fenarinarsa,
@fenarinarsa@shelter.moe avatar

Currently finding out that the Mockingboard design is shit and most of it is useless

polpo,
@polpo@bitbang.social avatar

@fenarinarsa This is making me want to make a PicoMockingboard more than ever...

fenarinarsa,
@fenarinarsa@shelter.moe avatar

@polpo I'm going to actually disconnect the AY output from the preamp and everything else on the board and feed it directly to my PC line out. It looks like the various capacitors actually f*ck up the signal.
The MB4C does not have capacitors and the audio output is crystal clear.
Also it seems the AY already outputs a line level audio signal, no need for a preamp or anything else.

This is a design for standalone speakers like the original one of the A2.

deater78,
@deater78@mastodon.social avatar

@fenarinarsa
yes the capacitors make some sort of low pass filter that kills the bass. I've had zx spectrum people complain at me that the mockingboard I'm using ruins their music

fenarinarsa,
@fenarinarsa@shelter.moe avatar

@deater78 I don't really get what happens.
I captured a normal bass line directly from the AY output, only connected to the ground through a resistor. And it's still broken.

It shouldn't happen... maybe I need to really remove all capacitors from that board.

At this point, this old MB design is useless anyway.

fenarinarsa,
@fenarinarsa@shelter.moe avatar

@deater78 Mockingboard 4C vs RM Mockingboard

The MB4C uses YM2149 chips but that shouldn't make a difference on that kind of standard envelope.

deater78,
@deater78@mastodon.social avatar

@fenarinarsa I wasted months trying to track down sound issues with the Mockingboards I have, there's a short writeup of it here:
http://www.deater.net/weave/vmwprod/chiptune/mock_problem/

It was worse with some AY chips than others, almost suspected either counterfeit chips or else damanged pulls somehow. Never managed to track down what was going n.

fenarinarsa,
@fenarinarsa@shelter.moe avatar

@deater78 so you solved it by making the code faster? Strange because I think we’re already really fast and we never got issues with it. Will have a second look.

deater78,
@deater78@mastodon.social avatar

@fenarinarsa
I don't think I ever solved the problem.

I did modify my code so it actually met the deadlines set in the AY-3-8910 datasheet (really hard to do with a 6522 running at 1MHz) but I don't know if that helped

eventually I just tried AY chips until I found a set that wasn't as bad at the others

I wonder if the AY chips you get off ebay are rebadged YM chips or something else, seems unlikely they'd bother to counterfeit them though

fenarinarsa,
@fenarinarsa@shelter.moe avatar

@deater78 I guess the only thing I have left to try is to replicate another computer output design and see what happens (like the ZX spectrum or CPC)
it's only a few resistors but I need to actually cut traces on the MB to do this. Oh well.

deater78,
@deater78@mastodon.social avatar

@fenarinarsa I think all the recent reproduction mockingboards have AYs from the same source, as they all have similar chip markings. I was hoping to eventually source an "original" mockingboard from back in the day to see if an older chip would be better.

I also was trying to get some of the people who decap chips as a hobby to do some AY ones but apparently it's not interesting enough

fenarinarsa,
@fenarinarsa@shelter.moe avatar

@deater78 too bad I cannot swap them for YM, I have a bunch of them. I could have validated or not the rest of the design :(

fenarinarsa,
@fenarinarsa@shelter.moe avatar

@deater78 Well actually the MB4C which use two YM2149 doesn't have any issue... but it looks suspicious to me that nearly all AY-3-8910/13 have issues

xtof,
@xtof@shelter.moe avatar

@fenarinarsa @polpo I plugged mine on stand alone speakers and the sound is still not very good 🥹

fenarinarsa,
@fenarinarsa@shelter.moe avatar

@polpo If that works, yeah it would be convenient to make a new board with the minimum required. Which means half the board can be dumped, just keeping the VIAs and AYs

polpo,
@polpo@bitbang.social avatar

@fenarinarsa that'd be great. Those SSI chips are pure unobtanium at this point, right?

root42,
@root42@chaos.social avatar

@polpo @fenarinarsa there seem to be replacements available:

https://www.virtualnextpoint.it/pinball/sc01.php

But maybe you could design your own RP2040 based SC01 clone, Ian? :)

fenarinarsa,
@fenarinarsa@shelter.moe avatar

@polpo Ah yes. I'm not interested in getting them anyway.

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