What do you guys think of the idea of smart homes? I could make a basic setup using https://home-assistant.io to control my home temperature and lighting; the tools for doing this are everywhere nowadays and implementation doesn't seem too horrific anymore.
But setting aside what I "can" do, is this something that I "should" do? How can a person implement this without connecting any devices to the internet?
You can (mostly), but it involves more user input than the commonly advertised (google/alexa/etc.) integration.
You can choose sensors/actuators that run on protocols that don't touch the internet. Zigbee, Z-wave, rtl_433. The communication and data are local-only, from the device, to a transceiver on your automation host device. Home Assistant is a good place to start for the host, as others have said.
For some others that require networking of some kind, you can silo them. Put them on a VLAN with limited or no internet access, or just manually set the IP address without a valid gateway (not suitable for kit that is at all suspect).
For ones that must connect to some server owned by the company somewhere, the best bet is to just not buy them! Personally, I do everything I can to avoid kit like that. I absolutely loathe the idea of a device needing to phone home for basic functionality. It's just begging for the company to start charging, or even shut down the servers and leave you with a brick. Unfortunately, it means a lot of onus on researching kit before buying.
Best comment here. Smart home is lot of fun if you plan it out in advance. I jumped in with a few random purchases, but trying to cobble everything together can be difficult.
Oh and avoid Google at all costs. It's flashy and neat, but in 6 months they'll cut support and you'll have a brick. Even my Nest thermostat loses functionality fairly regularly just because reasons.
They aren't issues, it's more things like poking holes in their walled garden. Like if you want to automate your thermostat outside of their app, or use home assistant, or anything else it's just 1) difficult and 2) brittle. They'll break apis randomly, make you jump through all kinds of crazy hoops.
I'll also toss out that if you privacy and non-annoyance are your goals with an out of the box voice assistant, the only real option these days is a HomePod. I built my smart home with combination of Echos throughout the house, and I pretty much regret it now. I wasn't as worried about privacy, but these things are so fucking annoying these days. "Start a timer for 5 minutes." "Okay, do you want to play some bullshit trivia game while you're timer is going?" No, never. Ever. I mean, at least she'll still turn the lights on without spouting back something dumb, but that's just about it. Probably what I'll be doing now is still using the Alexholes as a speaker target with the mute button on all of the time (better spotify integration) and start replacing with siri balls.
Yeah we went with google homes early on and from what I hear they aren't nearly as annoying - but Google is already starting to hint at dropping support for earlier models. I'll look into HomePod, if I did any new ones I'd use something self hosted. I bet at somepoint we'll be able to flash them.
Have you looked into what Home Assistant has been doing with voice lately? This is what I'll be using to finally turn my Echos into muted speaker targets:
You can even turn old analog phones into HA "microphones" - just pick up the BatPhone/hamburger/banana phone, say "It's movie time" and hang up, and HA will convert your voice to text and run your "movie time" automation.
It's not a jetpack, but it certainly FEELS like living in the future...
I have found luck with Ikea smart bulbs. They don’t need to be connected to the internet to operate.
Tp-link devices are notoriously bad about connecting to the internet. There is no way to operate them without an internet connection. On top of that, each device connects independently so even when you have a vLAN, there’s extra steps required each time a new device is set up.
Using home assistant since 2017. As you add stuff there’s more synergy, like a network effect. I have automations and services that:
Adjust the bathroom floor thermostat according to the prevailing hourly energy price
Adjust the colour temperature of lighting during the day so blue light is reduced in the evening, allowing natural melatonin production to function
Announce on a local speaker when our child gets to school in the morning using their phone location
Operates festive lighting in the winter with reference to sunset and sunrise
Turns off all lights when leaving; or sometimes if I’m feeling more paranoid
Replays lighting patterns from a previous week to simulate* occupation
Sends me an alert if motion is detected and nobody’s home
Turns off the picture on the TV if nobody’s in front of it for a while using a 60GHz radar sensor
as well as a few other things. I don’t want a smart home that’s just remote operation with a phone. I want to use capabilities to automate things so I don’t need to be concerned about them.
The only smart objects I have are some light bulbs. I think, some processes are good to automate and put software in control of, and some things I want to have explicit control over (I.E. Door locks, Safe locks, AC settings, Heating). Technology can break in fantastical ways, but a lock should just freaking work.
I've been using smarthome stuff for quite a while now, and my conclusion is this:
You absolutely have to stay local. Home Assistant is the only software I know that can pull that off at the moment, but never ever use commercial devices that have to talk to their servers. Once the servers are down or your internet connection is down, those devices are just bricks, and you don't want that at home.
The setup is only really usable by the person who set it up. If you're living alone that's fine, but anybody else will have a hard time tapping in your secret code to turn on the lights. All trained behavior like pushing a light switch to turn the lights on and off are violated in a smart home, even if it's just because the delay between pushing the button and the lights going on is increased by 100ms.
You have to monitor battery levels of sensors and replace them to keep the system working. There are dozens of coin cells in your home, they are going to run out eventually (after a few months).
Have a fallback mechanism when the network goes down. It's not great when you can't turn on the lights to check why the WiFi router isn't responding.
All trained behavior like pushing a light switch to turn the lights on and off are violated in a smart home, even if it’s just because the delay between pushing the button and the lights going on is increased by 100ms.
This is only true if you're controlling bulbs instead of switches. Virtually all of my lights are on z-wave switches that work almost exactly the same as regular switches, the only difference being that the switch paddle doesn't stick in an on or off position. Smart control is strictly in addition to the primary control.
Completely agreed on your other points, though. Absolutely no chance I'd use anything other that a local Home Assistant server that handles all processing locally.
I've installed an Aqara wall switch in a public room, and people are complaining that it doesn't feel as well as a regular light switch. It's really hard to get it right.
Yeah, unfortunately there's not much that can be done there, at least not without adding little motors to the switch so it can match state with whatever it's controlling. My experience has been that there's an adjustment period, but eventually it's not a big deal. Sort of like switching to paddle switches from toggle switches; at first it's different, and people don't like different when it comes to things they don't think about, like light switches. But eventually the new thing becomes normal, and it's not a problem anymore.
That said, the z-wave toggle switches are garbage, it's much easier to adjust to paddles.
Smarthome well done is good and I think it will be necessary to tackle some challenges of the future - we need smart solutions to use ressources much more efficiently.
But: 85% of all smart home products are neither smart nor good. They are glorified remote controls. Nothing more.
AMAZON ALEXA IS NOT A SMART HOME PRODUCT.
A smart house doesn't need you to use your phone/voice/etc. to turn down the blinds or switch on a light. It knows when the blinds need to be where depending on your location, the weather (blind based cooling in summer, heating in winter), the time, etc. It inherently doesn't need a internet connection to control itself - it only does need the internet to expand its knowledge of the outside world,e.g. by getting disaster alerts, weather forecasts or off-site-location. When done this way there isn't much "hacking" that can be done. There aren't many components that can turn into botnets.
This is all possible for ages and it is all easily achieved - KNX and other systems are good examples. Matter can possibly achieve that. But currently it's the big hype to call everything that can be voice controlled smart.
For fucks sake. It takes me longer to say "Alexa turn on the living room lights" than to do it myself or use a Clapping sensor from the 80ies.
You can connect devices locally now. Eg. Zigbee/Z-wave network protocol without the need to use the internet. I know some builders started to implement smart devices for Apartments in the city which is easy to set the standards but for individual homes, would be harder to sell as it's costly..
Buddy of mine moved into a new apartment and they have a couple of "smart features": Temp, blinds, lights. No cameras (except the front door) or other fancy stuff.
However the apartment can be reached from any browser with a hash. So if you know the hash, you can easily access his apartment controls. No password, 2FA or anything necessary to identify him.
When he told me I was looking at him with wide eyes and he just laughed and said "Yeah, I know.".
I mean, you'd have to guess it and that's the hard part, but if you can, you can probably also guess the hash of all other apartments. Unless they add some random string into the hashable info, you can guess your own hash with your own apartment info (every apartment has a house ID and apartment ID etc.).
Would be a funny weekend project to see if we could get anywhere with it. He could turn down the heat from his neighbors.
Smart homes sound good in concept and I'd love to have one if there weren't so many risks. But an entire home that can be controlled via computers just sounds like an opsec nightmare. Obviously there's the plus that your average technologically illiterate granny isn't going to be using these so it will most likely have strong security systems. But hackers love a challenge.
And a whole neighborhood? A systemwide attack could happen disrupting entire swaths of a city's residential zone. Imagine showers suddenly spraying boiling water, targeted attacks on epileptic individuals with flashing lights, temperatures dropping to below freezing or up to dangerous levels of heat or lightbulbs overloading sending broken glass everywhere, speakers bursting eardrums.
Not to mention more subtle dangers of such voice activation systems being accessed by malicious actors, or more likely, corporate concerns. Someone gangstalked or targeted by powerful people who could just court order one of these smart home companies to hand over the data and they probably will without fuss.
The attack surface of a single electronic device is massive, with dozens of different apps and services, each with different system vulnerabilities to exploit that's already hard enough. But just imagine the attack surface of an entire home! Everything from the LG Flatscreen in your living room, to the temperature control systems, to your Apple Smart Toaster can be hacked to gain access to the rest of the system. If any one of those isn't completely secure (which of course is a pipe dream) then it could be the gateway to a smart home hacking story on a Defcon panel.
And finally, what's stopping the company from just updating the software for your smart home and paylocking features like "Uh yeah, you need to pay 12.99$ a month to have your cctv cameras work." And because all the framework that runs the systems is being hosted in proprietary servers, you can't do shit. And you can't host your own servers either. Does this sound familiar because it should?
To be fair, many of those problems are things you can mitigate by picking the right vendor and staying away from anything that needs to phone home or use the internet
What's stopping the company from just updating the software
The fact that I buy zwave stuff designed never to connects to the internet
This. I have been slowly building my smart home for the last 4-5 years, and I've yet to have a dead piece of equipment outside of a failed plug-in outlet. Since i do run everything through home assistant, there isn't really any worry on my end up about longer term support, and if something does break in 10 years then whatever, I got 10 years of automation and a fun hobby and I'll just replace it with the switches and shit that I took out to begin with. But because my house is now built around zigbee and home assistant, the only thing I actually have to worry about is HASS going away.
I mean, sure, I'll probably upgrade to other things over time anyway, but that is the nature of technology. I mean, I'm sure these articles have been written but this thread is the equivalent of "laptops - computers are already fine, isn't it just going to be a headache to carry one with you?" Ditto for modern mobile phones.
It has its pros and cons. It's amazing if everything works, but a nightmare if I would have to start fixing and troubleshooting when I get back home from a long day at work.
I do appreciate people who have managed to set this up and working.
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