I’ll blow this place sky high (by not voting) if every one of my demands aren’t met! I’ll do it!
Demand #1: getaway car #2: public apology from George Lucas #3: Letter “M” stricken from the English language #4: 100% for true no-backsies peace in the middle east
I agree with your point and it’s valid. Problem is we will keep platforming these people until election day because it’s to the GOPs advantage and they have no moral quandary. At certain point we need to say, “Hey. Your point is valid but please can I redirect you toward a solution.” Without a solution we are fucked.
Solution can’t be, “ignore this genocide, please.”
Also, not voting means that everything bad that someone you didn’t vote for does is your fault. By the way, supporting genocide is more important than improving poll numbers.
<pausesatire> it’s not too much of a hyperbole to suggest that memes are deadly serious and it’s not a coincidence they have been used in misinformation campaigns and psyops. the arguments with strangers thing i’m 60/40 on tho for sure. </pausesatire>
Bro you don’t understand what happening. Joseph Biden is personally stopping peace between Israel and Palestine from happening. Like it would have been such a trivial issue to solve if Biden hadn’t personally decided that he wanted this war to continue forever and ordered Israel to do a genocide.
You’re so right, the situation is so complicated that biden just has to supply billions of dollars and military equipment in full support of the genocide! It’s just impossible to not support genocide. It’s so important that it’s worth sacrificing poll numbers to do it!
Yeah youre so right, because we all know the president is basically just king of America and can just do whatever he likes at all times.
It’s not like there are dozens of factions within even just his own party, many of which support Israel, or at least see them as an incredibly important strategic ally in the middle east who are basically our proxy against countries like Iran and also represent the security of American corporate interests in the region, and those corporations and their billionaire owners have massive influence over the government via individual politicians campaign finances and would bankroll Trump in a heartbeat if they thought Biden is going to ruin their relations in the middle east.
And even if that was all true. Biden is all powerful so he doesn’t have to care about any of that messy “politicking” nonsense.
Biden seems to have all the power in the world when it comes to supplying a campaign of genocide. Are you arguing that it takes more power to simply do nothing? Doing nothing would actually be an improvement in this situation.
I forget that reading comprehension isn’t a thing here.
No, Biden doesn’t really have the power to “do nothing” because, again, he isn’t King, has a loft of people of varying importance that he has to keep happy. Those people include people with close ties to Israel, staunch zionists, oil tycoons and “defence” companies that all put pressure on Biden to keep sending weapons to Israel.
And they are likely a powerful enough group to potentially sway the election. So if Biden just decided to do the moral thing and say fuck Israel, cut aid to them and accuse them of war crimes. He’s going to personally piss off that pro Israel faction and they will likely switch support to the extremely pro-Israel Trump.
So Biden will be having to weigh up making that decision, what actual benefits it will have (Israel still has a stockpile, they can buy weapons from other countries, would that just force them into a bloody ground offensive?) And wether that’s worth the potential ck sequence of those key people switching sides and possibly swaying the election for Trump who is strong anti-palestine and would undoubtedly make the situation far worse. And thinking about if he can use his position to influence Israel’s actions and help get aide into Palestine in a way that doesn’t piss off the pro Israel faction.
Please just take a breath and realise the realities of the highest stakes geo politics, is that doing the thing that obviously a good thing, ultimately might not be the best course of action.
I can read your dumb posts just fine. You sound like those people who claim that Putin just had to invade Ukraine. In case you haven’t realized it, genocide is bad, and trying to cover it up with “it’s complex” doesn’t make it any better.
Democracy is intended to make having the top job conditional on following the will of the people.
If a waiter says fuck you, you don’t get fries, I want to throw shit at you, they get fired.
If a president says fuck you, you don’t get basic human decency, I want to exterminate brown people, he gets fired.
THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SYSTEM.
If he wants to continue being president, he has to make with the basic human decency. It’s not a hard concept.
And if the guy who will surely get hired instead is a monster and it’s desperately important for everyone’s sake that he keep the job, then it’s HIS responsiblity to do the fucking job he’s hired for.
Every four years, there’s a performance review. People decide whether hiring the guy was a mistake - and if he doesn’t measure up, they don’t extend his contract.
You obey the people who give you the job, or you don’t continue working there.
The people want Biden to stop helping Israel exterminate Palestinians - and indeed, to put significant and effective pressure on Israel to stop doing it altogether.
If he won’t do that, they won’t vote to extend his presidency for another term.
That’s the entire point. That’s what democracy is for.
If your leader is being a piece of shit, you get to dump his ass. Otherwise, they could keep on being pieces of shit, and nobody could stop them.
It’s a vastly insufficient mechanism, but it’s the only one we’ve got.
Biden is being a contemptible piece of shit. He can stop doing that, or he can look for another job.
It’s not “this guy, yes or no”. It’s “this guy or that guy”. The position will be filled. You get to pick which of the two candidates gets the job, but there are only two candidates.
Given that all your complaints with this guy are also present in the other guy, except way worse, I think you should choose this guy.
'tis not doesn’t work. You need to actually make a case for your position.
People vote for you, or they don’t. Their reasons are their own - but if you’ve pissed them off and blatantly done things they didn’t want you to, chances are this will not go well for you.
When I was a kid I didn’t understand how people let a genocide happen. I mean, just go there and protest, disrupting everything you can until they’re forced to stop. Everyone’s against genocide, right? We should be able to get millions of people to completely flood the streets and prevent everything from happening, including the killing. Sure, they’d gun some of us down, but it’d have to be less than they’d kill otherwise.
Now I’m voting for the guy supplying the weapons.
Am I wholly supporting him and am complicit in everything he has ever done and ever will do? No, but I’m disgusted with myself, and always will be. I have the ability to put my life on the line for the sake of saving those who are losing theirs, and instead I vote for the guy handing out the guns. I have no right to be anything but disgusted with myself. If you can rationalize it and forgive yourself, that’s cool I guess, but I’m not going to give myself that out.
Innocent people - mothers, children - will be killed because of the actions of a man I voted for. The least I could do is feel bad about it. If people were being mowed down in my town by guns supplied by another country, I know I’d forever hate the people of that country for not doing something, ANYTHING, to stop it. Our country was founded by the act of stepping up to fight a government that doesn’t care about people. Look at us now.
I guess if you are voluntarily refusing to give yourself an out, that’s your right.
But you absolutely are not required to feel any culpability for this. The meme is satire. The system which precipitated the current crisis wasn’t a product of you, nor your generation, nor even the previous one. You are operating as a reasonable and honest individual looking out for their neighbor in a shitty fucking situation.
The evil and oppression of centuries of white capitalists, imperialists, colonialists and slaveowners is not a cross that needs to dig into your own emotional wellbeing, this point only strengthened by the fact that none of those oppressive scum ever shed a single tear for the terror they wrought.
Thank you for your honesty and courage in posting this. I wish you a bright today and tomorrow ♥️
I appreciate the kind words, but I’m only responsible for my own actions, and at the end of the day, I have the ability to buy a ticket to Israel or DC to start a protest there.
It wouldn’t do much good with just me, but maybe I’d drum up some support and get a few people to join me. That’s how movements start, after all - one person becomes a few, becomes a lot, becomes a force to be reckoned with. But I’m not doing that. I’m posting on social media just like the “thoughts and prayers” crowd.
This whole situation has shown me exactly how people can let atrocities happen - they simply don’t believe their actions would be enough to make a difference, so they sit and hope someone has the balls to do what they can’t bring themselves to.
For what it’s worth, internet protest is a thing too.
I don’t know about you, but I grew up basically permanently online, and I gained a lot of my current political insight from raw and honest comments just like yours. It might not seem like it, but there are certainly eyes taking in your words right now that might change the way they look at the situation. While the barrier to entry for internet posting is low, that doesn’t make the outcome value of it nill.
And check out some local protests. The media has made it so that you certainly don’t need to book a ticket to DC to make your voice heard. 🫶
By this line of reasoning you are personally complicit in literally every bad thing that anyone does. It’s stupid and you’re stupid for thinking it. Snap the fuck out of your martyr complex. You’re not important enough to be a martyr. You’re just a dude. The world does not rest on your shoulders.
I literally said I’m not complicit. I’m only responsible for myself, but I know that everyone is just some guy until they aren’t. I know every movement started with some guy who decided to try to make a change. The world needs some guy right now, but it’s not going to be me.
Personally, I plan to vote for Biden. However, everyone has a limit. I’m not going to blame, accuse, or get upset at all towards the people that choose to abstain from voting for a presidential candidate because they cannot in good conscience vote for a person complicit in genocide. I agree with their reasoning, but I cannot in good conscience abstain and let the country fall to fascism again. Complicity in genocide is a reasonable thing for people to say they won’t vote for the “less bad” option.
This, we need to respect other peoples decisions. You’re not going to win their vote by harassing them over their refusal to do so.
Moderates need to accept that they need to play nice with liberals. Attacking us for valid reasons for not voting, or even attacking those of us who are voting for said candidate while not being quiet about our issues with said candidate is not helping.
The moderate left is genuinely working down this path towards becoming aggressive as the far right at this point. We know you’re scared that Trump’s going to get in office, but when you reach the point of harassing other people over their choices regarding voting you’re becoming just as bad as Trump’s mobs.
I think you finally made me understand. You say “moderates” but see yourself as a real leftist. So it’s a matter of ideology to you, not of cause and effect.
But it wouldn’t make you a hypocrite to acknowledge that as fucked as the US democracy is, voting against orange guy could make a material difference. If the next US election was like so many others, just one run-off-the-mill neoliberal ghoul vs another, I’d say you do you. But Trump has the very real potential to be so much worse.
Trump is racist, sexist, anti-left, and anti-lgbt, and he wants to 1. be a fascist dictator and 2. make policies that punish those he hates. And the international radical left watches with abject horror that some of you don’t vote in for the guy who wants to keep women’s rights, immigrant rights, and rights for queer people.
People like yourself remind me of corporations dumping the blame of pollution onto the masses.
It’s the same concept here. Voters should not be the final line of defense against someone like Trump. There were so many possible stop gaps prior, so many times before this that something should have been done, and yet nothing was done.
Don’t get me wrong. Some of us realize that we have no choice, but the onus should have never been on our shoulders.
People like yourself are likely grateful for Trump if you ask me. Why stop him prior to the elections if possible when you can use him to forcefully fearmonger with real threats? You enjoy being able to grab the average American liberals face and shove it in the direction of Trump and say, “Look, this is what’s going to happen. Side with me or else.” The reality is that if we had two sane candidates and the DNC candidate wasn’t to our liking, then we’d be able to look away.
You know what the international radical left really watched with abject horror? They watched our political system and its corrupt officials allow Trump to get this far to begin with all so you could pin the blame on voters.
Why stop him prior to the elections if possible when you can use him to forcefully fearmonger with real threats?
So we can start shifting the country back to the left? It took the right 70 years to pull off what they have. I honestly don’t expect “the left” to be able to reverse it in any less. You have a lot of should’s and need-to’s in you comments but not a lot of “going to” or “do’s,” I think that’s really emblematic of the issue. The other commenter is right, you see yourself as “the actual left” even though you likely don’t actually participate in the process in any real way. You essentially do not exist to pols because you don’t actually use your voice, yet you get to preach to actual progressives who are trying to change things.
You enjoy being able to grab the average American liberals face and shove it in the direction of Trump and say, “Look, this is what’s going to happen. Side with me or else.”
Yeah, I love trying to explain basic civics to the terminally online and apathetic.
The reality is that if we had two sane candidates and the DNC candidate wasn’t to our liking, then we’d be able to look away.
I agree, unfortunately mobilizing the base (that’s you) to actually push for these changes is difficult. “The left” is plagued by in-fighting and it’s difficult to get them to agree on a goal much less the means to accomplish it. A couple states have implemented RCV and more are becoming aware of it. Organizers have pretty decent luck pushing things at a state-level if they can get their positions before the people but of course the right has every motivation to just maintain the status quo.
You have a lot of should’s and need-to’s in you comments but not a lot of “going to” or “do’s,” I think that’s really emblematic of the issue. The other commenter is right, you see yourself as “the actual left” even though you likely don’t actually participate in the process in any real way. You essentially do not exist to pols because you don’t actually use your voice,
You took the time to dig through my post history, so clearly you’d know I have intentions of voting, that I have voted before, and that I don’t simply vote in big elections, but rather at various different levels. I’m trying just as hard as you are, I’m just more understanding of those that aren’t, and I’m not defending all of my preferred candidates choices.
But hey, reading is difficult. Easier to come online and be an asshole.
I simply have more understanding of the general voting base. I’m not out of touch. Maybe if the moderates were capable of such they could convince people to vote.
Also do some self-reflection. You need it with the amount of hypocrisy you just blatantly dropped.
Sure, and you will understand when I say that this is an incredibly privileged position, and is a direct reason why abortion is no longer considered a fundamental human right in the US.
As long as you are willing to accept that moral liability then we are cool.
Only the respect they deserve and not a jot more. Those that paralyze themselves over absolute morality will get none should things get worse. Largely ignored should things stay the same or get slightly better. Because they were of no help to anyone, not even themselves.
You apparently have Biden confused with Netanyahu. Biden has been trying to get Bibi to stop his “over the top” response from the start. Now there is a risk of a regional conflict which would be really, really bad. Biden set conditions today.
If Israel suffers another October 7th after Biden withdraws aid, that’s the end of Biden. He must toe the line between continuing to support Israel’s defense while preventing their egregious offensive actions.
That being said just today Biden and Blinken publicly noted that they are now considering conditioning aid.
Israel is talking about invading Rafah and civilians are saying that the IDF is already there. I do not give a fuck about an imaginary hypothetical. Biden needs to stop providing offensive weaponry to the IDF and the settlers.
Oh now they are at least considering putting a condition on the aid… like what we do with Ukraine. Well as long as he keeps giving us words i am sure we can forgive the continual lack of action. Its also good that we can hand wave genocide as long as it helps Biden in the election! I was worried that i would have to not vote for Biden because of my moral compass. I guess the blood will be on the hands of the disenfranchised voters if Biden loses. And that Israeli lives are worth more then Palestinian. Glad you cleared that up. /s
Hahaha oh please, if this isn’t the biggest form of grandstanding meets concern-trolling I’ve seen in a long time… Spare me this armchair expert analysis from a position of comfort and doing substantively nothing.
But do contact the White House with your genius insight. I’m sure you’ve totally evaluated all aspects of this decision-making and totally aren’t missing variables, Mr.Dunning-Kruger. ;)
Like wise to you! We have every right to criticize Biden, and it’s our civic duty to do so and to vote as we will. Maybe next time we be allowed to strategically vote in order to get representation, oh but not this time because trump is the opponent, as if there isn’t a line of stooges in the republicans party waiting for him to die to co-opt his nationalistic hate mob.
As a matter of fact, the way i see it, if the democrats lose this election because they disenfranchised the voters, this would be a huge incentive to have an actual left candidate after the next 4 trump years. Which would benefit me in the long term. Otherwise we will be stuck in the “you can’t vote for who you want, if you don’t vote for the slightly less evil candidate, democracy will die” hole forever. And always shifting right in the process.
You seem to believe that progress and maintenance of the status-quo can easily remedy the damage done by a legitimate fascist regime as seen in the Trump party. Even if you got your dream candidate in after another 4 years of Trump, they wouldn’t be able to reverse the damage done – simply due to entropy, and quite possibly due to the fact that our Democratic system would be completely broken after another 4 years. I don’t see any evidence whatsoever that there is anyone who can rally the Trump cult base who has affixed themselves to his personality. DeSantis was supposed to be a more finely-groomed copy of Trump and he failed miserably. Republicans hitched their wagon to Trump and with him goes the party for better or worse.
By all means, try to influence Biden to further action. However the calculus is pretty simple:
If your goal is to minimize genocide, both in Palestine and Ukraine.
If your goal is to ensure that we don’t fall further into fascism.
If the choices on the ballot in November are a constant, regardless of anything else that happens.
If you understand the nature of entropy in that maintaining let alone building-upon a trillion-piece puzzle is exceedingly more taxing than smashing it.
If other guy is significantly-worse for Ukrainians, Palestinians, US, and the World.
If you understand the mathematical trend of FPTP and the Spoiler Effect.
… Then one understands the logical choice is voting for Biden and doing anything else from not voting, voting Republican, voting 3rd-party, writing-in – is utterly self-defeating and short-sighted to the aforementioned goals.
If you don’t understand these things, then yes, one might have built their ardent beliefs atop a house of cards.
Of course if Biden gets ahead of the polls, pulls aid too quickly, he risks jeopordizing the votes of nearly 7 million Jewish-American voters who still strongly support Israel. He risks losing independents who 1/3 side with Israel and 1/3 are undecided on whether Israel is going too far. So until you and I can convince THOSE people that what Israel is doing is wrong, then it’s natural for Biden’s team to be wary of losing those critical votes (who dwarf the Muslim population and dwarf the progressive population).
biden will push us further into fascism just as he has for the past 50 years. voting for him does not, in fact, ensure we don’t fall further into fascism.
i can believe the other guy is worse without believing its moral to help biden maintain power.
You say entropy dictates that the perfect candidate will not achieve leftward momentum. And you offer me… entropy in its stead. Great. By that logic there is no winning out come, just a march into tyranny, in which i get to decide the speed at which we fall! How delightful. If that is the case, then we should just cut to the chase and get on with the Revolution. Its better done sooner rather than later wile we still have some freedoms and the highest chance at success! And if it fails, then we have the result of the current trajectory anyways.
Or we can wrestle control of the Democratic Party. Start shifting that window heading back to the left.
No I offer you stability. If one imagines the complexity of our collective system as a trillion-piece puzzle, what you suggest is to simply let the side who has openly broadcasted that they intend to smash it with a hammer. What I offer is at least some semblance of stability; sure perhaps some pieces break off here and there. At best, it sets us up to be able to build upon that puzzle down the road. In this crisis when faced with the dichotomy between stability and chaos, yes I’ll take stability anytime. And even if one argues the former isn’t perfectly stable, it only has to be better when choosing between two inevitable outcomes.
There’s no evidence of some “Revolution,” impending – only more suffering and oppression. You seem to admit that your interest is not in caring about the suffering of Palestinians or Ukrainians. Unlike you clearly, I have kids to think about. Palestinians would rather just get the guy who has publicly resisted Israel’s actions as opposed to wholeheartedly emrbaced. Meanwhile Ukrainians know the fate of their country is at stake.
… And here you are trying to wax poetry about some violent revolution…? Please…
I’m happy to wrestle with the Democratic party… But there’s a time and place. That time and place is most obviously during primaries – especially during non-incumbent years when we are teetering on full-blown fascism. Moreover if you feel that strongly about it then be the change you wish to see and run for office.
Otherwise please stop playing chicken with full-blown fascism and trying to drive wedges among Biden voters. The only people thanking you are Trump, Putin, and Bibi. At the same time, Ukrainians and Palestinians weep.
Here i am mocked as an armchair warrior, with one hand dismissing my point of view and with the other saying that i don’t actually care because i didn’t do anything warrior like.
Your stability is poison, its complacency with the status quo. The status quo that is currently systematically harming the innocent.
You also claim that i have some anterior motive and am using Palestinian children as a pawn for some yet undeclared actual motivation. Turns out, i support Palestine for the same reasons i support Ukraine, and i balk at the restrictions the US puts on the aid we give Ukraine, just like i resent Biden for not doing it for isreal.
And the gall of accusing me of anterior motives when you openly state the reason you want stability is that its not your problem because it’s not affecting you or yours! Such unethical and short sighted thinking will damn us all.
Hey buddy, you threw the first punch in this thread; I was merely reciprocating the same tone I was dealt. If you don’t like it served back, then don’t dish it out. I will happily reflect the level of courtesy I am shown. Moving on.
What systemically-harms the innocent more is giving in to full-blown fascism. There is no group you’re trying to speak for – Palestinians, Ukrainians, or women who lost Roe thanks to Trump – who would legitimately do better under or prefer Trump over Biden. That’s pretty much the end of it and all that counts at this stage of the game.
In that respect stability is by no means poison; it’s a means to maintain what we’ve got lest we take further steps back – e.g., letting Trump stack the courts even more
It’s really insightful how you neglect to place blame on Republicans for blocking aid to Ukraine, while you name Biden specifically in holding aid for Israel. What a curious double-standard in levying blame.
you openly state the reason you want stability is that its not your problem because it’s not affecting you or yours! Such unethical and short sighted thinking will damn us all.
Don’t play strawman games with me, please; they are childish. Quite the opposite: you’re trying to speak on behalf of Ukrainians and Palestinians when they overwhelmingly support Biden over Trump and their lives are on the line. If Trump gets in, MORE genocide will occur for both. And in that respect, I am the one who cares about these two groups because I know that LESS genocide is better than MORE genocide when faced with an ultimatum between two inevitable choices. Evidently, you do not.
I don’t want trump to win either. What i want is either the Democratic Party to put up a candidate that is more progressive, or correct Biden on his current actions. My options to achieve that is by design limited. I voted against him in the primaries. Looks like it didn’t take. And now it’s letters to congress that don’t get read. And rattling my cage as hard as possible. Is the pattern that voting Democratic in the election is going to lead to maintaining the status quo, which is the slow march to fashism to stop the full on sprint. Both paths lead to failure. The alternative is too show my lack of confidence in the party the only way given to me… voting third party, which i know means a trump victory. “But now Is not the right time!” Ok then when will it be the right time to demand representation? Does anyone think that any future republicans will not be just as bad? There will never be a time where voting for the non designated candidate will end the world. So it might as well be right here and right now.
Things need to change, and i will do my damndest to pay the piper now and not foist the cost unto the children of the future like my ancestors did to me.
It seems that there is no hope for Palestinians, and the future looks to contain yet more violence due to our demand for “stability”
I hope the appeal to stability tasted bitter as you spoke it, that there was some pang of regret as a sign of empathy.
I think Biden should hear Palestinian advocates out, absolutely. And I think that is happening, don’t you think? Consider where the administration was post-October 7th and where they are now. We couldn’t dream of Biden saying “indiscriminate bombing,” or that conditioning aid is now on the table or the public anti-Bibi remarks. Now they are calling for ceasfire and even voting it instead of vetoing it – and now it’s being vetoed by China and Russia. A far cry from the hugs on the tarmac before. Which is what we all wanted, right…? Trump wouldn’t move, and all I’m saying is that such a position is playing a very dangerous game.
I am all for you advocating on behalf of Palestinians. I am not for claiming one won’t vote, will vote 3rd party, etc. That is self-defeating. If we can agree on that then we are good.
Like I said I can’t in good faith agree with the notion of voting 3rd party or independent. This first is precipised on the false notion that Biden and Trump are similar when the one is holding back leaks in the dam (and admittedly some liquid gets through) while the other intends to blow it up. In doing so, many people will suffer more – Women, trans, Palestinians, Ukrainians, my kids. You talk of revolution and choose to offer up my kids as sacrifice? You choose to risk even worse outcomes for both Palestinians and Ukrainians who are desperately hoping Republicans don’t get in power and all pathways to “reaching” the White House fall flat? Your letters may or may not be read, but it’s clear that Biden cares about shifting the issue relative to weighing the political gambit of losing less-informed voters who currently side with Israel. Welcome to Democracy.
There is certainly more hope for Palestinians under Biden than Trump, and these two choices are the only end-result. Voting third-party does fundamentally nothing but ensure more blood on your hands instead of less.
Does he hear Palestinian advocates out? I thought that when he condemned isreal, that was a preamble to action. Looks like i was wrong. It’s apparent that his condemnation was for my ears and not isreal. Hoping to appease the cage rattling long enough to get past the election and doing nothing to even mitigate the reason for why he is disenfranchising his base. He said ‘hey let’s not be super obvious about committing the genocide guys! Here’s more guns! If you keep this up i might make you pinky swear to not bomb humanitarian aid workers!’
Do i advocate that you and your children pay for the cost of change? You are damn right i do, because this is the time when i can pay my damn share. It’s unfortunate to be the ones who have to clean the mess of generations of such heinous evil, but someone has got to do it and at some time. So its right here, right now. by forestalling it, you put an even higher cost on your children and their children and their children. You want someone to blame? Blame the past generations, but they are not going to do anything about it. Your children are already paying for global warming, oh look at that Biden have more subsidies to expand oil companies, against his campaign promises. Didn’t stop him from making speeches about the importance of fighting climate change as we fail our obligations.
This really has nothing to do with trump, he’s the boogie man the democrats hold over us as leverage the enact things they actually care for and it’s not passing progressive bills. The next presidential election it will just be desantos. Same shit different year. You advocate staying on course which has lead us to this point, and wile i am not there yet, voting third party seems to be the only way out of the tantrum spiral, at the cost of a truly terrible 4 years under trump.
Our UN Delegation is no longer vetoing ceasfires – This was a demand of your group here just weeks ago
Biden just yesterday has now moved to conditioning aid. This is also an action.
Of course it may not be as quickly as you’d like, but you are also not privy to all information, polling, and expertise… And it is, indeed, action.
Sorry but I am just not convinced of this mentality. Look I’ve been there. I’ve been sub-22-years-old and full of spitfire, viva-la-revolution, Che Guevara posters – but those times are long-gone. Your path only spells widespread death and destruction and setting the country back literally decades. Even more people will be subjugated and even more people will be genocided.
So yes, between more or less genocide I’ll take less. Every time. Since I don’t even buy that you’re of voting age let alone American I just don’t take much stock in what you’re saying here.
So does your path lead to wide spread death and destruction, but with no action at all to make it subside. And you are right THE ACTIONS OF PEOPLE LIKE ME GOT BIDEN TO ‘TALK’ ABOUT DOING ACTIONS THAT MIGHT HELP. that means the cage rattling is working, so we best not stop until it is done. I am 35, i was unhappy at systemic injustice when i was younger but i am PISSED now. And for as long as i have been alive i have always heard those who say, now is not the time, win out over and over, and things have gotten worse and worse.
Seems to me the genocide is happening no matter who is president. So the claim that not voting Biden would be a worse genocide is laughable. What is trump going to do? GIVE ISREAL WEAPONS? IGNORE THE MURDERS OF HUMANITARIAN AID WORKERS?
Who knows? Maybe he would deploy the US military to show them how america does a genocide!
either way you do not offer a solution, only comfortable ambivalence. The insidious death of freedom. Maybe the realization that the Democratic Party must change to stay in power can survive 4 years of trump, for a better outcome over all. Or maybe not and there is no way out within the system. Or maybe with the party fracturing under his nose Biden will correct his course. He said he would and i I’m watching. so far i am unconvinced. And the threat of voting third party means nothing if there isn’t the will to actually do it. And the threat of holding isreal accountable means nothing with out the will to follow through
Whoa, let’s not get ahead of ourselves with a post hoc fallacy. Your cage rattling and threatening to vote for Trump (directly or indirectly) may not have done anything and it was just that the rest of the electorate starting recognizing what Israel is doing. Truly your time would be far better served not complaining about liberals or Biden and much better served holding these conversations with the undecided and pro-Israeli folk and convincing THEM. Thus, as you sway people into recognizing the atrocities of Israel, you see a reflection polling and henceforth a reflection in Biden’s actions in this thing called a Democracy where a broad coalition is necessary to win reelection.
Believe it or not there are degrees of genocide. There is less genocide with Biden and more genocide with Trump. Again, ask any Palestinian or Ukrainian whom they’d prefer in the White House to lessen the pain. To that point, if there is merely 1 less death under Biden than there is with Trump, then it is a logically and ethically-sound decision. As a result, I offered a solution: quantifiable, comparative logic. One is less than the other, guaranteed. I won’t entertain a blatantly false argument that Trump would be no worse than Biden. If you go there, this conversation is finished.
You are weighing lives of a future you cannot see or know. I can just as easily declare that forcing the Democratic Party to enact progressive legislation by risking their hold on power will have far reaching effects that will save more lives then those extra lost by a trump presidency. Remember that for this genocide to even happen the US had to enable it, and we did so 100% under Biden. I believe there was little else more trump could have done to make this worse. Biden prevented possible peace talks with his vetos. So i am not going to take your word on this genocide, Biden has done more than enough. No a trump presidency would be worse than another Biden’s for a million other reasons.
But the question is, in the long term, like a decade out, would righting the democratic course be better for all, even with the high cost of trump as president? Because when would they do it otherwise?
You can ask if i am just an anomaly, an outsider left, who prophesied either tyranny or revolution . Or am i the canary in the coal mine voicing a discontent that plagues the hearts of a large amount of people? I couldn’t tell you. We may have to wait and see.
But the more i think about it the more i am convinced. There must be change, one way or another. I just hope the frog isn’t boiled to death before it’s forced upon us. And my only outlet for that change is my vote. And i hope i get to vote for Biden
I can just as easily declare that forcing the Democratic Party to enact progressive legislation by risking their hold on power will have far reaching effects that will save more lives then those extra lost by a trump presidency.
I don’t find this comparable because because nobody can force the Democratic party to enact progressive legislation because this is contingent on these policies people popular among the majority of people, which they simply are not yet. In other words, you need to convince more of the electorate before you can even shift this. Whereas in my case, the future is set in stone: We will either have Trump, or we will have Biden. What’s more is Democrats literally CAN’T enact such progressive legislation because Republicans are obstructing any progress anyway, so I really have no clue what you’re saying here. Get Republicans out of the way, then Democrats would’ve implemented massive progressive policy long ago.
Remember that for this genocide to even happen the US had to enable it, and we did so 100% under Biden.
That’s not even remotely true, though. Consider Israel just starts pivoting into Russia or China’s sphere of influence and we lose any influence we have over Israel altogether. You think Israel can’t get weapons from elsewhere…? If anything, abandoning Israel too rapidly may have the entire opposite effect that you intend because now we have nothing to hold over them.
Let’s again not forget the dire consequences to Ukraine where genocide is largely being prevented by Democratic support to Ukraine (and nevertheless obstructed by Republicans) – and if Trump gets in, all aid is guaranteed to stop. So now you’ve got 2 genocides on your hands.
I hope when November comes we all vote for Biden lest we double-down on a downward spiral of entropy and doom generations to come as we take not just 1 step back, but 100 steps back and have to pick up the pieces of the puzzle yet again. For the sake of Ukrainians; for the sake of Palestinians; for the sake of my kids – everyone is holding their breath in hope of keeping some semblance of sanity in power lest we get the off-the-wall batshit crazy lunatics openly promoting a fascist playbook.
And by “complicit in genocide” you mean “navigating a delicate geopolitical situation by being a serious voice of restraint from the start?”
I swear, the singular thing which enables this nonsense on the internet is that these people know they will never have to actually lead or be held accountable for their outrageous policy positions as long as they continue to hold onto the privilege of their own armchairs.
Sending billions in weapons and money, and vetoing ceasefire resolutions helps the genocide along a lot more than talking to Bibi has stopped or even slowed it down at all. Actions are stronger than words. Poll numbers seem to only be the only thing that had pushed him to take this more seriously, too.
Also voting for the lesser of two evils makes you evil because less evil is still evil even though it’s also more good, but it’s not good enough so it’s evil and so are you.
Also politicians only really listen when they find out you don’t vote- really makes them want to work harder to impress you so you’ll vote for them.
The ones in office might- but who is in office if\when that happens determines if\how they react. Some might make the policy changes the public is demanding, others might call in the jackboots.
both will call the jackboots when really needed. biden made that threat to railworkers for example, and are constantly doing it to socialists, queers, blacks you name it. its just not shown on the msm.
both parties are subordinated to the same capital masters, hurt their profits enough and they will be forced to respond to us. resisting the jackboots is clearly but sadly a part of it, they aint letting us take away their power easily.
Let me know when the general strike starts. Until then I’ll keep voting for whoever isn’t actively trying to become a dictator to give you more time. It would be nice if you’d do the bare minimum to help with that but sounds like you have more delusional priorities.
thats not how it works. allow me to explain in good faith:
it did with the railworkers i just mentioned. but then some people got conviced by the “but the economy!!” rhetoric and they shut it down without resistance or questioning.
change are not built by a magical leader who somehow comes to save us its made by us. the leader is just someone at the right place and time to represent us. thats history.
the real delusion here is being comfy enough to think that choosing between two genocidal maniacs will somehow fix the trainwreck we are hurling towards. by all means, go scribble on a stupid fucking rigged ballot and see for yourself if it does anything to stop trump or something. (spoiler: he already won)
in the mean time i suggest you go learn how your own political system works, im not gonna waste that time on you anymore.
lol- okay then. You’ve convinced me you in particular probably shouldn’t vote so I’m happy to take responsibility for choosing who gets to spend your taxes.
Ok allow me to explain in real terms: 50% of the US thinks Donald Trump is a reasonable leader, and you think that you will somehow convince enough of these people to participate in collective direct action before you will convince them to just not vote for a fucking idiot?
if you consider voter turnout, its more like 20-30%ish. in my country, our trump-equivalent had about 25%. you wont convince most of them, and you dont need to.
you dont need the entirety of the population onboard. in fact you can see the amount of damage this 20-30% was and still is able to do.
the railroad strikes, what is their percentage of the population? that got them scared already. with results will come more supporters.
Not gonna lie this one probably would have gotten me if it was on any other post. I feel like it could use a few more unnecessarily large words to really sell it.
I didn’t vote last election and Joe Biden called me up and asked me what he had to do for me to vote for him and I asked for what any other red-blooded American would.
Add comment