New twitter logo just dropped. Let's call a spade a spade.

Disclaimer: I know the flag looks like shit. I didn’t really try and make a well done, symmetric n**i flag. The entire point is to illustrate the general intent, not to make a symmetric “asshole flag”.

Edit: the sample size isn’t that big yet, but around 20% (19.51% as of this edit) of downvotes is definitely uncannily aligned with the average percentage of far right voters… (I’d show data from the US too, but you guys haven’t yet learned how to count to three in politics… So data is severely lacking.)

Tb0n3,

What’s a n**i flag? Do you have some disability that keeps you from typing words you don’t like?

plutolink,

This is the biggest schizopost I’ve seen on here yet, holy shit LMAO.

icepuncher69, (edited )

Reminds me of that godawfull movie foodfight. The bad guys had a similar flag and where called the X brand. Paralels are uncanny.

Dubious_Fart,

It took me far to long to realize this was mocking, and not actually legitimately the new logo.

Which says a lot about Musk, i think.

canis_majoris,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

This is dumb as fuck. There’s so many things to make fun of Musk for and you need to resort to Godwinning? That’s not only unfunny but it reduces that validity of your complaints against the guy who deserves to be flamed because your hyperbolic shouting and claiming everybody you disagree with is a nazi discredits your position immediately.

Yeah, Musk sucks. Yeah the X is dumb. Did it need to be photoshopped into a Nazi flag to be described as dumb? Nope, the entire rest of the site has been hating on this guy without needlessly Godwinning.

doggo, (edited )

It is known by now that Musk sympathizes with many alt-right figures and actively uses his position to censor people on Twitter.

I would not agree that Twitter has become some nazi site, but it can be clearly seen that nazi ideas are more welcome now than before the whole Musk takeover.

canis_majoris,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

Twitter was always a cesspool, and regardless of if the majority of opinions are left or right leaning, it’s a toxic environment no matter who is at the head of the hydra.

Prior to the Musk takeover it was a leftist echo chamber, and there was all kinds of witch hunting and cancellations based on groupthink.

I don’t think either extremes should be given a platform, and all I see on Twitter is that Musk leveled the playing field so that both sides get to shout as much vitriol as they want.

Sunforged,

Twitter was always a cesspool

Correct.

and regardless of if the majority of opinions are left or right leaning, it’s a toxic environment no matter who is at the head of the hydra.

Correct.

Prior to the Musk takeover it was a leftist echo chamber, and there was all kinds of witch hunting and cancellations based on groupthink.

Correct.

I don’t think either extremes should be given a platform, and all I see on Twitter is that Musk leveled the playing field so that both sides get to shout as much vitriol as they want.

See and now you just compared dumb liberals calling for cancel culture comparative to right-wing radicals calling openly for murder and worse. “Either extremes”? What an enlightened centrist you are good sir.

Snapz,
@Snapz@beehaw.org avatar

I don’t think your outrage is founded. I this case, musk has a clear personal tilt towards eugenics/natalism, his formative years were in apartheid South Africa, his businesses are in court for creating racially hostile/segregated workspaces and many twitter accounts outright stating Nazi sympathy and promotion were unbanned and boosted when he took over and decided that was a needed change.

You speak with many !!! but I don’t think you’ve actually thought out your position. This is more of a gut response you had chambered to any nazi accusations - this one isn’t a home run “smoking gun”, but the accusation definitely has some merit.

canis_majoris,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

It’s outrageous that we’ve gotten to the point where the only thing we can do is shout at each other. There are no civil discussions anymore. I walk into a thread like this, speak my peace, get insulted and do some insulting. Ultimately it’s not productive for anyone, because nobody is convincing each other of anything, they’re just yelling labels and names at each other.

When everybody is super, nobody is.

When everybody is a nazi, nobody is.

When everybody is a communist, nobody is.

Shouting these terms has basically lost all meaning.

Snapz,
@Snapz@beehaw.org avatar

You can’t “oh I guess everyone is a Nazi then!” when we’re discussing actual nazis.

It just makes you look like a silly little bean.

canis_majoris,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

1 point, 1 week ago (last edited 1 week ago)

PowerCrazy,

Elon sucks and I’m glad he is destroying twitter, but being obsessed with “X” because he is a moron who thinks X is cool doesn’t mean that the new twitter logo is a nazi logo. Additionally if you put literally any monochromatic logo on a red field within a white circle it will kind of look like a Nazi flag. Stop being intellectually lazy.

7heo, (edited )
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

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Dubious_Fart,

the wooosh with him was so strong that I think it provided 3 days of clean, green energy to all of europe.

7heo, (edited )
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

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canis_majoris,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

This comment is a perfect microcosm of smug rudeness. You want to know why people are running to the extremes? It’s because you treat people like shit and then expect them to agree with your ideology when you’ve berated them and belittled them for disagreeing. It’s not a conversation, it’s not a discussion, it’s just insulting.

7heo, (edited )
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

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canis_majoris,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

The problem is that your radar is broken and you are flagging everybody as a Nazi. That’s not productive and I would argue it detracts from most of your messaging. You keep throwing around terms like “intellectual deficiency” and then wonder why people are rejecting your premises.

7heo, (edited )
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

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masquenox,

You want to know why people are running to the extremes?

People joining the far-right has nothing to do with white supremacism or the institutionalized worship of authoritarianism, nationalism or militarism … it’s all because someone made a meme that hurt someone’s feels.

canis_majoris,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

It all adds up. The reason these people flock to the far right is because they don’t see any other options. They’re lonely, sad, with little to no support networks. The far right preys on people like that to convert them to their cause. I remember when it started happening in World of Warcraft. It’s totally changed the entire landscape of the gaming community. It definitely doesn’t help when the other side is constantly name-calling. I certainly have a hard time reasoning with somebody who’s already made up their mind and started hurling insults.

masquenox,

The reason these people flock to the far right is because they don’t see any other options.

Yeah… because they’ve been indoctrinated into accepting the right-wing view of the world since birth - after all, we are all “westerners” here, aren’t we? We are “democratic” (which we’re not), we are “civilized” (which we’re not), we are “free” (which we’re not), we are “non-racist” (which we’re pretty damn obviously not) and we are “individualist” (which, again, we’re not). You can blame the memers and the people calling nazis nazis all you want… but they are not the people responsible for laying the groundwork that allows right-wing ideology to flourish and fester. That’s something that is built into white - oops, I meant to say “western” - society. That is why they are so easily triggered into supporting right-wing politics.

And then we haven’t even started talking about all the wealth and privilege that is funding all of this right-wing ideology - but sure… let’s blame memes.

Fish,

God, people like you are so annoying. Maybe Elon just is just a dumbass who likes the letter ‘X’. Not everything has to be a conspiracy. Go touch grass.

Limitless_screaming,
Limitless_screaming avatar

There is another flavour of right wing out there. Also Xorg is a little old, but it's not that bad.

7heo, (edited )
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

expired

Limitless_screaming,
Limitless_screaming avatar

Yes, it is. Some people think it is Xorg vs Wayland, well, that would make Xorg devs double agents.

Zozano,

I think you need to take a step away from whatever bullshit you’re engaging with online.

I had a friend who would became obsessed with knowing everything about the alt-right. He started seeing false dogwhistles. If someone sent him a message with 👌he would assume they’re a Nazi.

I think Elon is a prick who caters to the right of politics, but I don’t think he’s a Nazi or a fascist. Every time the left becomes too hyperbolic about who is a Nazi, the right uses that as ammunition.

sensibilidades,

Every time the left becomes too hyperbolic about who is a Nazi, the right uses that as ammunition.

That doesn’t even matter, they will literally use anything as ammunition. There isn’t a “more” or “less” convincing set of arguments they use to make their point, they just say a lot of things all the time and go with what seems to stick.

Zozano, (edited )

I’m kinda in agreement with you. The right has a seemingly limitless supply of ammo, but I don’t see that as a case for not caring if someone gives them more.

All it takes are bad slogans to entrench their beliefs. “All cops are bastards”, “math is racist”, “defund the police”, and “all white people are racist” make them think the left are insane.

More than anything, this is a war of optics, the left are more educated, more tolerant, more generous, and if we are going to deconvert anyone from the right, we need to show them we aren’t morons.

Reflexively jumping to Godwin’s law is the fastest way to lose.

DessertStorms, (edited )
DessertStorms avatar

the left are more educated, more tolerant, more generous,

You're clearly not actually a leftist, but it's also clear why you'd like to consider yourself one.
Here's a free tip: you are none of things you describe if you're willing to "give Nazis a chance".

Zozano,

Where did I say I was giving Nazis a chance?

Also to claim im not “actually leftist” is a No True Scotsman fallacy.

7heo, (edited )
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

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TokenBoomer,

I agree. Whether through ignorance or maliciousness, these people will turn you over to authorities to be camped or killed. Yeah, they’ll cry about it after, and tell themselves they’re doing the right thing.

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

Yeah, they’ll cry about it after

you're giving Nazi sympathisers far too much credit there.

Zozano,

This is the hyperbole I’m talking about. This is a metaphor. All metaphors break down when you start looking for discrepancies.

Maybe I don’t see a problem with sitting down at a table with 9 Nazis because they’re friendly with me and I’m curious about why they believe they’re right (and maybe I can use the Socratic method to make them question their beliefs). That doesn’t make me a Nazi.

7heo, (edited )
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

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Zozano,

Lol I’m actually very far left, and self identify as a communist. How would 9 Nazis being polite to me, make me a Nazi?

Is Daryl Davis a Nazi for befriending Nazis?

DessertStorms, (edited )
DessertStorms avatar

Lol, and Hitler self identified as a socialist, your point?? You calling yourself the thing doesn't matter if you don't act like the thing you're calling yourself.

And Musk is acting like a Nazi.

As for how being polite to Nazis makes you (and Elon) a Nazi - you're enablers, making you actively part of giving them power. You're making them feel welcome when they shouldn't be welcomed anywhere. You bolster their confidence and allow them a platform to spew their hate from, and they do. Clearly that hate isn't aimed at you (and it definitely isn't at Musk) so obviously you don't give a shit, but some of us aren't that fucking privileged.

I'm sure you're familiar with the paradox tolerance and are choosing to ignore it, but it talks exactly about people like you.
And people like you look like this to the rest of us on the left.

Zozano, (edited )

The paradox of tolerance presupposes the people in question have political motivations in line with something like fascism.

I simply don’t agree with the presupposition that Musk is this way inclined, so it’s a moot point.

I don’t know why you think I’m enabling Nazis. What did I ever say to give you that impression?

masquenox,

I simply don’t agree with the presupposition that Musk is this way inclined, so it’s a moot point.

If you enable nazis, you are a nazi.

chaogomu,

The main difference is that when Daryl Davis is done with them, they aren't Nazis anymore. He's actively working to better the world, one person at a time.

Elon Musk sits with Nazis and then does nothing to get them to change. No, he just gives them a louder bullhorn.

He's really showing his Apartheid roots.

Zozano, (edited )

As I mentioned earlier, metaphors are pretty useless when you begin applying specifics.

“Would you jump off a cliff if your friends did it?” I trust my friends would jump off a cliff for a good reason, maybe they were running from something, so yes.

It was absolutely the wrong move to let Kayne back on the platform, and Elon is an asshole, for this, and basically everything else he has ever done.

But epistemologically, we don’t have good reason to suspect Elon is ascribes to Nazi ideology. He could’ve let Kayne back on for many other reasons; maybe he gets off on the attention (likely), maybe he just likes kanye (likely), maybe he’s a free speech absolutist (likely - unless it’s critical of him specifically (see jet tracker and parody accounts)).

ondoyant,
@ondoyant@beehaw.org avatar

right, but he did let the person who said nazi shit and went to go talk to a nazi (Nick Fuentes) back on the platform, he has overseen a massive increase in hate speech on the platform, he does comment in support of people demonizing queer identities, and he has used his power in a number of ways to silence his dissenters, so we can say that he demonstrably isn’t a free speech absolutist, he likes people who like nazis, and he is comfortable courting the favor of nazis. i think we can say that he fits the definition of a nazi sympathizer without much stretching at all.

Zozano,

Maybe, the point is not to say that he isn’t, just that I require a high standard of proof to say that he is. I don’t know why everyone is getting their panties in a twist, I already know he’s a bad guy, I just don’t think he checks off the requirements to be a fascist or Nazi.

canis_majoris,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

There are no other insults anymore. You’re either a communist or a nazi. That’s it. There’s no more in between.

Zozano,

So goddamn ironic that I started this all by saying that there are people who focus so much on what the alt-right is up to that they see Nazis everywhere they look. And then people start accusing me of being a Nazi lol.

All while ignoring the hypocrisy of putting the centre-right on blast for calling everything they don’t like “socialism/communism”…

canis_majoris,
@canis_majoris@lemmy.ca avatar

All the flags are red if you’re wearing rose tinted shades.

plutolink,

People can be around others without instantly becoming whatever the others are. You probably don’t know about being your own person though, clearly.

Obstagoon,
@Obstagoon@lemmy.world avatar

Whaddahell does this have to do with cats? Also this is just dumb for another reason but you’re free to express it :P

7heo, (edited )
@7heo@lemmy.ml avatar

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