How do you get that, Like you took the longer and harder to understand path here, there is a path where he would prefer Biden for reasons of IDK deplomacy, now I do not understand why, as Biden has been just as bad as trump on that front, but there are some potential reasons.
Look if Justin Trudou said he wanted Biden to win, would you say he was pushing for trump?
Well one’s a democratically elected and broadly reasonable ally, and the other’s a dictator-for-life who’s practically had The Idiot kiss his feet on television. I will not spend one instant humoring any dingus who goes ‘hurr hurr which is which.’
If you can’t figure out whether anyone can trust Vladimir god damn Putin, you have my sincere pity.
I am not saying if you can trust him, he has motives, I am saying it is redicuolously fool hearty to assume that because he said something that instantly means he wants the oposit. Do I think he has an agenda yes, do I think that his agenda and the agenda of the United States are aligned no, but that does not mean he is going to go “You know what I will wake up to day and play reverse phycology because everyone in America is a moron” The thing we do here is he said X, what would be the reasons for his statement of X. It is unlikely his lie would be that he wants Biden when he wants trump, I could see the lie being he does not care but he thinks by saying he wants Biden it will cause an ease in relations but that is unlikely. What I think is more likely is that, and I know I will be called a “Russian Bot” or a “Republican” for this dispite the fact I am nither, is that while Domesticly the better choice we have is Biden, it is in Russia’s better intersest that Biden is elected aswell, the USA is more stable under biden, and I could easily see him lieing about the mental stability of Biden, as this is a comon refrain from people in washington, but we never see it when he is talking to the public nor is it reflected in the Special Investigators Report. So taking the person who is mentaly deteriorating, and is less likely to spill everything and say the first thing that comes to their mind, therefor pulling the nation back and forth at their every wim, would be a perk for russia, who is just now starting to emerge again as a high regional power maybe entering into great power, and it would be far more dangerous for them to have a loose cannon of a USA.
They are both carbon-based life forms. Which means that at a psychological level they’re probably identical. And there’s probably no difference whatsoever between the respective nations cultures, economic or political conditions, or their respective geopolitical interests.
If they’re living breathing creatures, and they both rely on carbon to form complex molecules that make up their bodies, it naturally follows that their countries have identical geopolitical alliances.
This is overly reductive. My argument is that, while their geoplilitical intrests are difrent, the idea of jumping to Putin said he likes Biden so he must like Trump, over Putin said he likes Biden, so what about the situation would make him prefer Biden, or at least have the Biden administration think he likes them more.
This feels like we are jumping the layers of political insight and reasoning to a predetermined outcome that we prefer more. My point is that if another difrent foring leader where to speak on this, we would be giving them the benifit of the doubt and depending on our thoughts on the leader of the nation or the nation deciding if its just an endorsement or what the true motivations are, however because the Russian Federation is one of the boogiemen, we just assume everything said is a lie, I feel like this is disingenuous, and I feel it steps some hard, but interesting questions. We do not have to think he is being completly honest with us, because he likely is not, however thinking he is saying the exact oposit of what he means is utterly laughable at its face.
This makes no sense, All of the right is going to vote for trump NO MATTER WHAT anyone says, the only group that is avaliable to be swayed is the Liberals, and at this point, as seen by this post, they already have their mind made up that Putin wants the other guy to win, so no matter what he says it is some 4d chess to get trump elected. The simplest answer, is that for what ever reason, weather it be stability, or biden having dementia or what ever, he would rather a biden presidency.
Look if Justin Trudou said he wanted Biden to win, would you say he was pushing for trump?
I think that question requires about 8 years of ignored context to be valid?
If Trudeau has spent billions of dollars and half a million Canadian lives attempting to invade a smaller country, and Democrats were the only thing standing in his way… Yeah, I would say he’s pushing for trump.
That’s not even mentioning the election interference… Or the fact that Trump is basically screaming that he’d destroy NATO if given the chance. You know, Russia’s proclaimed casus belli of the war.
Russia’s Casus Belli is 2 fold, and I cannot speak to what one is the stronger motivator, though I can speculate, I will refrain from doing so here, One is a military aliance with the Express Purpos of destroying the USSR Russia at any cost, that has both denied the USSR & Russia Entry (I add this so no one can deny my previous point) on many occasions and denied its repeated promise not to expand past Germany, to be frank NATO has vastly outlived its usefulness and purpous, and is going to be on its way our with our without trump, The United States Intrests no longer lie with Europe as heavily. The second reason for the war, and the stated one was the ongoing genocide of the Russian Speaking population in the dunbas region (now a part of Russia), and the flagrent violation of the Minsk agreements, that Ukraine had been carrying out sense 2014.
Democrats standing in Russias way? Russia has effectivly won the war, the onlything happening now is the US is telling their puppet of Ukraine to not sign the peace treaty, or any cese fire agreements, while draining the wests arsonals, Privitizing Ukraine at breakneck pase, and causing senseless loss of life in Ukraine. From the first week the Russian Federation offered a Peace Treaty, and about twice a month after that either a peace treaty or cese fire,to end the killing, the Dems are not “standing in the way” they are activly prolonging the war sure but the war is over in all but treaty.
Also last I remember, the aleged 2020 and 2016 election interfearence, came up as inconclusive, I understand my memory may be faulty, and it was a heavily pushed narritive, but at the end of the day not only is saying that unproductive because it does not let us look at ourselves in the mirror and see how we caused Trump to hapen (well as much as we could with him loosing the popular vote) but agian, if my memory serves, it being incorrect.
Look what I am trying to say is that this fraiming and spinn is disingenuous, I understand, and could belive that it is in Russia’s best intrest for Trump to be elected president, however I feel as though using this as evidence is more of a hinderance to that argument than a bost. The argument you laied out, in absence of his statement is more compelling than with his statment. I understand this is forign politics and not everything is always taken at face value, but that being said, this argument of “Putin said X so he means Y” is not as effective as you think it is.
One is a military aliance with the Express Purpos of destroying the USSR Russia at any cost, that has both denied the USSR & Russia Entry
How does a defensive pact = the express purpose of destroying the USSR/Russia?
If it indeed was made expressly to destroy the USSR, why would the USSR attempt to join it? You are either misrepresenting the inherent purpose of NATO, or you are claiming the USSR wanted to invade the USSR in the 50s.
The same cognitive dissonance is apparent in your claim about Russia. If NATO was built to destroy the USSR and Russia “at any cost”, why did NATO create the Nato-Russia Council, why did the Russians join it? Why were we doing joint military exercises in the early 00s? None of these activities are ones you would participate in with your mortal enemy…
NATO has vastly outlived its usefulness and purpous, and is going to be on its way our with our without trump, The United States Intrests no longer lie with Europe as heavily.
I feel this is more wishfull thinking than anything a kin to a factual statement.
The second reason for the war, and the stated one was the ongoing genocide of the Russian Speaking population in the dunbas region (now a part of Russia), and the flagrent violation of the Minsk agreements, that Ukraine had been carrying out sense 2014.
You mean the one that has never been substantiated?
“Following the invasion, Ukraine brought a case before the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to challenge Russia’s accusation. During the proceedings of Ukraine v. Russian Federation, the ICJ said it had found no evidence of genocide. The International Association of Genocide Scholars also rejected Russia’s accusation.[2] Further reports by 30 legal and genocide scholars warned that Russia’s accusations are part of the “accusation in a mirror” technique, ultimately revealing the Russian incitement to commit genocide against Ukrainians.[3]”
Russia has effectivly won the war, the onlything happening now is the US is telling their puppet of Ukraine to not sign the peace treaty, or any cese fire agreements, while draining the wests arsonals, Privitizing Ukraine at breakneck pase, and causing senseless loss of life in Ukraine.
They’ve lost nearly half a million people and generations of weapon stockpiles, and have wrecked any kind of economic future outside a war time economy. In the meanwhile NATO has expanded even further, and is closer to Moscow than ever before. Can they really call that a win?
I kind of think it’s hilarious that you would blame the West for the deaths of Ukrainians, but not Russia? Are you claiming Ukrainians lack the agency to decide wether they want to defend their country? Or are you claiming the Russians lack the ability to keep their hands to themselves?
From the first week the Russian Federation offered a Peace Treaty, and about twice a month after that either a peace treaty or cese fire,to end the killing
“Deputy Kremlin Chief of Staff Dmitry Kozak said in 2022 that he had negotiated an agreement with Ukraine within a few days of the invasion.[37] This settlement would have ended hostilities in exchange for guarantees that Ukraine would not join NATO. The agreement was however blocked by Putin, who “expanded his objectives to include annexing swathes of Ukrainian territory””
Also last I remember, the aleged 2020 and 2016 election interfearence, came up as inconclusive
No, there was plenty of evidence that Russia made efforts to interfere in the election in the fovour of the trump administration. The inconclusive part was how involved the trump campaign was.
Look what I am trying to say is that this fraiming and spinn is disingenuous
Based on your spin and framing of other current events, I think this claim is disingenuous and hypocritical.
understand, and could belive that it is in Russia’s best intrest for Trump to be elected president, however I feel as though using this as evidence is more of a hinderance to that argument than a bost.
I didn’t appeal to it as evidence, I appealed to the surrounding context which highly suggest Vladimir Putin is lying through his teeth.
this argument of “Putin said X so he means Y” is not as effective as you think it is.
Can you quote where I made that claim?
What I’m trying to say is that global politics is a complex landscape, and the false dichotomy of NATO bad = Russia good is foolish. I’ve heard the myopic arguments, that anyone fighting the hegemony is morally valid. That Russian attempts of expansion isn’t imperialism or colonialism, despite Russia being a western capitalist nation run by a powerful oligarchy growing rich by stealing from “state owned” resources… Nope they’re just defending themselves by attacking their neighbor.
Hold your fetishes tight to yourself, i’m not interested. Also “one of them went to prison”, even if true, does not correspond at all to the scale of the supposed “russiagate”. Your party is in power for over 3 years, you could think they would found something more concrete if it was true.
Reverse psychology? Is he trying to make libs think that Biden has been compromised by Russia, therefore Trump wins, which is actually what Putin wants?
What the debt biden has done nothing to help aleviate? I think the most he has done is contenue to delay the payments, but there has been no forigivenss to
That will not do anything they are all controled by capital, There will be some new reason some new group of senators or Members of the House who will block it, for some reason, it happens every time. The one real difrence between the 2 parties is reteoric, and the speed of internal decay, and even the second one is becoming less of a distiguishing factor.
Are you sure you’re thinking hard enough? Maybe we can help crowdsource ideas. Here’s one: another real difference is that Texas and other states are using unwilling women and children as incubators now.
and under whos administration did that become a possibility? that is right Bidens, and we had Obama’s term to get a law that also secured a legislative right to abortion, but last I checked we never did because it was more advantagioius to use it as a gun to the head of minorities to vote for them than to help secure the rights of the vary same minorities. I will eat my words if they get a trifecta and then they pass a law giving abortion as a legislative right.
Also may I point out THE first state to give abortion a state constitutional status after Roe was … Kansas, last I checked ever sense the Red Scare it has been solidly conservitve, infact it got this granted BEFORE Roe fell. Might I also add that during the Biden Administration we have also lost most forms of separation of church and state in funding, IE if you give funding to a private source that is not a curch that means you MUST also offer it to the church. More deportations, more kids in cages, essentialy no responce to Texas flagrantly daring the US to touch them putting death traps in the rio grand, Supporting a genocide, what can generously be described as slaps on the wrist for an inserection that was called “the biggest threat to the [so called] democracy”
Agian, the usual eb and flow is Republicans speed up how bad everything is going, dems get in, they bend over with their lack of a back bone but they slow it down, but do not dare to make anything better at all, and it still gets worse, repeat.
Wow, you’re seriously trying to blame a Dem administration for a Repub-appointed SCOTUS majority. I haven’t seen that one attempted in a while. What’s the reason for being intentionally dishonest there?
Well lets see, Obama let McConal play fast and loose with senate rules, when there was ligitimate argument that his stunt would have allowed Obama to just apoint garland unilateraly. Second, I am not just pointing out the timeing, and 3rd my disgrutlement is that the dems had plenty of time to pass a law that said “The right to an abortion shall not be infringed” but they did not because it was never politicaly convient, it was always better to hold the gun to the minoirties head and say vote for us or you might lose this.
Not only that, but the day it was overturned the Democrats had the House the Senate and the Presidency, they could have gone “OK Scotus, not a constitutional right, then we will make it a legislative one” but instead they decided to use this as a bargoning chip for the election that year, one that failied miserably. so no I give the dems 0 credit on abortion.
I don’t think that anywhere near as many people that thought Trump was “compromised” would believe Biden has been. If anything Biden constantly demanding more and more money and arms stockpiles from the US to go to Ukraine is kind of a win for Russia. As it means less money and arms are being kept by the US. It weakens us in money and supplies. The constant cheerleading about standing with Ukraine until the end and all territories are returned, kind of makes it hard to save face and cut off the supply line. Trump being much more prone to impulses and thrives on attention is much more likely to change directions even if people scream at him about it. Just as long as he can be the centre of attention and not really care about the situation.
That being said, Putin is definitely fucking with everyone. It helps create chaos for both parties to constantly be too focused on accusing each other of being “compromised.” And the best part is that he doesn’t even have to actually do anything other than exist for this to happen.
or and here me out here, he is not lieing? just maybe, like you are doing lots of mental gymnastics to get to the point of he is lieing for reverse phycology and doing like a tripple bluff, when accams razer would sugest it is just he means what he says.
Note in no way am I pro Trump … nor do I want trump to win.
Agian I ask of Trudeau made the same claim, or the Prime Minister of New Zeeland, would you be making the same argument
Wouldn’t that depend on their particular geopolitical interests, which could be entirely different from those of Russia?
I feel like these questions are so absurd sometimes not because an answer is being sought but because it succeeds at the goal of degrading the quality of conversation.
I am not trying to degrade the conversation, but I know how they usualy go. What I am saying is I feel that there is a fundimental lack of understanding of the geoplolitical interists of russia, and not only that, it would be the simpliler solution to assume that Putin is speaking honestly when he says he would prefer to work with Biden, even if that reasoning is as simple as he thinks biden has a better chance of winning and saying this now will make deplomacy easier in the future. I think it is a bit bold to just jump to the conclusion that because Putin has said X he really means Y, and it feels much more like the world view you subscribe to requries putin and the Russian Federation to want Y so no matter what is being said you will make it so it really means he belives Y.
I’m honestly not sure what you’re arguing for. All politicians lie constantly. I’m sure the ones you named also lie frequently. It’s all just mind games to confuse people during a war.
Agian, is this a universal truth or just in the US system or Liberal democratic system, is it not possible (and I am not saying the Russian Federation is this system I am now asking in hypotheticals) where that would not be the case
What do you even mean by universal truth? In math this makes sense, but not here. You cannot say anything meaningful in this context using such a qualifier. The closest you get to universal truth is that people have some property, unfortunately, so that saying certain things makes you popular because it is what people want to hear, regardless of truth value.
With you people, its always going to be some way of making Putin an enemy, regardless of if he said he wanted to be USA’s friend. You people will frame it as something like backstabbing in the future.
Putin is no one’s friend but his own. I could go on but I remember your pro-Ruzzia tirades and it isn’t worth arguing with bad faith arguments, you’ll learn for yourself eventually when, shocking no one, shills like you outlive your usefulness and get disposed of.
On account of being an enemy of the US, not sapping wealth from developing nations like imperial core countries do, and defending their sovereignty against the US (like with Syria), he’s already very much a friend of the Global South.
not sapping wealth from developing nations like imperial core countries do
Oh, like Wagner Group is doing in Sudan, Central African Republic, Burkina Faso, etc.? Good to know they’re not Russian. Or are you gonna tell me it’s fake news by the mainstream media?
The global south may feel relieved now, but they are merely trading western colonialism for eastern neo-colonialism. I hope they realize that before they can regret it, like Kenya is starting to with China.
Meaning he would really hate if biden wins. It’s always the same shit, accusing the “enemy” of exactly what they are doing, and pretending the exact opposite of what they want… Nothing new under the sun.
Neo-Nazi Richard Spencer pulled the same sneering bullshit in 2020.
Anyone who parrots this sincerely can be blocked without hesitation or regret. No, the guy at war with Ukraine because he’s mad at NATO does not actually want the guy funding Ukraine instead of the guy undermining NATO.
I can’t even comprehend the people somehow awed by this trivial child-move. It is the most obvious stupid lie he could tell, and it doesn’t even prevent him from later saying the exact opposite, because the people who buy it don’t really care about words.
Thing is, Trump isn’t “undermining NATO”, he’s trying to escalate the war by calling upon member states to increase military expenditure or he says he’ll let Russia have at them - which is a lie of course, someone put in power through the US political system genuinely wanting to undermine their imperialist institutions would just be replaced, like JFK was for wanting to abolish the CIA.
It makes sense to prefer the more stable and predictable party over the one that’s less anti-Russia one day, then spouts some bs about Russian space nukes the next, specially when the war has more or less been working out for Russia lately under that stable party.
Which is ironic cuz they literally agree with Putin. Isn’t Biden’s slightly higher stability over Trump the reason alot of them are voting for him too?
They could achieve complete political cogency by acknowledging the validity of leftist criticism, but they choose to instead wrap themselves up in more rationalizations.
Wartime is the best time to pull out the block. Can’t remember how many people on mastodon I yeeted for cheering on the genocide of Palestine. All I can say is that my experience there has been a lot better ever since I did. Genocidal fascists are consistently the worst posters.
Imagine having coherent politics and recognizing that Putin knows that Biden is more stable than Trump and would be less likely to escalate the war in Ukraine…
…Instead of having to be like “is he playing mindgames? Is this him trolling us? He says he wants blue team to win in 2024, but we are blue team and we hate him!”
Trump seems like he is more likely to dismiss the war or help the Russian side by weakening NATO. Why would Biden be preferable to Russia if he is going to continue trying to supply Ukraine?
This seems to run contrary to everything I’ve read about Trump’s position. The first half of what you said is at least somewhat accurate. But the second half is contradicted by numerous reports from Trump that his approach would have been to “take a deal” and get out, implicitly with substantial land concessions from Ukraine. And then there’s the fact that both of them have profess to having positive relationships with one another and admiring one another.
Trump did a random missile strike on an Iranian general
It wasn’t random. It was to appeal the warhawks in republican party. If you remember how it went, they were ramping up rhetorics and manufacturing consent for war with Iran, but that stopped really abruptly, like cut with knife. I don’t know what was the real reason or their combination, it might be that the manufacturing consent was not working as intended, maybe ithey pushed too fast, maybe Pentagon wasn’t ready, maybe because Iran shot down their most modern drone with old Soviet missile using domestically manufactured radar proving their deffensive capabilities were more significant than what Pentagon assumed. Anyway, the ramping to war stopped so suddenly that even the leading warhawk that is John Bolton was surprised and he even got sacked from WH which prompted him to publish book where he accuse Trump of being less warhawk than himself and many rep senators.
So Soleimani was assassinated to appease the warhawks and because US have to have last word.
He says he wants blue team to win in 2024, but we are blue team and we hate him!
Well we’re off to an awfully bad start because this is about the shallowest bad faith caricature I could possibly imagine. Let’s put it this way:
Putin absolutely has a propaganda strategy aimed toward the west that utilizes a number of tools and messaging strategies
Among the strategies reported on, one has been to escalate existing divisions within the United States, with one example reported on being creating opposing conservative and liberal events and scheduling them at the same location
Purin preferred Trump for his first term
Putin preferring Biden can be politically damaging to Biden in the context of domestic politics
a Trump victory could prove exceptionally destabilizing to domestic politics in the United States
I’m not even 100% saying I’m right, but every step of this is perfectly reasonable, it doesn’t rely on any outlandish assumptions, and communication about this isn’t helped by mocking people with bad faith caricatures and performative incredulity.
Nope. Just means that Republicans are going to switch back to anti Russia suddenly and without a reason except “he said democrats are good”
In reality, putler’s entire strategy for the US has been to create discord and chaos and bank on the fact that we’ll be too paralyzed as a country to properly react to the things Russia does.
What’s unusual about preferring the more stable and predictable party? Republicans are less anti-Russia one day, then say some bs about space nukes the other. At least Biden’s a bit more consistent.
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