Cirdan

Cirdan, 13 days ago

@ChrisMayLA6
I am in favor of worker's coops. However I noted some weeks ago the following about Mondragon:

1. In order to become an owner-worker, you have to invest in one of the worker coops;
2. A large portion of the employees are not owner-workers; and
3. They have a problem having international workers because of their business model.

I think a part of what makes Mondragon successful is that it is a Basque enterprise. I note that, recently, about 10,000 workers split off from Mondragon.

Cirdan, 13 days ago

@ChrisMayLA6
I'm not trying to be negative about Mondragon, but I ask, "Why other 'Mondragons' haven't sprung up elsewhere?" But in any event, "hats off" to Mondragon for what they have achieved.

Cirdan, 13 days ago

@ChrisMayLA6
I enjoy listening to Dr. Richard Woolf, an American Marxist economist. He is an advocate for worker's cooperatives. However, my impression is that a worker's cooperative would be a default enterprise to Commons Capitalism Entities (CCEs). While worker's coops can employ 10s of thousands of worker-owners, CCEs can employ tens of millions of workers, and they don't have to be owners.

#capitalism #CommonsCapitalism

Cirdan, 13 days ago

@ChrisMayLA6
Commons Capitalism is a much better form of capitalism than traditional capitalism, i.e, corporations or entities directly or indirectly owned by individuals. The net profits are distributed as higher wages and benefits for workers of a Commons Capitalism Entity. No profits go to shareholders.

Commons Capitalism is a concept that complies with all current federal and state laws, can be financed readily with conventional financing, and would out perform traditional capitalism.

Cirdan, 13 days ago

@ChrisMayLA6

#capitalism #CommonsCapitalism

A primer for Commons Capitalism can be found at:

https://awscommunity.social/@Cirdan/112243968905412602

and an example of Communal Capitalism which is similar to Commons Capitalism can be found at:

https://www.ccmss.org.mx/wp-content/uploads/The-community-as-Entrepreneurial-firm.pdf

This community has been going strong for over 50 years.

Neither is a form of socialism although they accomplish results similar to that of socialism. Further, neither of these economic systems are workers cooperatives.

Cirdan, 13 days ago

@tokensane @ChrisMayLA6
One way would be through 100 percent financing with a guarantor. The Commons Capitalism Entity could apply the entire net profit toward the loan until it was paid in full.

Cirdan, 13 days ago

@tokensane @ChrisMayLA6
That depends on the guarantor.

Cirdan, 12 days ago

@tokensane @ChrisMayLA6
Also, there would be zero investing in the CCE. The CCE would own all the assets and have NO investors.

Cirdan, 12 days ago

@tokensane @ChrisMayLA6
First, the CCE would target a healthy, asset based company. Upon it's acquisition, NONE of the acquisition costs would be foisted on the target company. It would become a wholly owned subsidiary. The loan for the acquisition would be 100 percent of the assets plus all the stock in the target company.

Cirdan, 12 days ago

@tokensane @ChrisMayLA6

Second, for example, the loan could be backed by a collaterally backed guarantee from a large charitable organization.

Cirdan, 12 days ago

@tokensane @ChrisMayLA6
Probably from seed money from charitable donors. But once a CCE comes into existence, it needs no other seed money. If Leonard Leo can receive a $1.6B donation (in the form of the Tripp Lite Corporation) for the Federalist Society, don't you think it's possible to get seed money that would change the face of capitalism and employ tens of millions of workers giving them premium pay and Nordic-style benefits and stopping the accumulation of the means of production?

Cirdan, 12 days ago

@tokensane @ChrisMayLA6
Well, a "maybe" is better than a "no way!"

Cirdan, 12 days ago

@tokensane @ChrisMayLA6 I'm working on that. Right now I doing a survey of the nonprofit corporation law of all 50 states. Next, I'll be discussing the application of E. Ostrum's laws to the board of directors of the nonprofit corporation. For example, the net profits might need to be paid on the purchase-money loan to the exclusion of the other disparate groups. At other times, in lean years, the profits might be needed solely for payment of benefits.

Cirdan, 12 days ago

@tokensane @ChrisMayLA6
Because net profits and cash flow needs can swing widely, no mathematical formula can be derived to distribute profits from year to year. Hence, Ostrom's Governing the Commons makes the most sense.

Cirdan, 1 month ago

Commons Capitalism could begin tomorrow. It avoids the necessity of revolution, and guarantees what will replace traditional capitalism. It's a system that once it is established in the economy, will continue to multiply and provide better pay and benefits to tens of millions of workers. It would work great in a market economy and would out perform traditional capitalism in most industries. 6/8

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
A CCE is not a worker cooperative. A cooperative is an entity that is owned and controlled by its members, which operates for their financial benefit and is often based on the workers’ labor contribution to the cooperative. A CCE is an entity that is not owned by anyone and is controlled by a board of directors that operates the CCE for the benefit of certain disparate groups, one of which is the group of current workers.

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
Worker-owners of a cooperative often manage the day-to-day operations through various management structures. Day-to-day management of the commons capitalism LLC is performed by business professionals. In the CCE, workers at the LLC level only have some control over the retention of personnel and the distribution of property at various management levels.

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
I have a lot of respect for coops of any kind. But my research demonstrated that I had to jettison the ideas of equality, democracy, and egalitarianism and concentrate on running an effective business and distributing benefits equitably while preventing any claims of ownership rights.

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@itty53
The point is that Commons Capitalism could be created under existing federal and state laws and regulations. It is structured to outcompete traditional capitalism in virtually any industry.

Several points haven't had a chance to be discussed. First is the question of funding the first CCE. The whole process of populating CCEs will take 50, 75, 100 years? The political battles that will be brought to bare by capitalists. Commons Capitalism is just a rudimentary idea.

#CommonsCapitalism

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@itty53
It needs to be debated by economists, capitalists, socialists, attorneys, accountants, business executives, social historians to name a few. I realize how important is this concept. That's why I'm bringing forward now; I'll be long dead before the first CCE is funded.

#capitalism #economics #socialism #CommonsCapitalism #CCE

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
The important points of this approach is that it negates this nasty idea of individual ownership and claims of stakeholdership.

Good observations made by you. One of the issues I realized in my research is that, when traditional capitalism developed, it usurped the position of the ancient customs used for governing "commons."

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
If you read Elinor Ostrom's book on "Governing the Commons," she addresses the Tragedy of the Commons." That research helped her win the Nobel prize and is used by me to explain how to distribute profits to several disparate groups.

Cirdan, 1 month ago

@GhostOnTheHalfShell
Quite possibly. But, going through the research, I've had several moments where what I found I never anticipated, e.g., using distribution to workers to accomplish what socialism would attempt to do and employing a "commons" to distribute wealth as a resource.

Cirdan, 13 days ago

@tokensane @GhostOnTheHalfShell No it's not a trust. And workers would not be stakeholders (or beneficiaries) in any way. That would be made clear in the articles of incorporation.

Cirdan, 13 days ago

@tokensane @GhostOnTheHalfShell
Not in a legal sense. The CCE would be set up to distribute the net profit across five disparate groups: the nonprofit corporation, the subsidiary, a pension group to pay benefits to retired employees, a benefits group to pay benefits to current employees, and an acquisition group to acquire new targets. And, no. Nobody will be deemed a beneficiary of the profits.