Cirdan

Cirdan, 1 month ago

CC uses Commons Capitalism Entities (CCEs). They are nonprofit corporations that have no shareholders. The CCE would have one or more wholly-owned for-profit subsidiaries. Each CCE would hold the means of production and net profits as a "commons," and the commons resources are used by five or more disparate groups. 2/8

Cirdan, 1 month ago

A substantial part of the resources is distributed to employees as premium wages with Nordic-style benefiits. The remainder of the resources are used to purchase other companies and similarly pay the new employees or create replicate CCEs who, in turn, acquire more for-profit entities as wholly owned subsidiaries. 3/8

Cirdan, 1 month ago

The benefits of Commons Capitalism are, as follows:

The primary benefit is to distribute profits to workers in the form of premium wages and Nordic-style benefits and spinoff replicate entities. The secondary benefit is to equitably distribute wealth, via worker's wages, throughout the community. The tertiary benefit is to halt the accumulation of the means of production in fewer and fewer individuals. 4/8

Cirdan, 1 month ago

Here is a community that uses a form of Commons Capitalism:

https://www.ccmss.org.mx/wp-content/uploads/The-community-as-Entrepreneurial-firm.pdf

It's been going strong for over fifty years.

In the US economy, each CCE can use continually, but fluctuating, renewable wealth, i.e., the means of production and net income, as the common pool resources and a board of five or more working directors instead of a whole community to run and maintain each of the CCEs. 5/8

Cirdan, 1 month ago

Commons Capitalism could begin tomorrow. It avoids the necessity of revolution, and guarantees what will replace traditional capitalism. It's a system that once it is established in the economy, will continue to multiply and provide better pay and benefits to tens of millions of workers. It would work great in a market economy and would out perform traditional capitalism in most industries. 6/8

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
A CCE is not a worker cooperative. A cooperative is an entity that is owned and controlled by its members, which operates for their financial benefit and is often based on the workers’ labor contribution to the cooperative. A CCE is an entity that is not owned by anyone and is controlled by a board of directors that operates the CCE for the benefit of certain disparate groups, one of which is the group of current workers.

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
Worker-owners of a cooperative often manage the day-to-day operations through various management structures. Day-to-day management of the commons capitalism LLC is performed by business professionals. In the CCE, workers at the LLC level only have some control over the retention of personnel and the distribution of property at various management levels.

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
I have a lot of respect for coops of any kind. But my research demonstrated that I had to jettison the ideas of equality, democracy, and egalitarianism and concentrate on running an effective business and distributing benefits equitably while preventing any claims of ownership rights.

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@itty53
The point is that Commons Capitalism could be created under existing federal and state laws and regulations. It is structured to outcompete traditional capitalism in virtually any industry.

Several points haven't had a chance to be discussed. First is the question of funding the first CCE. The whole process of populating CCEs will take 50, 75, 100 years? The political battles that will be brought to bare by capitalists. Commons Capitalism is just a rudimentary idea.

#CommonsCapitalism

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@freemo @Radical_EgoCom @Vincarsi
I understand your reasoning and why you think that way, but I wholeheartedly disagree with most of your conclusions.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@ArneBab
But there is a myriad of examples where innovation preceded wealth. The most obvious current example is Nicola Tesla.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@ArneBab
You've said a lot that needs to be unpacked. You're right; the accumulation of wealth does harm society and, also, but more indirectly harms its economic growth. For some people getting rich from patents may drive their quest for innovation but, from my limited experience with innovators, they have an unscratchable itch that drives them forward, getting the job done at work or solving their immediate problem.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@ArneBab
The problem with coming up with good policy is that it is largely based on harmful capitalistic assunptions. Traditional capitalist thinking permeates everything; it's ubiquitous. Was it Hyppocrates who was quoted for 1,000 years, and if a person criticized him, it was blasphemy. The same thing is happening with the concept of traditional capitalism.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@ArneBab
I appreciate your realizing how generalized it is. From my research, I realize that traditional capitalism is the sinister cause of a lot of our economic problems and any policies based on traditional capitalism. In particular, traditional capitalism causes the insane lemming-approach to garnering the most net profits possible and the accumulation of wealth in fewer and fewer people.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@ArneBab
I'm not a Marxist quoting socialist; I'm a capitalist. There is an alternative to traditional capitalism. It's called Commons Capitalism. It does what socialism wanted to do but never could find the path. Commons Capitalism spreads the means of production and profits by giving the workers good salaries and Nordic-style benefits while slowing down the accumulation of capital. It can out perform traditional capitalists in the market economy.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@ArneBab
Good question. Most people understandably think there is only one form of capitalism, i.e., where the net profit and the means of production are owned, directly or indirectly, by individuals. That's how it's been for 400 years. But that's not the only way those items can be owned. They don't need state ownership or public ownership. They can be held by nonprofit corporations for the benefit of workers.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@ArneBab
When people try to understand Commons Capitalism, their first thought is to think of a coop. Coops are owned like shareholders owning a corporation. This is not a coop. The best way to think of Commons Capitalism is to think of the net profits and means of production being held as a commons to give good wages and benefits to its present and future workers, a system of capitalism that will spread its wages and benefits to other workers eventually on a national scale

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@ArneBab
No. Although it sounds like a good organization. I do have one question. They advertise job openings. If a person is hired for the job, do they come in as an employee or as an owner?

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@ArneBab
What I'm talking about is holding the means of production as a commons, e.g., there is a town in Mexico that holds a forest for the benefit of the community. It's been running strong for 50 years. It gives higher wages and social benefits to its workers that are virtually unheard in most of Mexico. It competes in a national and global market economy.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
Good video. I liked it, especially pointing the dangers advocated by Milton Friedman and the Chicago School.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
Your video was nicely paced and enjoyable to listen to. I share your concerns about capitalism and socialism. I think both traditional capitalism and socialism have been misdirected from their beginnings. Again nice video. Just don't get disheartened by the capitalist detractors.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
I sometimes compare the approach to capitalism as being similar to the approach to Hyppocrates. He was quoted for a 1000 years, and to contradict him was blasphemy. People have been quoting the same old rubric about traditional capitalism for 400 years. I think it's great to enlighten them the capitalism has many foundational faults that get magnified by people like Milton Friedman.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
One comment made by Milton Friedman is wholly repugnant and totally vitiates his concept of capitalism. He said that capitalism is based on greed. That's incorrect. It's based on fear, the fear of failing to make a profit. His idea runs counter to my experience working with business clients for twenty-five years. Many successful clients told me horror stories about how they were nearly bankrupted.

Cirdan, 2 months ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
Friedman extolled his rubric from an ivory tower, not from experience working with businesses sometimes until midnight. I only had one greedy business client and not for long. His approach to business was to cut whomever he could, have no respect for anybody, and skirt the laws where necessary. Friedman's definition fit him, but not the rest of my business clients.