The Chinese diaspora ‘needs to rise up’ about atrocities against Uyghurs: Q&A with human rights lawyer Rayhan Asat

Rayhan Asat is one of the most vocal advocates today for the Uyghur people, her people, whose homeland in northwestern China is the scene of the Communist Party’s ongoing commission of what the United Nations says may be “crimes against humanity,” and what U.S. President Joseph Biden called a “genocide.” Among the roughly 1 million Turkic peoples detained, imprisoned, and forced into labor there — most of them Muslims — is Asat’s younger brother.

sadreality,

Where is Turkey at?

Where are the Muslim solidarity?

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

Where is Turkey at?

Too busy undermining NATO & redefining genocide.

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

How about the US concerns itself with its own overcrowded and racist prisons?

0x815,

Oh, this?

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s not whataboutism when the article literally talks about Joe Biden, the god damn president of the US, calling it a genocide. The same genocide denier in chief that is casting doubt on the actual death toll in Gaza and playing defense for the genocidal Zionist regime.

Is there not a genocide against Black people happening in the US right now? If not, what exactly is the difference?

It’s a pretty obvious double standard.

0x815,

what exactly is the difference?

There is no difference. Both are crimes against humanity. But what you are doing is whataboutism nevertheless.

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Whataboutism is when you bring up totally unrelated atrocities in to distract from the topic at hand.

This directly relates to the exact same topic. That’s not whataboutism. That’s just pointing out hypocrisy.

Also, to clarify, are you saying the US is committing genocide against its Black population?

0x815,

If someone posts an article about black people in the U.S. (and there are many), would you write a comment asking sonething like, “How about the genicide in Xinjiang or Tibet”?

I guess you wouldn’t. But you do it here. And this is what we understand by whataboutism and double standards.

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

I guarantee if there was an article about president Xi talking about Black people in the US the comments section would be full of comments about Xinjiang, but it’s only “whataboutism” when someone contrasts something against America. That should strike you as strange.

Also, answer my question: are you saying the US is committing genocide against its Black population?

TranscendentalEmpire,

guarantee if there was an article about president Xi talking about Black people in the US the comments section would be full of comments about Xinjiang, but it’s only “whataboutism”

That is also a whataboutism, just because it’s more widely accepted in the west doesn’t make it right.

Also, answer my question: are you saying the US is committing genocide against its Black population?

Lol you get called out for a whataboutism, give an example of why it’s wrong to utilize, and then double down on your whataboutism?

are you saying the US is committing genocide against its Black population?

It honestly depends on your definition of genocide. I can confidently say that America has participated in genocide against black Americans up until recent history, but academically I’m not sure if the current level of repression counts as an active genocide.

That being said, it doesn’t detract from the crimes against humanity currently being committed in xinjiang. Two nations can commit crimes against humanity, both should be condemned accordingly.

queermunist, (edited )
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

lol you get called out for a whataboutism, give an example of why it’s wrong to utilize, and then double down on your whataboutism?

Jesus fuck I’m responding to the quote from Joe Biden in your fucking article.

Pointing out hypocrisy of someone quoted in the article is not whataboutism. Otherwise, what, am I just supposed to take the US president’s words at face value? As if he doesn’t have political motives and interests behind everything he says?

It honestly depends on your definition of genocide.

That’s my point. There’s no definition of genocide that would include the Uyghurs without also including Black people in America, yet here is Joe fucking Biden pointing out the mote in his neighbor’s eye while there’s a beam in his (or however that saying goes).

So since we’ve confirmed you won’t call America’s contemporary treatment of Black people genocide, do you think China is committing genocide?

lisko,
@lisko@sopuli.xyz avatar

Bro stop being cringe and defending CCP bullshit. Get a life

TranscendentalEmpire,

Jesus fuck I’m responding to the quote from Joe Biden in your fucking article.

You’re responding to the accusation by joe Biden with a whataboutism. He labeled it a genocide, and you basically said whatabout American genocide.

Pointing out hypocrisy of someone quoted in the article is not whataboutism.

You didn’t frame it as pointing out hypocritical commentary, you juxtaposed it to another crime to validate it.

There is a pretty simple solution to this, if you just acknowledged that the Chinese government is abusing the Uyghur people, then you could claim you were calling out hypocritical thoughts. By ignoring it completely, it seems as if you are excusing it via whataboutism.

That’s my point. There’s no definition of genocide that would include the Uyghurs without also including Black people in America

I think that’s a pretty academically dishonest statement. If you preconditioned that with “the history of black people in America” you would have been a lot closer to the mark.

If we are comparing current affairs… despite a gross level of institutional racism, Black Americans have much more representation and rights than any Uyghur in China.

since we’ve confirmed you won’t call America’s contemporary treatment of Black people genocide,

Again, this is the problem with whataboutism, you are trying to force an equivocation that just does not align. Americas history with racism is entirely different than China’s and comparing them to each other does nothing to clarifier either.

If you examine only contemporary history in America it minimizes the generational impact of institutional slavery and it’s after affects. Dividing up the institutional racism into historical and modern either downplays historical racism, or excuses modern racism. It needs to be examined as a continuous issue that has spanned and changed over a period of two to three hundred years.

do you think China is committing genocide?

It’s hard to say for sure, as the Chinese government has not really allowed any real investigation into the treatment of the Uyghur people. However, based on information the party has released themselves… It sure seems like they might be.

Chinese authorities acknowledged that birth rates dropped by almost a third in 2018 in Xinjiang, but denied reports of forced sterilization and genocide.[24] Birth rates in Xinjiang fell a further 24% in 2019, compared to a nationwide decrease of 4.2%.[18]

There are plenty of hyperbolic accusations made by American think tanks that I have no reason to believe. However, China’s own census data is fairly clear. In a time where china is massively investing in their western province, we can see a huge decrease in the Uyghur birth rate, while at the same a quite large influx of han from the east.

Pair that with the fact that they’re destroying important cultural landmarks, including places of worship… It would lead anyone capable of putting aside their own biases to question if a genocide is occuring.

I just don’t think you, or many western people really understand the importance of ethnic chauvinism in Asian societies. Even Mao foresaw the trouble ethnic policy was becoming in his own time.

“Judging from the mass of information on hand, the Central Committee holds that wherever there are minority nationalities the general rule is that there are problems calling for solution, and in some cases very serious ones. On the surface all is quiet, but actually there are some very serious problems. What has come to light in various places in the last two or three years shows that Han chauvinism exists almost everywhere. It will be very dangerous if we fail now to give timely education and resolutely overcome Han chauvinism in the Party and among the people. The problem in the relations between nationalities which reveals itself in the Party and among the people in many places is the existence of Han chauvinism to a serious degree and not just a matter of its vestiges.”

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