What about the same communities on different instances?

Hi everyone,

I just joined and am now exploring this place. I noticed there already are similar communities on different instances. For example there is a vexillology@lemmy.world and a vexillology@kbin.social. Is there a way to "join" or "sync" these different spaces? Or will they just be separate?

I think It would be nice to connect places like these. As far as I understand it if one instance goes down all their communities disappear. With "synced" communities across instances this could be avoided since they act like a backup for each other.

So far I like it here and am looking forward to how this all works out.

Thanks everyone for contributing and running this place.

Aninjanameddaryll,
@Aninjanameddaryll@sopuli.xyz avatar

You gotta embrace it.

Federated space is not like reddit in that there is no single domain.

But it is like reddit in that there can be multiple communities covering the same topics within the fediverse, with different moderators, rules, subculture, and focus.

A perfect example from reddit is r/knives and r/knifeclub. They're the same thing, often with the same users, and very similar rules. But the vibe has always been different. Discussions go a different way nerdiest because the users aren't exactly the same. Both are wonderful.

Look at it like this, using another knife example because that's a hobby of mine. Bladeforums exists. Allaboutpocketknives exists. They're both knife forums. One existing does not mean the other isn't useful (though you might find arguments about either one lol). Neither of those takes away from r/knives existing. None of those invalidates YouTube knife channels (though most of those are crap tbh).

You'll also find that none of those places does anything significant in the way of connecting to each other.

That is where the fediverse shines. Everything here is inherently connected once discovered. There's places to find communities that have already been created. If you go to the "all" tab within your home instance, chances are that you'll run across them by accident in a similar way to reddit's r/all.

So, there's no need to connect communities on different instances by default. If /c/s decide to do so, that's awesome, but it's no more necessary then subreddits having a "similar subs" section in their sidebar.

Karmmah,
@Karmmah@lemmy.world avatar

Great points. I guess there will be communities that connect each other over instances for various reasons but in general it will just be a little different to what we are used to since it is something different.

captaindeank,

I hadn’t thought about it this way, and I definitely agree. Similar communities on the same topic may evolve to offer a different vibe or different focus. The more a user interacts with the communities, the more differences they would discover (and appreciate??!?). Or people might just get frustrated and give up. Who knows. We are all humans, I suppose.

TGRush,

These magazines are hosted on different servers, even though they serve the same purpose, yes.

I bet that people will naturally go to the magazines/communities that are moderated better or more active once everything settles down.

Karmmah,
@Karmmah@lemmy.world avatar

Oh, are they called "magazines" on here?

dexchemist,
@dexchemist@lemmy.world avatar

Custom feeds where you could lump content together from various communities on the account level would be awesome.

Gatsby,

On top of that others are saying they're different communities in spirit as well. They're not just duplicates.

tech@news.site has different content/focus than tech@linux.site, which has different content/focus than tech@cyberpunk.site

Kroxx,

Overtime I think we will see duplicate instances naturally disappear because one of them will become popular.

Karmmah,
@Karmmah@lemmy.world avatar

I was thinking about what if one instance shuts down for whatever reason. Then a lot could be lost. But in a similar way a subbreddit also had no backup if something would happen to them so they could already be lost. One can just hope that the instances will develop a solid funding/administration foundation to stand on so they will stay.

PriorProject, (edited )

They're different communities, just like /r/tech and /r/technology, /r/DnD and /r/dndnext, or the million different aita subs that popped up last month.

There is a GitHub issue for the Lemmy equivalent of a multireddit which would allow you to create a compound feed of several communities. Others have gone further and requested some kind of automatic merging, which strikes me as a pretty terrible idea... they're different communities with different rules and different mods and maybe different cultures. Sometimes they exist separately because the mods don't like each other or have very different ideas about what the culture should be. Transparent merging in such cases is awkward and creates confusion.

My advice is to consider the server name as if it were part of the sub/community name so that !this@that.com is just a different thing from !this@there.com. Dupe subs have always been a thing on Reddit, they're a thing here too. They will get better with time as community discovery improves and people aggregate in the active/well-moderated ones and the abandoned ones die off.

lnm225,

I agree, I believe there will be an organic selection process as the flood of rexxitors finds their preferred spaces.

bryce0110,

This issue on GitHub seems to have an interesting idea.

Instead of automatic grouping, what they're suggesting is a sort of "request" from one community to another to sync their content. So two similar communities that have two very different cultures could decline syncing.

PriorProject,

Yeah, I've seen that proposal. It's not all that much more compelling to me. If mods were willing to be grouped together, why would they not also be willing to merge their communities entirely and retire one of them? What compelling capability does three but kind of one communities give you that one community with three mods doesn't?

And more importantly, are those capabilities more valuable than the simplicity of people not having to understand these compound communities. Federated designs are generally significantly more complicated to use than "normal" designs. A sprinkle of federation in a system design is a very powerful hedge against individuals coopting the ecosystem, and that make the extra complexity worthwhile (to me, there are smart folks who say that federation is DOA because it's inherently too complex). But almost all people with experience designing federated systems agree that a heaping shovelful of federated system design makes a system an unusable mess of conceptual complexity that no one will bother to learn. It seems pretty clear to me that compound communities fall into this heaping shovelful category, and do no "pull their weight" in complexity. Reasonable people can disagree, but I both would not use such a feature unless I had to... and I think the lemmyverse would be better off without it.

Instead, it's my belief that devs should focus on improving community discovery so people naturally find the most active communities, low-traffic ones die off, and we eventually reach a mature state where... like reddit... even though community duplication is allowed... no one cares about it because the better run communities naturally grow and are easy to find. Improving community discovery has more powerful beneficial side-effects in other ways as well, and if done properly could reduce complexity rather than increase it as this proposal does. But to each their own, maybe other people see something I don't.

Karmmah,
@Karmmah@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks for the input. Maybe thinking about instances as "different things" is something that we just have to remove from our brains. Instead one could think of them more like "apps" (like RIF vs Apollo for reddit) since they all access the same platform, but influence which data from the platform you see and the way you see that platform.

PriorProject,

Maybe thinking about instances as “different things” is something that we just have to remove from our brains. Instead one could think of them more like “apps” (like RIF vs Apollo for reddit) since they all access the same platform...

Instances definitely are different things, they just happen to communicate with each other most of the time. I'm wary of too many analogies, but if you need one I think email is a better one than reddit apps.

  • Like email, you have accounts with a provider (gmail/yahoo vs lemmy.world/lemmy.ml).
  • Like email, accounts can generally communicate across providers (beehaw defederation shenanigans aside).
  • Like email, you can't use an account from provider-a to log into the website for provider-b. You can't use your google account to log into yahoo.com, and you can't use your lemmy.world account to log into lemmy.ml. But as previously noted, you CAN communicate with users from that provider... you just log into your own provider to do it.
  • Like email, different Lemmy providers might have slightly different rules for their users. Most of the time this doesn't matter, but sometimes it does. If you want to run a mailing list for 100k subscribers, you do that from mailgun and not a personal gmail account. If you want to run a sexysexsex community, you do it from an instance that allows that.

So that's a better metaphor, but mostly I think we need to move past metaphors and just learn what things are and what they do. When people taught your grandma how email worked, they used metaphors about the pony express, now people just know how email works. With federation, you're the grandma and people are using lousy metaphors to help get you started. But learn how it works and you'll be better off.

anaximander,

I started looking at writing a bot that comments on conversations with links to similar discussions happening on other instances, which might help these scattered discussions to find each other and join up.

ilikedatsyuk,

There’s currently no way to do this, but it is a common suggestion and multiple groups of people are working out potential ways to make it happen.

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