Believe what you want, but every doctor visit I’ve had in a rural area in the last year (severe car accident, so lots of visits) NO ONE has a mask on except for me.
Sure, but the play-by-play interactions are cringe af and absolutely did not go that way.
If the post simply said “I went to the hospital today and was the only person wearing a mask.” I’d be 10x more inclined to believe it versus this fanfiction-sounding recount of events.
I hope she’s wearing an N95? Otherwise the plastic disposable ones do really only work for preventing getting spittle on others, but does fuck all for your own health.
I got covid in December and had to go to the store to get some dayquil. They won’t deliver that stuff. I was wearing a mask, actively trying to avoid people, was super careful to disinfect my hands before going in and touch as little as possible. I went to the self checkout and the lady up front tried to spark up a conversation with me.
“Feeling under the weather huh?”
I just nodded and made it clear I wasn’t talking. I just couldn’t understand the logic of trying to interact with an obviously sick person when they’re going out of their way to not interact. People’s brains are broken.
Noone wants to work 24h shifts in an ffp2 if you don’t really have to and also every colleague had like every possible infection during autumn already.
Yup. I’d rather get COVID than wear a mask all day every day. I will wear a mask if I know I’m sick, of hospitals are getting overwhelmed, or if I know I’ll be around vulnerable people, but that’s it. I took every precaution from 2020 on, and got sick anyway. It’s going to happen, so I’d prefer to at least be comfortable than just delay the inevitable.
I got COVID two months ago and it sucked, and I’d rather repeat that than live my life with a mask.
What a weird way to spell “risking my own death and the death of others is totally acceptable to me because I have absolutely no regard for human life, look at how superior and enlightened I am. NO MUZZLE REEEEEEEEE”
Where did I say I was anti-mask? I said I’m only wearing a mask if I’m likely contagious or will be in close proximity to at-risk individuals.
I have a stack of N95 masks at home that I wear as needed. But if I’m healthy and around other healthy people, I see no point. If I see someone with a mask on, I’ll keep my distance for their comfort, or put on a mask if that’s not feasible. But I’m not wearing a mask all day every day out of fear, that’s just dumb.
Oh hun. With the far-right, anti-mask, anti-vax, Trump-loving conspiracy theorist bible-thumping MAGA racist flat-earther transphobic attitude you’ve displayed, you’re fooling no one here. I shouldn’t have to explain this to you but without at least an N95 on in public you’re just being selfish- it’s not about you, you know. It’s not about “fear” either, it’s about taking pride in being a lefty, being liberal, and understanding that sacrifices need to be made for the agenda here. Please reflect on your MAGA virtue signaling BS, science is to be trusted not tested. We both know you don’t have the education to doubt cold hard facts. It makes me sick to know dummy flat earthers like you had already overdosed on horse medicine, you aren’t capable to think straight anymore. Get help.
it’s about taking pride in being a lefty, being liberal, and understanding that sacrifices need to be made for the agenda here… science is to be trusted not tested
Lol, nice. You’ve nailed “the problem” you posted accused me of being like 4 times.
I’m not a conservative or a progressive, I just like good science and apply it in a way that doesn’t unnecessarily get in the way of regular life. I’ll wear a mask when it has a big impact, and I won’t if it’s just virtue signaling. I’ll get vaccinated because that’s a good idea. I’ll reduce consumption, not increase consumption to “own the libs” or “show how green I am.” And so on.
I’ll finish with an Bible-based, anti-Vietnam War song to really confuse both sides:
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
…
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
Quoting the Bible eh? You’re definitely not a MAGA insurrectionist… smh. Isn’t that the book that says the earth is flat, slavery is the way, and science is some liberal satanic end times deception?? Do you even know how old the Bible is??? Let me guess, you tested the claims of the Bible instead of blindly trusting them. You can’t just pick and choose, whether it’s Bible verses or mask best practices. Did Jesus play both sides like you do? Everyone here knows how dumb the “enlightened centrist” angle is. Vote Democrat or you’re a fascist. And wear a damn mask to the voting booth. It’s that simple. Stop with the dog whistles and the “doing your own research” pal. You’re wrong in every way you stick your head out, follow the damn crowd like a true leftist or take the right-wing rhetoric elsewhere.
I only wear a mask when I go out. That isn’t “living my life with a mask”. I also get quality, well-made masks that are comfortable. They also keep your face warm when it’s cold, and you aren’t going to get tagged by facial-recognition software.
This topic is about healthcare workers. My point is that I don’t expect healthcare workers to wear one every day during their full shift. I only expect them to wear a mask when around at-risk individuals (i.e. CDC guidelines for healthcare workers), or consistent with hospital/clinic guidelines, or ideally when asked to by a patient. If someone is wearing a mask, I expect them to distance themselves as much as is reasonable so that person feels comfortable (that’s just common decency imo).
That’s what I’m responding to. Feel free to wear a mask whenever you want, that’s fine. Don’t expect others to do so unreasonably.
The mask doesn’t prevent the spread, it just slows it. Look at the data from the various states about the effectiveness of lockdowns and mask mandates, they had a number of total cases per capita, they just had a flatter curve.
Pushing for masks made a ton of sense in the first couple years of the pandemic when hospitals were getting overrun, but wearing a mask today doesn’t really prevent anything. COVID is already endemic, so the best you’re going to do is increase the time between infections a bit.
When I got COVID last, I was on vacation and had to get home, so I tested myself as soon as I was able, self-quarantined as best I could, wore an N95 mask when I couldn’t, and put off unnecessary trips to the store. Once I had recovered, I went back to not wearing a mask. That’s how we should treat it. I do the same for colds, the flu, etc. I’m not wearing a mask unless I’m either sick or likely to be directly in contact with those who are at risk.
Catching water particles, which carries the virus.
N95 masks do a really good job (something like 80% reduction in transmission), but most people wear those typical surgical masks (or worse, a single-layer cloth mask with almost no protection) that merely reduces transmission by something like half. If you’re wearing a mask the whole day, it’ll get saturated and become far less effective. So, 50% fewer particles best case (average for a full day is likely way worse) doesn’t sound like a good tradeoff to me.
That said, if I’m going to an area with at-risk people, I’ll use the best mask available while I’m there. But for all-day usage, no, it’s not going to be that effective on net.
It doesn’t prevent transmission, it reduces transmission. You’ll have similar total numbers of infected people, it just flattens the curve so people get sick slower.
I totally agree that wearing masks has its place, but it’s not going to meaningfully reduce the spread, it’s already endemic so you’re likely going to get it regardless.
That’s just… not happening. So if there’s a big wave of COVID, you could delay getting it toward the end of the wave, but you’ll probably get it. If you’re vaxxed and boosted (and I am), symptoms will probably be lessened, but you’ll probably still get it. Just like the common cold or the flu, you’ll probably get it every year or two regardless of what you do (outside of total quarantine).
The good news is that it seems to be getting more mild, or at least that’s my anecdotal experience. I first got COVID just before vaccines were available for my age bracket (I think spring of 2021), and I had a crazy fever, hacking cough, and body soreness and was essentially confined to my bed for two days, and had really nasty phlegm for weeks afterward. The second time was fall 2023 (got sick the last day of a cruise), and I felt dizzy (probably from the boat), mild to moderate fever, headache, runny nose, and low energy, but otherwise generally able to get around, and symptoms were largely gone within a week. Part of that is that I had the vaccine and previous natural immunity, but it was a completely different strain with different symptoms. I’ve heard similar things from co-workers and friends in my area (each had the 2020/2021 strain and then whatever went around last year).
It makes sense to take precautions when sick, around those who are sick, and when cases spike, but that’s mostly to slow the spread to help out hospitals, but that also likely means it sticks around longer (i.e. instead of running out of steam in 2 months, it’ll run for 6 months). So wearing masks everyday makes little sense unless you work in a cancer ward or something.
Really seems like a 50-80% is meaningful, but for whatever reason you’re tying yourself in knots trying to justify not liking wearing a mask.
It’s like saying there’s no point in stopping smoking when you’ve been diagnosed with lung cancer because there’s ONLY a 30-40% risk reduction of dying. Or maybe refusing to wash your hands because every cold or flu you’ve gotten has been ‘not that bad’. Except in this case, the risk reduction is for everyone around you instead of just yourself.
Like, whatever you want to do bud, but you’re not convincing anyone that basic hygiene while you’re sick isn’t beneficial.
Sure, 50-80% would be great if that’s the average case. But it’s not, that’s the best case, and apples if the mask:
is fresh
fits properly
is high quality
But if you’re wearing a mask all day, it’s not going to be fresh, will likely not fit properly the whole time, and probably not be very high quality. Most of the masks I saw at the height of COVID were crappy single-layer cloth masks with effectiveness in the single digits.
So your average mask is probably 5-25% effective on net if worn all day.
That’s why I say we shouldn’t be wearing masks all day, we should only wear them when it’s important. That way, people are more likely to use a fresh mask and ensure it fits properly. I can put up with wearing a high quality mask for a few hours or days, but if you ask me to do that every single day, I’m going to get lazy, and lazy reduces effectiveness.
At the height of COVID, medical experts wanted to slow the spread to preserve hospital capacity, so even single digit effectiveness was fine. But these days, there’s not much point to such low numbers of effectiveness, so mask-wearing shouldn’t be an everyday thing, but instead something you do when it’s especially important. Make it a normal thing, just not a routine.
Sure, washing your hands reduces risk of infection by 16-20%, but that’s best case, and applies only when:
You wash for at least 30 seconds
You wash with the right kind of soap
You do it after you use the bathroom and not before
So really it’s probably 5-10% effective on average. That’s why i say we shouldn’t wash our hands all the time, only when you’ve actually touched shit."
Masks prevent one on one transmission. Washing your hands prevents many to many transmission. Surfaces are touched by more people than you’ll directly interact with in a day. So even if it has a lower per-contact effectiveness, you have orders of magnitude more contact with contaminated surfaces than infected people.
The average mask wearer marginally reduces their transmission risk, especially if you consider that most people aren’t infected. The average hand washer dramatically reduces their transmission risk because they’re washing off other germs they’ve picked up (i.e. you don’t need to be sick to spread disease through touch).
Do you understand how respiratory infections spread? Unless you’re sneezing or coughing, it only really affects people in you immediate vicinity. Hence the one on one description.
Contact spread (e.g. what washing hands prevents) impacts anyone who touches the same surface. That’s a much bigger pool of people than would be in my immediate vicinity.
Masks prevent one on one transmission. Washing your hands prevents many to many transmission. Surfaces are touched by more people than you’ll directly interact with in a day
Almost like more than one person breathes the air in a room, just like ‘surfaces are touched by more people than you’ll directly interact with in a day’. If you’re on an airplane or working as a doctor seeing sick people, it makes sense to wear a mask even if you aren’t displaying symptoms, because masks reduce the transmission of airborne viruses, both for you and for the people around you. For the same reason washing your hands is efficacious when touching lots of public surfaces, wearing a mask is efficacious when breathing the same air as lots of potentially sick and at-risk individuals, especially if you are doing so frequently.
I’m not concerned with what your personal practices are with your mask-wearing, but you’ve been downplaying the efficacy of masks this entire thread and then backsliding when you meet resistance. You’re making up rational based on “wearing a mask is inconvenient”, vibes-based logic. You don’t think masks are worth the inconvenience for healthcare workers, and I’m saying they objectively and meaningfully reduce the spread, and whatever perceived inconvenience you feel is worth it if it prevents transmission in high traffic and high-risk environments.
Sure, but air is also continuously recycled in a building. The CDC recommends 5 air replacements per hour, and most commercial buildings are above that.
working as a doctor seeing sick people
Agreed. But that’s not what I’m talking about. I explicitly said I would wear a mask if I’m sick, in close proximity to someone who is known to be sick, or in close proximity to someone who is known to be at significant risk of becoming sick.
All of that is completely within CDC recommendations.
Most people are not around sick or at risk people all day, so wearing a mask is pretty silly for them. The additional protection against someone who might be sick in public is minimal (you probably won’t get COVID from a chance encounter with an asymptomatic carrier), especially if you’ve already been wearing it all day.
Handwashing helps prevent accidental contact, so it’s highly recommended regardless. You should be washing your hands consistently throughout the day even if you don’t work with sick or at risk people.
you’ve been downplaying the efficacy of masks this entire thread
Alternative perspective: you’ve been consistently misinterpreting what I’ve said.
I cited efficacy numbers, which are based on close proximity to a symptomatic individual. That’s not the situation we’re discussing, we’re talking about all day use of masks even when not in the presence of a symptomatic carrier. You’re getting at best 50% reduced risk of infection, probably much lower. If you’re if you’re in a commercial building with typical ventilation, asymptomatic carriers will have their breath sucked into the ventilation fairly quickly (typical office is probably ~5 cycles per hour, a hospital is probably more frequent). The risk for infection from proximity to someone who is merely a carrier is already quite low, and adding a mask doesn’t meaningfully increase your protection.
That’s why I’m opposed to all-day wearing of masks for most people. It’s not going to meaningfully reduce your risk of infection. If you’re around known sick or at-risk people, absolutely wear a mask. If you’re not (i.e. you’re part of the majority), wearing a mask is essentially pointless.
You don’t think masks are worth the inconvenience for healthcare workers
I do, just not for every role of healthcare worker. Healthcare workers should wear one when in the presence of someone who is sick or at risk. If they’re working with sick people, wear a mask. If they’re doing well checks, routine procedures, etc, I don’t see a point.
In other words, dress appropriately for the work you’re doing. The CDC has reasonable recommendations here, and I follow them myself, and sometimes go beyond. I don’t follow the “always wear a mask” mantra though; that’s not what the CDC recommends, and that’s not what any healthcare professional I’ve ever talked to recommends.
I feel like I’ve been very consistent here. Wear a mask if you’re around sick or at risk people, don’t bother if you’re not (unless there’s a local spike in cases or something that changes local guidance, but that should go without saying).
Either you’ve misread the context of the post or you’ve intentionally jumped into a conversation about healthcare workers wearing protective gear and steered it towards a general ‘i find masks uncomfortable so why bother’ discussion. The reason you’ve been so aggressively downvoted is because the post is speaking specifically about preventing exposure to at-risk individuals in a healthcare context, and yet you’ve decided this is actually about you not wanting to wear a mask for your own benefit.
I feel like I’ve been very consistent here.
You responded to a post specifically about masking in a healthcare context, stating that you don’t see a point in wearing a mask because you end up getting infected anyway
You then said “The mask doesn’t prevent the spread, it just slows it.” in response to someone pointing out that it’s not for you but for others
You had a whole-ass pedantic argument about “prevention” and “reduction”, even after acknowledging that masks have significant efficacy (50-80% under correct usage), ignoring that risk reduction is what we’re talking about when discussing prevention. (preventative care is never about reducing risk of illness to zero)
You then shifted goalposts, taking ‘meaningful spread reduction’ to instead mean ‘moving toward complete eradication/containment’, implying that if masks cannot eradicate infection then they shouldn’t be used (??) (this makes my head fucking spin, are you really suggesting that preventative measures are only worthwhile if they can eradicate an illness completely? e.g. since not smoking doesn’t eradicate my risk of lung cancer, why bother cutting it out at all??)
When challenged (i argued 50-80% was meaningful), you walked back your previously cited figures, since ‘people don’t wear them effectively so really it’s not even 50%, it’s less than that so really it’s not effective’
The only thing you’ve done consistently is downplay the role masks play in reducing viral transmission, while constantly complaining how inconvenient they are.
I don’t follow the “always wear a mask” mantra though; that’s not what the CDC recommends, and that’s not what any healthcare professional I’ve ever talked to recommends.
Good thing nobody is advocating that here, you dense motherfucker.
Noone wants to work 24h shifts in an ffp2 if you don’t really have to and also every colleague had like every possible infection during autumn already.
That comment got upvotes. I agreed with it, and gave more context. Here’s my comment in full:
Yup. I’d rather get COVID than wear a mask all day every day. I will wear a mask if I know I’m sick, of hospitals are getting overwhelmed, or if I know I’ll be around vulnerable people, but that’s it. I took every precaution from 2020 on, and got sick anyway. It’s going to happen, so I’d prefer to at least be comfortable than just delay the inevitable.
I got COVID two months ago and it sucked, and I’d rather repeat that than live my life with a mask.
I’m commiserating with healthcare professionals. They should only be expected to wear masks if they’re directly working with sick or at risk people. There are a ton of healthcare jobs where that’s absolutely not the case.
The only criticism I have for the nurse/doctor in that OP is that they didn’t practice social distancing with the person wearing a mask. I don’t think they should be expected to wear a mask for their whole shift, only in the moments where they’re interacting with sick or at-risk people.
prevention vs reduction
I only brought that up in context. If you look, it wasn’t until multiple back and forth comments that I bothered.
A healthcare professional isn’t going to prevent all transmission of disease in a hospital or clinic, even if they mask up all day every day. So I’m absolutely okay with them being comfortable most of the time so they don’t burn out on their job.
I’ll highlight the part of your comment that was the issue:
Yup. I’d rather get COVID than wear a mask all day every day. I will wear a mask if I know I’m sick, of hospitals are getting overwhelmed, or if I know I’ll be around vulnerable people, but that’s it. I took every precaution from 2020 on, and got sick anyway. It’s going to happen, so I’d prefer to at least be comfortable than just delay the inevitable.
I got COVID two months ago and it sucked, and I’d rather repeat that than live my life with a mask.
The comment you responded to didn’t make the unsympathetic choice yours did; that wearing a mask was for your protection, as opposed to the protection of the patients. That is why yours received consternation and the other less-so.
It’s absolutely sympathetic, I’m being sympathetic toward the healthcare worker. It would really suck to have to wear a mask all day every day, so I completely understanding not doing that when the stakes are low.
The healthcare worker is likely to get sick regardless, though wearing a mask might delay things a bit. Why make the healthcare worker wear a mask when the risk is incredibly low? That’s just going to lead to burnout.
I used myself as an example because I obviously cannot speak for other healthcare workers, but the whole intent was to sympathize with them.
If you want a driving analogy, here you go. It’s like fast starts and stops between lights vs slower starts and stops, and everyone is going to the same place. Either way you’ll get to your destination in a similar amount of time, but the first can cause traffic bunching if enough people do it. The first is like not wearing a mask (people get sick all at once), and the second is like wearing a mask (smooth out the curve).
This analogy sucks in all kinds of ways, but there you go.
Flattening the curve was super important in the early stages of COVID because it reduced bunching at hospitals and gave researchers time to work on a vaccine. Now that it’s endemic, bunching is much less of a problem and symptoms are generally more mild anyway. If you’re sick or around those who are (or spend a lot of time with at-risk populations), wear a mask. If not, it’s basically a waste of time.
Thank you for reminding us all of the dangers of long COVID. It is truly disheartening to see the devastating effect prolonged inflammation has had to your higher reasoning capabilities.
My SIL actually got a pretty serious case of long COVID, so I’m extra careful around her. I’ll avoid visits if I’ve likely been exposed recently, and only go when I’m pretty sure I’m clean.
I’m happy to wear a mask upon request, but there’s no way I’m wearing a mask all day every day out of fear.
Exactly! If you’ve been exposed to the virus, it makes a ton of sense.
When I last got COVID, I:
self-quarantined as much as possible, keeping as much distance as I could
wore a surgical mask (best mask I had) until I was able to get an N95 mask (about a day)
wore the N95 mask whenever I was anywhere near anyone until I was able to effectively quarantine
But that’s not an everyday thing. Once I had confirmed I was negative, I stopped wearing the mask in public. There’s no need, I’m healthy and I’m around other healthy people. I’m not going to wear a mask out of fear of what might be out there, I’ll wear it when I’m near people who are at-risk or when asked. I’m not going to wear it 24/7 though.
They’re asking healthcare workers to wear it for the full shift, every shift. That’s fine for short time periods (say, during a COVID spike), but I don’t think that’s reasonable long term, especially since many healthcare workers work 12h shifts.
My expectation is they wear one when around at-risk individuals, such as in a cancer ward, ER, etc. If it’s just in the waiting room for a checkup or something, it’s up to them, though they should try to distance themselves from people who choose to wear masks.
Yes…? Isn’t that what healthcare workers did before COVID? Why would that be controversial?
If my doctor or nurse isn’t wearing a mask I get the same gut reaction as if they’re smoking a cigarette. They are, of course, free to do that on their own time, but when they’re at work I expect them to be professional and health-conscious. That includes wearing a mask.
My care providers didn’t and don’t wear a mask every time I visit, though they do maintain a reasonable distance. They do around sick people though.
The post makes it sound like healthcare providers are expected to always wear a mask, which is ridiculous. They should wear a mask about as often as they did pre-2020, more if there’s a COVID surge or something.
I love how something like this can reach the front page but if you take it just a little shuffle further and say that maybe, just maybe, it’s, ike, possible that some medical professionals are not infallible resources of knowledge and action, you’ll never hear the end about how much of a killer you are
The trouble is that it’s a slippery slope between “some are not infallible” and “all doctors can’t be trusted”…
Well, it’s not. It’s a dry, gentle gradient normal people can easily stand on, but then someone rolls out the slip n’ slide and we’ve been living with that for 4 years!
My mother was a registered nurse and has her head on fairly straight, but she worked with plenty of nutso people.
Being a part of the medical field does not automatically make you an expert in all things health related. In fact, it seems to give some of them a false sense of superiority.
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