@acousticmirror@daviwil I do think #MaxMSP really takes the visual aspect to another level though. being able to develop custom interface components using the tools offered by the programming enviroment itself, not to mention with all the low and high level tools offered by #jitter and gen, and the ability for it to instantly snap together to create a proper front end using presentation-mode, is totally game changer. its worth noting most of Max's interface was written in Max, and everything can be hacked apart live like with smalltalk. the talks I used to give with the presentation systems I would create for each talk were some of the coolest things I've ever done, and I don't have that power any more, or know where I could find it except perhaps #squeak and #pharo.