Just started my ergo adventure, but I have questions...

I just got a ZSA Moonlander and I’ve been… on an adventure with it. Turns out my typing technique was total garbage so I’ve had to essentially start re-learning how to touch type. That, plus the ortho layout, plus the other ways my layout is now changed (special chars) has made the learning curve feel steep.

Going through all this has made me wonder some things about the long-term, and so I was hoping to lean on folks with more experience for some answers.

  1. Does learning to touch type on ortho (or a new layout w/ thumb clusters and such) mess with your ability to touch type on normal staggered boards? I still use my laptop when I travel and there is no shot I’ll be lugging around an ergo board.
  2. Is it worth going crazy with it and trying to learn workman or colemak at the same time? On some level I feel like it might not be that much harder, since it feels like I’m re-learning to touch type anyway.
  3. Would it be better to start with a keyboard that’s just split, but otherwise the same (Instead of ortho and alternative layout etc)? And maybe later move on to a crazier layout?
nopersonalspace,

Thanks all who replied and shared their experiance! For now, I’m going to learn colemak dh and keep trying on the learning curve. From what I’ve tried so far, it seems like my problems with the ortho keyboard were mostly due to my bad form on qwerty. Now that I’m learning colemak (with proper form) it seems like I can pretty much swap between ortho and staggered without much issue. Now I just have to build the muscle memory for the new layout!

gezepi,
  1. It hasn’t affected my ability to use a normal keyboard. Using my laptop to type occasionally probably helps with this.
  2. Can’t help you, I stuck with QWERTY
  3. My favorite feature of my ergo keyboard is the fact that it is split, so I could see the appeal of a split but otherwise normal keyboard. But, I would recommend sticking with the Moonlander. It took me 2 weeks until I was comfortable typing after I switched. Not fast mind you, just comfortable. Then maybe another month until I didn’t have to look down for special keys. Definitely a time investment, but worth it in my opinion.
YellowAfterlife,
@YellowAfterlife@lemmy.world avatar
  1. You can maintain a reasonably “normal” QWERTY layout if you regularly work with a bunch of different keyboards - e.g. mine looks like this on Sofle, and on Moonlander you could spread -_, =+, and brackets across some of those inner keys for added convenience (perhaps at a price of sometimes typing [ instead of a backslash).

I occasionally press Caps Lock instead of LShift on row-staggered keyboards, but that is a price that I am willing to pay - same-row Ctrl+Z/X/C/V shortcuts just feel too good.

The other option is to remap the laptop keyboard’s layout to be more like your Moonlander layout using system-level tricks (like registry/SharpKeys on Windows).

beeng,

I’m on the same journey.

I started with like 9wpm at the start, no shit, now I’m up to 60-70 after around 2 months.

If I’m in meetings at work or watching YouTube /tutorials I’m just practising on the side. Important to get the muscle memory and rolls going.

I’ve found going between words slow, but typing the words fast (after a small pause) helpful in gaining speed. It’s all about the rolls.

Once I forget about the keyboard a bit and don’t notice it for like 6months, I might try a new layout, but not rushing, I think even ortho split will provide much more comfort than I’m used to. Let alone the options for layers etc with ZMK

Corr,
  1. I think this has been answered pretty well by now, but I dont recall it being an issue until I went back to learn QWERTY after years of alt layouts.
  2. I think changing layouts is something you should do for fun/interest. It will not make you type faster and its a tough journey, although if you’re relearning how to type anyway it will be less noticeable. I said previous I was relearning QWERTY but that was just so I’m capable of using other peoples computers if ever I need to.
    I think it was fun to do and I just got back up to sorta close to my previous speed after 3-4 months of practicing a lot. All that said I’m glad I made the switch but just keep in mind it’ll suck for a bit and the benefits aren’t that huge.
  3. No. Go all in on eveything so you only relearn once.

Good luck on your journey!

jrbaconcheese,
  1. Absolutely; I type for shit on my laptop now, but I also switched to Colemak-DH in the last year. My keeb is an Atreus so I just take it with me now. It is totally worth taking it with me.
  2. I did it in phases. It took some time to get used to ortho, but while I was learning then I started moving individual keys around. Once I learned about whole new layouts, I moved to Colemak then DH. I’d recommend just switching now.
  3. I just went whole hog with a nice board, ortho, and new layout within about two months. In my past experience, the split was the least difficult to get used to.
folkrav, (edited )

Before: ~110-120wpm, but shit accuracy
Right after switching: <30wpm
A month after switching: ~60wpm
Now (5 years layer): ~90-100wpm

I also couldn’t type for crap on a regular keyboard after acclimating to my compact and ergo boards, but that came back. Now I’m able to switch between all of my boards (and my laptop’s built-in) more or less interchangeably. I don’t really care about the lost speed, it’s still plenty fast enough for what I do - I’m a programmer, I spend more time thinking about code than writing it.

FYI I switch between a regular 60%, my laptop, an Iris (so thumb clusters) and a Planck.

Nibodhika,
  1. Yes, but not by that much. I learned to touch type on a regular keyboard and switched to an ortholinear recently, it takes me a couple of seconds to switch back and forth but it’s mostly painless.
  2. Yes, and no. I learned colemak when I decided to learn touch typing, and I think that that’s the best opportunity to learn because you’re already learning as new way to type so a new layout comes easy. That being said I question whether that was a good decision, I don’t know how much of the improvements I see in ergonomics come from the layout and how much is from touch typing.
  3. I don’t think it would make a difference, you’ll still have to adapt to switch back and forth between ortholinear and staggered.
cerement,
@cerement@slrpnk.net avatar

several people have used the switch to ortholinear/columnar as a chance to learn a new layout (Colemak-DH being a popular choice) – from most of the reports, the context switching between QWERTY on row-stagger and Colemak-DH on columnar seems to be enough to keep your muscle memory from confusing the two

usually the biggest issue with switching to an alternate like Dvorak, Colemak, Workman, etc. is not the muscle memory but the availability of keycaps – you either have to shell out for an extra “typist” keycap set or settle on only using flat profiles (DSA, XDA, KAM, SA row 3, etc.) – if you are touch typing, it shouldn’t matter, but there’s still the aesthetics of the whole thing …

demesisx,
@demesisx@infosec.pub avatar

I’m about a month in on a Keyboardio Model 100 and I absolutely love the shape of the key caps.

I am in the process of building 2 Sofles (I’ll be looking to sell one) and the fact that my key caps from Keyboardio don’t fit the Sofle’s spacing has me considering modifying the sofle V2 to follow the exact spacing as the Model 100 so I can use the same amazingly sexy key caps on it.

cerement,
@cerement@slrpnk.net avatar

availability changes by month, but if you’re willing to go custom and don’t need legends, Asymplex gets a lot of rave reviews – most especially for their ChicagoSteno profile for Choc, but their DES profile for Cherry might be closer to the Model 100 profile

tarneo,

From my experience:

  1. I typed around 60 WPM before on a standard keyboard, now it’s barely 25. It may be because I don’t use standard keyboards at all anymore though.
  2. I learnt colemak with my first split keyboard since it seemed like if I was going to learn a new layout, then I should commit to it entirely. I think keeping AZERTY (since I’m french baguette haha) would have just made me even slower on standard keyboards because there wouldn’t be much difference with my normal workflow. Separating the two layouts entirely seems better to me, but you might also say keping the same layout to some extent is better.
  3. I went from a full-size keyboard to my monkeyboard, gradually removed keys (left row, top row, inner thumb keys) and now I’m at 34 keys with my triboard. But making the jump could also have worked seems it’s a complete change anyway.
thequickben,

Love my iris!

nopersonalspace,

By layout on 1 do you mean the actual changed keyboard shape (ortho etc) or the layout of the letters (ie colemak)? I actually feel less worried about changing away from QWERTY since I can always configure that on my laptop, but I can’t change the physical shape of my laptop keyboard haha!

tarneo,

That’s a pretty good point (with layout I meant both colemak and ortholinearity (is that a word?)). I do think it’s additional work to learn colemak on a standard keyboard, but I guess you could go for it if you think it would pay off. I just prefer having the same keyboard for all my computers.

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