Some help in selecting or building an E-bike.

goatmeal, 3 months ago

One more thing for you to consider in canada (I commute in the upper Midwest and found this out the hard way) - freezing temperatures can reduce the range by up to almost half depending on how cold it gets.

Vancouver seems a little better near the coast but you may need to get a heating jacket or extra range to compensate

Alpha71, 3 months ago

Yeah, on those days, I am happy to take transit. 😂

jeffhykin, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

6.2 hours (150km at 24kph) is one hell of a commute.

TLDR: Because of rain and snow, I’d recommend prebuilt (water sealed electronics are difficult to do right). You can get both the bus and 150km range by getting one that’s well-under 50lbs with a quick release battery. Use the bus for 99% of commutes, and when you want to go for a 6 hour trip, get saddle bags and load them up with ~5 extra batteries and a charger. I say well-under 50lbs because putting any bike on a bus mount is a bit awkward; putting a 50lbs bike on a mount in the rain/snow many weeks out of the year is asking for a back injury.

In terms 150km off a single charge, Eahora Romeo seems hard to beat to me. Being over the 24kph limit probably doesn’t matter so long as it doesnt look like it very obviously goes over the 24kph limit. For context, the Onyx RCR with an extended 55ah battery, should get you right around 150km at 32kph, but the battery alone weighs 37lbs and costs $2,200. It also definitely looks like an “above 24kph” bike cause it does +90kph. The Eahora Romeo battery seems more efficient at 27lbs and 60ah. If you want actually under/at 24kph I don’t know of any prebuilt with 150km of range on a single charge that doesn’t have top speed of like +40kph, so it would probably have to be custom. Even custom though, getting that down to 50lbs with 150km of range on a single charge, with a ~300lbs payload (person+backpack+saddlebags,etc), and tires capable of rain/snow, is near limits of technology. With the right design you could get away with taking the battery off the bike before putting it on the rack. But really, frames that support a +55ah battery, even if they’re pure carbon fiber, still are probably are probably not a good form factor for a bus rack. Using a smaller battery and bringing two or three

1. Gets bikes closer to the 24kph limit
2. Lets it go on a bus or up stairs
3. Will be a ton cheaper (less expensive frame)

Even with multiple batteries, unless you find a great deal, I don’t think there’s a real way to get that kind of range without spending upwards of $2,000 after taxes. Batteries are getting cheaper, but 150km is a long drive, even for a car.

Alpha71, 3 months ago

That is my thinking as well. a basic ebike, but buy multiple batteries. As for long rides, I am well aware of how uncomfortable a 6 hour long bike ride would be. So I would be taking alot of rest breaks.😂 Like I said earlier I’m in no hurry.

jeffhykin, 3 months ago

👍 when you get one definitely post it!

litchralee, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

To start, I’m sorry to hear that COVID-19 wrought such an enormous impact on you. As for an ebike, I think many in this community will agree that it’s quite the game changer, especially in lieu of a car and moreso in combination with public transport.

Your criteria to maximize range is perfectly reasonable in light of the restricted 24 kph – I’ll round to 25 to use more round numbers – regulations in your area. But is the 150 km (93 miles) figure intended to meet a specific use-case? That would be six hours in the saddle, which would give even very experienced acoustic road cyclists some substantial chafing in the bum area.

With that said, using one data point from a Class 1 ebike I purchased at auction and had a 500 Wh 48v battery pack, and limited to 32 kph (20 mph), it achieved a range of 37 miles (59 km) when run at full speed until near empty; the advertised range was 33 miles, so not bad at all. We’ll call it 50 km to keep things round, and to discount the human energy input.

Since energy consumption scales with velocity squared, reducing from 32 kph to your target 25 kph is a 1.6x speed reduction but should be a 2.56x energy reduction to run the same distance. Or alternatively, to run 2.56x farther on the same charge, which would be 128 km.

Supposing we discount that down to 100 km to be conservative, that would suggest 500 Wh can move for 100 km. This rate of 5 Wh/km is slightly more efficient than averaged statistics online, which cite an average of 8 Wh/km. But based on that, 750 Wh would achieve your 150 km target. The 48V 30Ah (1440 Wh) batteries you mentioned would be overachieving the target by a lot, even if your final build weight and efficiency was not as high as the auction ebike I compared to. One such 30Ah battery pack might weigh close to 8 kg – as I noted in my older comment about long range, speedy ebikes – so you wouldn’t want two of these unless you absolutely needed them.

That comment also discussed the issues with building your own battery packs, and in your case would have aesthetic implications: some transit operators may be reluctant to allow an ebike if it is “too DIY” or otherwise objectionable. A mass-production ebike would not tend to have this issue, usually being very stealth in regards to the electric capability.

On the flip side, designing and modifying an ebike is a fun hobby, and I’m slowly throwing my hat into that realm. But I think we need to take one step back and assess what’s prudent: are you looking for a DIY project, for a modern mode of transportation, or both?

A custom ebike will accomplish both, but as you said it’s a lot of effort, being an exercise in electronics and lithium ion battery packs, but also in bicycle maintenance. If you already have prior cycling experience, then there’s no reason you can’t learn everything you need to know from the Internet. On the flip side, I’ve settled on my personal opinion that having an ebike today is better than waiting for an ebike in two years: time will continue to make them more capable, cheaper, and more accessible, but that’s also time that you could be spent riding. So if you can meet your needs right now with a mass-production ebike, then I’m poised to say that you should just go for it and don’t look back. But reasonable minds will differ on that front.

Since 1 kWh is not terribly outlandish for some readily available ebikes, I would suggest you call round or visit some local bike shops that stock ebikes and ask for the ones with the most battery capacity. The ranges will often be based on a 32 kph pace, but if that advertised figure is over 100 km, then your desire for 150 km might already be met.

Alpha71, 3 months ago

Thank you for your reply.

One thing I forgot to mention is my weight is around 330 lbs. (one of the reasons I would like to get an ebike is to lose weight.) As for the battery you can buy a 48v 30ah battery off of amazon. I’m not comfortable building my own batteries.

Also I am strongly considering this bike ANCHEER Electric Bike Electric Mountain Bike 500W 26’’ Commuter Ebike as the starter bike to buy.

litchralee, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Do you have previous cycling experience, or have you ever had a bicycle properly fitted to you? I ask because without knowing exactly how a bicycle is meant to fit, buying a bicycle online – electric or otherwise – may end up for a less-than-optimal ride, especially if you intend for this to be your main mode of transportation.

If you’re not familiar with all the parameters of fitting a bicycle, I would very strongly urge you to seek a reputable local bike shop (aka LBS) to get fitted for a bike. Walmart or big box stores don’t know how to do this, but a proper LBS has staff to identify and avoid problems before you ever roll out the door. Such a LBS can also sell and maintain an ebike for you, which will inevitably be necessary. Get opinions from multiple LBSs if need be. Some will rent you an ebike to trial.

Specifically for online ebikes, please see this advisory published by the California Dept of Fire and Forestry on lithium battery safety, particularly the (page 2) recommendation for only UL 2849 certified products. Charging safely is a major consideration now, and everyone wants to be comfortable using, parking, and charging their transportation devices. I don’t see any certification marks for that Amazon listing.

My current ebike predates the UL standard’s publication, so I have to be extra vigilant when charging, such as only ever during waking hours and only after inspecting the battery and charger each time for damage or voltage irregularities. Needless to say, this is not an ideal consumer experience, hence why going forward, the UL standard should be relied upon to relieve this heightened vigilance.

Also, for reference, here in California, the most inexpensive ebike I’ve seen for sale that complies with the advisory, is backed by a brand with a dealer/warranty network, and is actually practical for these roads would cost $1100USD. I would not expect to find a quality ebike in California for less than $1k, so I can’t see how that Amazon listed ebike at $857USD would deliver years of quality riding without excessive maintenance.

As an aside, you may want to aim for a 750 W motor if available. Output power is normally useful for quick acceleration, but it shows its real worth on hill-climbs as well. Granted, 25 kph is not a particularly fast hill climb, but it gets annoying very quickly if your ebike has to slow down to climb a steep grade, even with full throttle input, especially if the bike is heavily loaded.

Alpha71, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

The listed ebike is only to serve as a base for a better build. This way i would have something I could ride right away and slowly build a better bike from it. I would probably start with a new battery install using the aforementioned battery. and then installing a Bafang kit.I have no problem charging a battery during the day.

I’m 5’10 so most biikes would fit me no problem. The main reason I want to buy off of amazon is most local bike shops start at 4k CAD. The cheapest one i found is 3200 CAD. It was a clearance deal. At those prices I might as well get the Eahora Juliet.

sqw, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

good luck. i think it will probably be difficult to pack the target battery energy density into an ebike format. if you decide to DIY i’d be interested to see your progress.