter how much trickery is involved. Some, though, do find some relief in that. There is no single opinion on ageplay among pedophiles.

psycotica0,

Children, in my experience, have relatively few boundaries or concern for social space. How do you handle a situation where a child runs up to you, or hugs you, or crawls all over you, etc? Especially if the parents aren’t aware of your preferences, and thus may not see the issue with “kids being kids”.

To draw parallels to my own experiences, I may not want to sexually assault random attractive women, but I don’t typically have them lay on top of me and hang off me non-sexually. It would at least be more temptation, I would assume… Adult women tend to keep a formal distance, because they know that attraction is present and don’t want to encourage it, if they can help it.

Also, if I can add another question on here, what age range are we talking about? Does the pedophile community have identity labels for people who are interested in particular ages? Or is there instead some “golden age” that basically all pedophiles are attracted to, and virtually no one is attracted to kids younger than that, for example.

Saint,

Hey again, not OP, but also a pedophile. Those are great questions!

For myself, innocently interacting with kids is usually fine, but I am constantly aware of myself. If it ever feels like too much or it’s not fine, I excuse myself and have actually gotten irritable with children if they won’t leave me alone. Teaching kids boundaries with their own bodies sometimes looks like enforcing boundaries with your own body. If Saint says, “That’s enough for me, I’m done tickling/wrestling/playing/whatever” and a kid doesn’t resect that I mean it, they’re going to hear me raise my voice and walk away to enforce my boundary. This is good for me as well as the kid, so that they learn they can and should set redline boundaries for how people interact with them if they ever get uncomfortable.

As to age ranges… there is great variety. Pedophiles are one slice of what are called “chronophilias,” that is, people who are attracted to certain age ranges or Tanner Stages. In ascending order we have infantophilia (infants and babies), nepiophilia (2-4), pedophilia (prepubescent children), hebephilia (pubescent children), ephebophilia (teens, also this one is where attraction spots being a paraphilia as most of the population typically has some sexual interest in teens), teleiophilia (this is the “typical” age that people are attracted to each other something like 18-35), mesophilia (like 35-55?), and gerontophilia (people in their 70s+). There’s another one that I missed in between meso and geronto, I think.

I am a pedophile, but I’m other things too. If we were to look at the ages that I’m attracted to, the bell of the curve would be 6-16, but it doesn’t cut off sharply on either end of the curve, particularly as we get older. I’m attracted to some people in their 20s or even early 30s, and I’ve been attracted to kids in the nepiophile range. Age of attention is a little fuzzy for me also, because I’m at least halfway a cartoonophile. Cartoons are drawn with cutesy proportions and it can be difficult to tell the “age” of a character depicted.

Many people use the term “Minor Attracted Person” or “MAP” because it more broadly encompasses everyone with an attraction to children, not just people attracted to pre-pubescent children.

There are other community labels that we use for those of us that like boys, girls, both, or neither, as well as those of us that exclusively like children, or those of us that like adults too. There are other things, too, but this post has gone on long enough. 😅

I’m aware that some of that probably sounds super gross. It’s not anything that any of us chose to have. This is something that we experience. Imagine if you woke up tomorrow and were suddenly one of these things. It would be pretty difficult. Almost none of us have had an easy experience.

psycotica0,

Thank you for your honesty! I’ve asked another followup question to OP on their response to my message which I invite you to answer as well.

But I have a question for you regarding cartoons! So, I have encountered, in my travels, fan art / cartoons based on shows where the characters would be young. Bart Simpson would be a classic example, since he’s supposed to be 10 or something, but there’s a tonne of Simpsons fan art. But they write on the front “all characters depicted are 18”, and more importantly he’ll be drawn with a huge, clearly adult, penis and balls. But otherwise his character design is the same, it’s not some “future” version of the character.

So my question is whether or not art like that – young characters with post-pubescent sexual features – is the sweet spot for you, or if instead that kind of ruins the comic for you because you were looking for a more child-like figure.

And feel free to not answer if you’d rather not, of course. This is the internet, after all!

Saint,

It’s AMA, so I’ll answer anything honestly (as long as it’s in good faith). I like a pretty broad range of art. Some of it is more cartoonish (I’ve found comics of Bart before that worked for me) some of them are more on the realistic end. I’m also kind of an outlier amongst my pedophile peers because I like hyper features on child characters. Oversized genitals are a turn-on for me. But I do also like “normal” sized genitals. Some of the characters I’ve really liked are Naruto, Hiro Hamada, Aang (and the other Avatar boys), and Tyler Nguyen-Baker from Turning Red.

Verto,

Then I don’t see the issue too, unless they get too invasive and don’t allow me to have some personal space for a prolonged period of time. I don’t consider it a sexual or romantic experience on their part, and I love to share some warmth with them. They need that care and love and attention, and I’m there to do exactly that. I will allow them to hug, crawl, play with my hair, even kiss in the cheek if that’s their vibe and if they behave this way with others.

Normally this doesn’t overload me, but if it does (like if my deep child crush does it repeatedly) or if the child starts going to inappropriate territory, I can always excuse myself and leave for a while, while processing it and planning ways to calm the child down.

Well, pedophilia refers to attraction to pre-puberty children generally, and more exactly - to children between age of ~4 and puberty. For pedophiles, I’ve heard a saying “7 is heaven, 8 is great, 9 is fine”, and it’s about as golden rang-y as you’ll get. Personal experiences differ a lot, some will prefer the younger range, some the older, I personally would call 9-10 my perfect one.

There are other terms related to other age ranges in minors, like infantophilia/nepiophilia (up to about 4 years old; often considered as part of pedophilia, but has distinct features), hebephilia (attraction to children going through puberty), and ephebophilia (attraction to post-puberty minors, i.e. ~15-17).

Ephebophilia is straight up super common, especially in males, and most ephebophiles don’t consider this as something off - after all, 18 years old is a legal boundary, not natural one, and 17yo person barely differs from 18yo.

In any way, should you academically define pedophilia, you already only look at the range from 0(4) to about 12.

psycotica0,

Thank you for your honest and straightforward answer!

I imagine you’re more sensitive to it, as someone in the community, but do you ever hear someone talking about their attraction to a 4 year old (for example, as someone outside your range) and think “that’s so weird, I just don’t get it”? Basically, I’m asking if you ever feel towards them the way that most people would feel towards you? (at least in terms of confusion, ignoring the hate). Or is it closer to feeling more like a preference, where you’re more like “I guess I could see it, but it’s just not for me”, the way some guys might not find some celebrity attractive that other guys do find attractive.

Speaking of “deep child crush”, I have a more direct question which could get into uncomfortable territory, so please feel free to not answer this one if it feels too invasive.

People who are into adults tend to have sexual or sexualized characteristics that they focus on. The classics would be “boobs” or “butts” or “legs” for people attracted to women (though of course there can be others), and “hands” or “butts” again or “forearms / shoulders /muscles” or “voice” or “hair” or “height” for women (though of course there can be others).

Many of those are post-pubescent features, probably not by accident. So, what features do pedophiles find attractive in kids? What separates some random kid from a crush?

Verto, (edited )

Mostly “that’s so weird”, but then “my attractions feel equally weird for others”, so I end up not being weirded out, but I certainly can’t comprehend it.

I’m not sure I can point out a single feature of a child I’d find attractive; it’s firstly behavioural factors (I love children that open up to me, and I feel and notice the trust and bonding effort they put into relationships with me), and only then physical features (voice, face, body size, arms, feet, and general body proportions; genitalia as well). The answer will significantly differ between pedophiles, though, with some prioritizing some other factors. I know many pedophiles that are into boys are absolutely obsessed with butts, for example, and while I can relate to how they feel, this is far from the first thing I’d look for in my boy crush, for example.

AceSLS, (edited )

Not a question but I’m proud of you.

Not many people put others well being in front of their own. So even if you are mentally ill, you’re still a better person than many :) and don’t you dare ever believe anyone telling you the opposite

I wish you lots of love and strength to live following the right path and I’m sure you’ll find happiness ;* (surrounding yourself with good people is also very helpful)

-Fellow mentally ill person

Edit: For anyone else passing by that is feeling disgust/replusion or anything else negative towards op/that other commenter please keep in mind that those 2 are just some poor guys struggling because of their mind and are obviously suffering. They didn’t hurt anyone and I believe they probably won’t either. So maybe show them some compassion instead, yes?

Saint,

Hey! I’m not OP, but I am also a pedophile. Thank you so much! I do want to just point out that while we may be mentally ill in some ways (chronic depression for me), pedophilia isn’t one. It’s simply our sexuality. The DSM does list pedophilic disorder, which is if our attractions cause us distress, but that’s not the case for me anymore.

I really appreciate your input, though! Thanks! I wish you the best!

AceSLS, (edited )

Oh wow, sorry I really thought pedophillia was categorized as mental illness

Obviously didn’t mean to offend, I just want to show you 2 some appreciation (this is something society often does not…)

I’m really glad to hear it’s at least not causing you any distress anymore :)

Manic depression here btw, problems really seldom come alone do they? Anyway stay strong king ❤️

Saint,

Thanks so much, and I’m not offended. A lot of people think it’s a mental illness. Two friends were totally shocked when I said I didn’t need therapy for it. “WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON’T NEED THERAPY? MAYBE THERE’S SOME WAY TO REATTACH YOUR ATTRACTIONS TO SOMETHING NORMAL!” Conversion therapy doesn’t work for gay people or for pedophiles.

Anyway, I really appreciate you. You stay strong too!

Verto,

Thank you! I wish you all the best with whatever is happening with your own mind. You can always share, too, if you’ll ever want to, and I’ll be happy to help you with what I can.

The change of pedophilia to pedophilic disorder Saint talks about happened long ago in the US (since the DSM-V update in 2013), but only recently came to other countries in WHO’s ICD-11, so for most of the world, it’s actually a very recent change - no wonder most people don’t know that yet :)

However, my country decided to straight up reject entire ICD-11 and stick with outdated ICD-10 because of that change (and also because of delisting trans individuals). They just literally ignored entire medical progress of the past 30 years because hurr durr pedophiles no longer sick. So, the reception of the changes is still…complicated.

Zozano,

When discussing paedophilia, the primary focus should be on how to protect children.

I’ve always felt our discourse on paedophiles to be less about that, and more about punishing people who haven’t done anything wrong.

I’ve always considered the adage; is it better to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature?

At the risk of comparing children to meat, I think being an ethical paedophile is similar to being vegan. You’re controlling your selfish desires so you don’t cause unnecessary suffering to another.

I don’t have any questions for you OP. But good on you for being a good guy. I’m sorry your brain got wired wrong.

Saint,

Hi there! I’m not OP, but I am also a pedophile.

I’m going to “yes, and” you on your first point there: the primary focus should be on protecting children, and one of the best ways to do that is by providing support to pedophiles. Many pedophiles discover their attractions between the ages of 12 and 17. Most of them never talk about it with anyone (I certainly didn’t). According to research, this puts them at increased risk of commiting a contact offense against a child. It also I creases the risk of suicide. Many teen pedophiles kill themselves when they realize what they’re attracted to. Getting support, either from a therapist or from anti-contact peers, diminishes those risks significantly.

You are correct that the way society is currently designed, a lot of the ways we “protect children” has nothing to do with protecting children and everything to do with persecuting pedophiles. Society would much rather have us incarcerated, or better yet dead. It would solve the problem of our existence pretty cleanly. But that’s not realistic, and people only want that for the unknown boogeyman idea of a pedophile. Not for their son or daughter or cousin or parent or friend.

Your comparison to veganism is apt. Anti-contact MAPs are content with using ethical, non-harmful outlets that don’t hurt anyone.

Thank you for your sympathy (you said to OP, put presumably to all pedophiles), but I’m not sad about what I am anymore. It’s been a very painful journey, but it’s shaped me into a very kind, empathetic, caring person. I am happy with who I am.

Pantherina,

This may be a weird comparison but its just like with illegalizing drugs.

Putting people in jail for being sick is so fucked up and causes the opposite of whats wanted, plus the extra damage to innocent people

Saint,

Yeah! It’s similar, though not quite the same. We aren’t sick, pedophilia isn’t a mental illness. You can treat and cure drug addiction, but we aren’t addicted to anything. We have a sexual attraction. Often, therapy looks like helping us to accept our attractions and ourselves for who we are. There may be other elements too, like victim empathy and things like that for pedophiles who struggle with impulse control, but on the whole it’s acceptance. Many of us start out pretty revolted with our attractions just like an everyday teleiophile would if they suddenly woke up and found themselves attracted to children.

Verto,

Sure thing - protecting children is the highest priority.

And currently, protecting children and helping us combat stigma go hand in hand. At the very least, in a part where we could open up about our issues without fear and get professional help if needed.

I, too, like the veganism analogy. As per “brain wired wrong” - previously I would refer to my situation just the same way, but when you live with it long enough, it becomes normal, and the curiosity sparks not on “why am I like this”, but rather “why others are different”. Regular people find children cute, beautiful, lovely. But then, when it comes to actually feeling something for them, people just don’t. This always made me feel weird. But yes, your case is the norm, and ours is exception - probably for the better :)

Zozano,

What I’m saying wasn’t to imply that there is a difference between protecting children and any other measure, but more about the primary focus for many people tends to be “all paedophiles get the noose”.

A lot of things which may prevent real world harm are often not even considered because of the “ick factor”. The way society views this issue is detrimental to child safety.

For what it’s worth, my brain is wired wrong, I have ADHD. It’s not to imply people with bad wiring deserve any less compassion. But people with bad wiring are suffering in their own ways, and they deserve professional help.

Verto,

I get your points, thank you for additional clarification!

Cold_Brew_Enema,

This thread is making me realize there are a lot more pedophiles than I thought.

Do you have any friends with kids, and do they let you around them?

Saint,

I’m not OP, but I’m also a pedophile. I am out to friends with kids and they trust me around them. My friends know me deeply and believe that I am a good person and that I am trustworthy.

I understand the why of your question, but it still stings. This is like asking straight friends do people let you around women (or men, depending on which gender they’re attracted to). I’m not a danger to anyone, just like you aren’t in danger of sexually assaulting any attractive adult you might see or be alone with. I recognize that this answer may have you brand my friends as naive for trusting me. Maybe you think that all pedophiles will always eventually touch a kid, or that merely having an attraction I didn’t choose makes me a risk and a danger. I hope that you’ll examine that belief, maybe even take the time to get to know some of us. It’s not true that we all hurt kids, but thst societal belief does make us think it’s true. Before I found Virped and MAP Support Club I thought I was the only one, and I thought it would just be a matter of time.

This article talks about all the pedophiles you may know who aren’t out and who you’ll never find out about because we don’t do anything:

www.lesswrong.com/posts/…/social-dark-matter

Cold_Brew_Enema,

Thanks for answering

Saint,

Sure thing!

Verto,

In my case, I am not out, since it adds a lot of risks for me, and I’m generally careful on who I’m out to - there’s always a chance a person can use that against me, or just freak out and out me knowing I’m attracted to children.

But I do sometimes babysit children, and I’m considered to be an excellent person to trust children to among friends and family - someone who will entertain kids, properly care about them, follow all the requests parents may have. Children love and trust me too - I pay a lot of attention to their needs and always listen up on anything that’s on their mind; I also mediated several conflicts between kids and parents, and earned a reputation of a person who can solve things in a way that makes both sides happy. At the end of the day, both parents and kids see me as a close and trusted friend.

Cold_Brew_Enema,

You sound like a great person. Thanks for the response!

Verto,

Thank you for understanding!

sangriaferret,

Did you experience any childhood sexual trauma? Do you think any life experiences influenced your feelings or do you feel you were born this way?

Verto,

I was not sexually abused as a child, although I had some early near-sexual experiences (around 7yo) with peers. But I don’t know what to make of it. Generally, I think I was just born this way.

Saint,

Not OP, but also a pedophile. I never experienced any sexual anything in my childhood, not even porn. I started masturbating a few weeks shy of 17 and realized I liked to think about boys while I did it. I thought I was “just” gay, and that was already really bad because I was religious. As time went on, I realized it was so much worse. At least that’s how I thought at the time. I’m pretty sure I was genetically predisposed to develop this way. It’s a sexuality just like other sexualities. It’s just one that can’t ethically be acted on the same as other sexualities.

magnetosphere,
magnetosphere avatar

How difficult is it not to act on your feelings? How angry do you get at (god, nature, the universe, whatever) for burdening you with something so universally reviled?

I gotta admit, I’m a little freaked out, but your tone and straightforward honesty has helped quite a bit.

Verto,

At first, there was a lot of frustration involved in this for me, but currently I’m simply mentally incapable of crossing the line. I just get instant aversion on the thought of making this a reality - similar, in some ways, to violent thoughts someone normal might have. (you might imagine yourself killing someone that made you super angry, but you’re not gonna actually do this, are you?)

As per being angry at the world, I certainly get that sometimes. Having such attractions, even when you have “normal” ones too, is certainly living on hard mode. But then, there are many others with their own issues and their own struggles we know nothing about. Plenty of people were treated poorly by the merciless reality.

Saint,

Hi! Not OP, but also a pedophile. I used to get really angry at God/the universe, in fact it’s one of the reasons I left my religion (how could a loving God make me or anyone else this way?) but today I accept it about myself and I’m not mad anymore. I’m out to several friends who all know me well, and so far all but two people have accepted me.

I’m going to turn your original question back on you a little bit. If you see someone in your day-to-day life that you’re attracted to, but you don’t have consent to do anything with, how difficult do you find it now to act on your feelings? It’s the same for me. In the words of Penn and Teller, I do rape and murder all I want. And that amount is zero.

magnetosphere,
magnetosphere avatar

lol good answer

Saint,

lol, thank you. People tend to think of us as morally bankrupt with out of control sexual impulses and urges. The truth is that… we’re people just like you in many ways. Different in some, but fundamentally the same. We need help and support and acceptance the same as anyone else.

Rodeo, (edited )

People tend to think of us as morally bankrupt with out of control sexual impulses and urges.

There are a lot of parallels to be made between the current perception of pedophiles and the perception of homosexuals in the mid 20th century.

Alan Turing, inventor of the modern computer, was chemically castrated for being gay. They wanted to control his urges, because sodomy was seen as immoral. We look back on that now with horror at how we could have been so inhumane.

Saint,

You’re absolutely right.

speck,

It's interesting to notice how potent the stigma is around the topic. Like, I feel that I should be creating an alt account just to ask a question on here to avoid association with the topic...

A few things come to mind:

Is this something that you experience urges around? If so, what outlet do you provide them? Are there certain mediums like written stories or hentai that you find acceptable?

I notice that for all the disgust expressed around pedophilia, there is also rather rampant sexualization of children and teens. Not just in hentai but in, say, beauty pageants — and now, apparently, via AI imagery — occurring across many nations/cultures. Curious what you make of this.

What is the endgame of pedophilia? Like, even if it were permissible, what would you be seeking? How do you reconcile with the reality that a kid will age out of the zone to which you are attracted? I guess: is it something that is more about the fantasy? Is there a sexual component, or is it a sort of a Michael Jackson thing, where you prefer their company?

Finally, just want to mention that there are often low fee options for therapy. They might be with a pre-licensed person, but the quality of treatment is dependent on the match with the therapist anyhow. No idea how you'd find someone willing to work with you but, given you don't report having acted on any urges, your information remains confidential and you can shop around until you find someone who is willing to do so.

Saint,

not OP, but also a pedophile. I don’t know that we experience “urges” per se. We have a sexuality, just like anyone else. If you would say that urges are a part of any (non-asexual) sexuality, then yes we experience urges in the same way. FSM (shota/loli) is legal in my country, and I do use that as a harmless outlet. (Harmless in the sense that no real person is harmed in the production of the material I use).

People have always sexualized children. Personally, I’m not a fan of sexualizing real children (I’m something of a cartoonophile, so I almost prefer cartoons anyway?) But, I will say that private thoughts and fantasies can’t hurt anyone, and as long as a person keeps those things between their own ears, there’s nothing wrong with it. I do think that commenting in spaces that a child may see what is said is harmful. I don’t think a child should ever know that a pedophile is attracted to them. I also don’t like people using AI to generate pictures of real children. AI as a whole is a big mess that I don’t like. I think that if it’s trained using actual CSEM images it’s pretty unethical, but if it’s extrapolating virtual CSAM based on what it knows porn looks like and what it knows kids look like maybe it’s okay? I think it’s gray, but dark.

What’s our endgame? Well, that’s a great question that we need society’s help untangling. When you say “if it were permissable” I’m assuming you mean adult-child sex? That’s not what I want, nor is it what any anti-contact pedophile wants. We believe the risk of harm to a child is too great, and we stand against it even in places where adult-child sex is legal or permissable. But back to our endgame: let’s say that everyone who is or will grow up to be a pedophile is killed or ceases to exist right now. In 13 to 20 years you will have a whole new crop of pedophiles. We are an unfortunate, but natural and kind of normal quirk of sexuality. I guarantee that you know at least 1 or 2 pedophiles who are not out to you or maybe even themselves. So what are we going to do with us if we aren’t going anywhere? Well. We need resources. We need therapy and mental healthcare. And we need it regardless of our income. If society wants to help us not offend we need to be able to be open about who we are, we need to be able to seek help, and we need to have access to sexual outlets that don’t cause harm (even if they’re “gross” to the rest of society). I believe the fictional sexual outlets cause no harm, adult-in-adult ageplay causes no harm, child dolls cause no harm, etc. Are those things unpalatable to society at large? Yes, probably. But better that we have access to ethical things that are kind of icky than have sexual frustration and tension build inside us.

How do we reconcile that kids will age out? Is it a Michael Jackson thing? Well… realizing that kids will age out isn’t a thing for me. I don’t pine after real kids so much. Cartoon children can be children forever. As far as just preferring children’s company… some of us are like that. Some of us mentally and/or emotionally feel much younger than we are chronologically. Some people may refer to themselves as trans-age or age regressors. But many of us are not like that. For myself, I wouldn’t mind having a 10-year-old body with my current adult brain. Not even for sexual reasons, I just find having a body that age appealing and true to how I want to exist in the world.

To your last point: getting therapy is a very tricky undertaking. Mandatory reporting laws make it a requirement that therapists report us if they even believe we are a danger, and for some therapists merely having this attraction makes us potentially dangerous and therefore reportable. I know some people who have had the police called on them from a doctor or therapist’s office when they asked for help. I know some people who have been outed to family members by a therapist. It’s not always safe for us to seek therapy even if it is affordable. As there is more research about us, I’m hopeful that that will change, and there are resources out there for us to seek safe therapists, but these therapists may not be in our network, further complicating things.

Pantherina,

I can not imagine how it must feel to have fucking cops come at you because you seeked help…

kromem,

For myself, I wouldn’t mind having a 10-year-old body with my current adult brain. Not even for sexual reasons, I just find having a body that age appealing and true to how I want to exist in the world.

This is actually a pretty interesting point.

We’ve been gradually starting as a society to reconsider the lines between concepts historically grouped together, like recognizing that a MtF trans person attracted to men isn’t homosexual but better seen as heterosexual with a different gender self-identification from the body they were born into.

The notion of age as attraction vs identity is an interesting one I’ve not considered before. That there’s a difference between an adult who sees themselves as an adult and is attracted to children vs an adult whose self-identity is more like a child themselves and attracted to similar aged people to how they self-identify.

I would also imagine that nuance and designation might be quite relevant to the issue of therapy and management.

If you were creating a virtual representation of yourself, what would that representation be in terms of age, gender, and other identity characteristics? And how long has that self-identify been apparent to you? Since you were actually that age, only years later, or even before it was that seen as the age you desired to be?

Saint,

Hmmm… So, I agree with you to a point, but I want to be careful here. Regardless of how anyone with age dysphoria (yes, that’s a term we use) identifies, I want to be clear that I don’t think it’s acceptable for them to have any sort of sexual or romantic contact with a child. It might be appropriate for them to seek out another adult who feels the same way about their own age, or is interested in age play.

Additionally, not all of us experience age dysphoria. I believe it’s most common amongst those of us who are attracted to our own genders, but that’s purely anecdotal, I haven’t taken any survey, nor seen any research.

If I could inhabit a virtual representation of how I would want to look, it would be myself (male) around age 8 or 9 or 10. Or possibly some conglomerate of features that I liked about myself between between the ages of like… 4 and 16, but that sounds much more amorphous, doesn’t it?

This has been apparent to me since I was in my late teens. After watching the movie The Butterfly Effect I would often fantasize about sending my brain back into my childhood body and living my life again but with all my present knowledge and experience, and also not physically aging after a certain point. I’ve also imagined what it would be like to live like that species of immortal jellyfish that goes back to being a polyp and then grows into an adult jellyfish again. I also really liked the book The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August because the main character keeps getting born and living through his childhood. Disappointingly, the author mostly skips over Harry’s childhood and focuses on him being an adult in each life.

Verto,

I don’t really experience urges nowadays - at first, it does get into this territory, but urges require at least considering intent, which I don’t have as of now. Generally, it might be more useful to think of it in the framework of “normal” attraction - we don’t get attracted to every child, and we go through the same set of experiences one has for people their age when they fall in love or lust after the other. And same as with “normal” attraction, we can keep that to ourselves. As per outlets - for me it’s mostly just imagination, but I see no issue with fictional materials - they just don’t work well for me personally.

My attitude to beauty pageants including children is very strongly negative. Not even due to potential for sexualization of children (which can, however, be the case in some instances), but rather because those are incredibly harmful in themselves, being psychologically (hard work, burden of expectations) and physically (unhealthy diets, tons of makeup at early age with sensitive skin, and a ton of terrible practices) taxing for a child. Sending a child to those is ripping out their childhood and forcing them through things in life they’re not ready for.

I don’t fully grasp the “endgame of pedophilia” concept, but if you mean “what will you do if society will accept you no matter what you do”, then the endgame is to be able to be treated like non-pedophilic individuals, being, well, socially accepted. We do not want the society to allow people to abuse children, and even if it were legal and acceptable, we would not do this, because the reason is not laws or societal attitudes, but actual harm. If any of such restrictions would be lifted, we’d be the first to raise awareness of such madness. We’d feel safer, though, hanging out around kids, being amazing parents, teachers, and friends. We love children in all ways, and it warms our hearts helping them explore our amazing world, navigating the issues they might have, caring about them, and just spending time around.

Unfortunately, confidentiality is breached more often than we’d like, for no apparent reason. There are many instances of pedophiles being outed by therapists, as well as anecdotal cases of therapists reporting to the police who were like “uhm, yes, so what?”. So, it is more dangerous than one would imagine.

Saint, (edited )

I’m also a pedophile and user on Virped. Everyone can feel free to ask questions directly to the VirPed board, if they’re curious about us: virped.org/ask

Also, if you experience attraction to children and you need help, please check out the following:

www.mapresources.info

www.mapsupport.club

www.virped.org

these are peer support and resource options that are available to you. You aren’t alone, and you aren’t a monster. You can live a happy, fulfilling life and you don’t have to hurt anyone.

Verto,

Thanks for the link! I was gonna add it later, as VirPed answers limited amount of questions. But it’s an invaluable resource allowing to see one question from the perspectives of different pedophiles and minor attracted people.

Saint,

You’re welcome! Sounds like you’re already on VP and MSC, then? Might want to edit your original post and link both sites in case any other lone MAPs find this post and need help and resources. www.mapresources.info would be good to link also.

Verto,

Done!

guyrocket, (edited )
guyrocket avatar

I don't know but I think there is very little "help" or prevention for pedophilia and plenty of persecution and prosecution. Do you think that should change? How should it change? Should someone like yourself be able to find help to not commit pedophilia and if so what should that look like?

ETA: Sorry I misused some words. I'm not very knowledgeable about this topic and defer to those who are.

PeepinGoodArgs,

Pedophilia is the feeling. Abuse of a minor is the action. It’s important to keep them separate.

Verto,

It absolutely should!

We absolutely need more therapy programs for minor-attracted people, more of the competent therapists, less social stigma (and please, stop calling child molesters pedophiles and child abuse pedophilia, that’s not helpful and not true!), and probably softer reporting laws, too.

For example, reporting past offences may bring more harm than good, scaring off those who want to change. Similar with the consumption of CSAM - it is bad, but reporting it leads to people not being able to talk about it directly, which hurts prevention efforts, exacerbating the issue. Etc.

Saint,

Hi there, I’m also a pedophile. What does “committing pedophilia” look like? Pedophilia is an unchosen attraction to children. Child molestation/abuse is something that some pedophiles (and also non-pedophiles) do. I’m assuming you are talking about committing abuse. Many of us don’t struggle with not abusing children, but we do struggle with internalized societal hatred. Imagine if you woke up tomorrow and realized you were a pedophile. You’d feel like the world was ending, I imagine. We need more free resources like Germany’s Project Dunkelfeld. If pedophiles can feel free to reach out for help they are at reduced risk of harming themselves or others.

bionicjoey,

I’m curious what you think is an appropriate punishment for various crimes related to people in your position. Like what do you think is an appropriate punishment for someone who is found to possess CSAM? Someone who produces simulated CSAM like Loli? Etc.

Verto,

Possessing or producing loli/shota or other fictional materials - no punishment

Possessing CSAM generated by other people with no intention of redistribution = police warning, then administrative arrest, then ~2 years in prison

Posessing CSAM generated by other people with the intention of redistribution = 4+ years in prison

Possessing CSAM generated by the person with no intention of redistribution = all charges related to child molestation +4 or more years in prison

Possessing CSAM generated by the person with the intention of redistribution = all charges related to child molestation +8 or more years in prison

Something along these lines

Saint,

Hi there, I’m also a pedophile. For CSAM/CSEM, I personally don’t think that prison and sex offender registry is appropriate (there are a wide range of opinions on this topic in the anti-contact community, but generally we agree that present laws are too harsh). I believe that mandatory therapy would be useful.

In the case of loli/shota/kodacon (FSM, fictional sexual material), I don’t think any crime has been committed (there’s no child that’s been victimized), so there’s no reason to penalize the person using it. AI is a bit more complicated, and I don’t really like AI because of the sticky ethical implications.

andrew_bidlaw,

In your opinion, would you call pedophiles supposed rich visitors of Epshtein island or is it something else?

Do you have a favorite trick to abstain from urges?

Do you have problems while having sex with a mature partner?

What do you think of the recent scandals with AI generating CSAM-like?

Was there a book or a movie that made a huge impact on you?

Verto,

I’m honestly not super informed on Epstein drama, but if I recall correctly, he hosted minors in the age range of 15+ or something, which would constitute ephebophilia in case age is big part of it. Some people abuse children not because they are primarily attracted to them, but because they are just physically easier to abuse - however, given the power and influence many of those visitors have, I doubt they’re deprived of adults willing to do it all to them, so probably that is their preference and they are ephebophiles.

I don’t really force myself to abstain from urges; as a teen, I visualized the outcome and consequences (including outing) and realized if I’ll ever do that I’ll probably lose any future contact with children I know and trust of their parents (even if I won’t go to jail due to being minor myself at the time). Currently, I don’t have to “abstain from urges”, I just feel it super inappropriate on an emotional level, like an immediate emotional aversion countering emotional passion.

I’m lucky to be highly attracted to adult partners. In an ideal world, I would have both, but yeah, one side of it leads to suffering and trauma, so I’m left in heartache on that front (but enjoying the other, adult side of things). Many pedophiles and generally minor-attracted people are not so lucky.

For AI CSAM I think, when properly controlled and reasonably walled from minors (some will find it anyway, but it should be matter of determination rather than stumbling upon it), as well as when meaningfully different from real imagery (so that you couldn’t confuse the two), it could actually be very good and positive, preventing many from going for a real CSAM. I envision it can prevent a lot of suffering related to child exploitation, and it will be a positive development for pedophiles and minor-attracted people in general, too.

Out of books that featured children, probably The Book Thief. It’s a very powerful and emotional book as it is, but for a person who low-key fell in love with Liesel and got adored by Rudy, this has hit me hard. I generally recommend it as a very worthy read. As per what everyone may wonder - Lolita - it didn’t impress me nearly as much, especially by trying to make the reader feel compassionate to a sick man who sees little problem in what he does, even when it crosses the line of abuse even by adult standards. It does capture some of the features of attractive young girls well, though.

andrew_bidlaw,

I should’ve rephrased the first question. On Epstein, I was more about the difference of calling a person attracted to minors a pedophile\ephebophile and those who did abused a minor even if they weren’t psychologically attracted. My own assumption is that for these rich people it was both a taboo thing they can afford and also a way to get a compromat on each other to sign their loyalty to each other. Should media and public assume they were attracted by default, or we should use abuser\molester before some psychological examination?

Thanks for taking your time. Interesting perspective, completely foreign to me.

Verto,

Ah. Well, as I said, merely abusing a child doesn’t constitute an attraction, you’re right on that. There is plenty of non-pedophilic child abusers (in fact, those constitute about half of all cases for sexual abuse of minors), just as there’s plenty of pedophiles who never touched a child.

Constituting an attraction is therefore a separate task involving complicated equipment and testing methods.

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