@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

RD4Anarchy

@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social

THC-infused, dada-inspired boomer, latecomer to anarchism, literally living the meme now in my mother's basement, with my partner and two cats.
No tankies, campists or ancaps tolerated.
he/him

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adamgreenfield, to random
@adamgreenfield@social.coop avatar

I kinda buried the lede yesterday: my next book “Lifehouse: Taking Care of Ourselves in A World On Fire” is finally available for pre-order from Verso! It’s about how we organize ourselves as communities to survive the climate-systems collapse unfolding all around us, drawing on lessons from the Black Panther survival programs, Occupy Sandy and the Crisis-era Greek solidarity clinics straight through to municipalism in Spain and democratic confederalism in Rojava! https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/products/2536-lifehouse

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@adamgreenfield

As a student of anarchism, most of my reading has been online or downloaded, but I've begun to get a notion that I want to start a physical library. I've pre-ordered your book as the first official addition! It will join my physical copies of "A People's History of the US", "Debt" and "Dawn of Everything".

HeavenlyPossum, to random
@HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social avatar

I remember being pretty young and asking my parents—is this it? We go to school every day and then we get a job and go to work every day and this is our lives, forever? Just living each day according to someone else’s schedule, at someone else’s command? This is life?

And they were pretty flummoxed. Yeah, they said, this is life. What did you expect? This is what you do and then you die.

These are the same people who showed my Koyaanisqatsi when I was like six and encouraged me to internalize its message that capitalist modernity is catastrophically, irrevocably broken and unsustainable.

And I just think…a lot of people hold pretty good beliefs in the abstract but it doesn’t occur to them to live as if they were actually true.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@mark @HeavenlyPossum

Capitalism is not some social evolutionary adaption that spontaneously arose from the grass roots of humanity. It is an oppressive regime that was forced upon the world by a tiny group of people with concentrated power, for their own benefit.

Those of us with anarchist leanings seek a bridge out of this prison, and not necessarily a bridge to an alternative structure, but an escape to the freedom to cooperate and organize voluntarily without hierarchical power structures and institutionalized coercion.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @acm_redfox @hosford42

and this is why:

https://kolektiva.social/@HeavenlyPossum/110933753705683799

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@LanguageMan1 @HeavenlyPossum

Capitalism is a description of an already existing system, not some imagined ideal. It absolutely exists and has permeated every level and aspect of our existence.

Capital is the true god of this world and capitalism is the official state religion of every country on the planet, and has been since at least the early 20th century.

Attributes of welfare states are not socialism. These attributes are always about preserving capitalism by preventing revolt. They are not humanitarian gestures nor are they based on any real principles of socialism, which is means of production being controlled and owned by workers. (Communism btw is a stateless, classless society).

What you call "socialist" states are just state capitalism. They have not eliminated capital or wage slavery, they are not independent of the global capitalist system. They have not eliminated Enclosure or private property (it's just owned by state instead of private individuals, but the essential characteristics of exclusion and control still apply).

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @LanguageMan1

Thanks, just setting the record straight, however they decide to deal with it or not.

HeavenlyPossum, to random
@HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social avatar

I take such immense satisfaction from composting.

From the earth, to the earth.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@HeavenlyPossum

That sounds pretty cool. How long have you been doing it?
How long does the cycle take?

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@neonsnake @HeavenlyPossum @richpuchalsky @violetmadder

We have plenty of space outside. I would be looking to compost typical organic waste mostly, vegetable and fruit remains, eggshells, coffee grounds, maybe leaves and stuff from the yard.

A local said they bury theirs with layers of lawn clippings and sawdust. He doesn't do piles because he says critters dig into them. I know we have squirrels, probably possums, and something underground, maybe moles or voles or something. Don't know if there are raccoons around here or not.

It does freeze here, we get some snow but it varies from winter to winter. Gets very hot in the summer.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@neonsnake @HeavenlyPossum @richpuchalsky @violetmadder

We haven't started anything yet but we'd like to start some vegetable gardening (but whether we ever get beyond just thinking about it is another thing). I also have relatives nearby who garden, but not sure yet if any are composting.

urlyman, to random
@urlyman@mastodon.social avatar

@jackofalltrades just to say thank you for trying so hard in this thread https://mas.to/@jackofalltrades/112133626258185236

The number of people imputing things they wanted to hear, seemingly so they could accuse you, but which you didn’t say, and/or not investing any curiosity in what you did actually point them at… was quite something.

It kind of brings home just how much is functionally invisible

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@jackofalltrades @urlyman

Perhaps some of us were seeing this discussion as a debate on whether coercive power structures are justified or not.

I would prefer to live in a world free of such than in a world of institutionalized coercion, especially if civilization is going to collapse no matter what.

Regenerative agriculture and abolishing unjust hierarchies might not be enough to save us but it's still the right direction to struggle for IMO.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@jackofalltrades @urlyman

To what end? Overshoot trumps everything, you've told us. Our suggestions are quaint and well-intended but naive, and there really isn't any way out.

The idea you want to communicate more clearly, is it basically just to prepare for the end?

I'm not saying that's not a valid communication. Maybe I missed something but if that idea had been presented as your position up front in that discussion, things might have gone differently. Maybe not. 🤷‍♂️

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@jackofalltrades @urlyman

Everybody agreed that cities as they function now cannot continue sustainably. All the evidence you've presented about cities being parasitic or "colonial" is based on the way they are now, while we were all making suggestions about how different they could be based on various ideas both modern and reflecting on past human endeavors, and would be if the constraints and demands of capitalism were absent (which is really much more than just "employee - employer relations" and would have far-reaching fundamental affects on how things are done that I'm not sure you've acknowledged), and indeed would have to be in order to continue.

Likewise with data you presented on fertilizer use in modern industrial agriculture, data which resulted from the dysfunctional system we have now and all the unimaginable waste, inefficiencies, depletion and destruction it generates. This cannot continue, but I also don't think it represents any useful baseline for us to extrapolate from because it is so thoroughly a result of capitalist practices.

>>The "end" we need to prepare for is the end of high-energy lifestyles, and that includes big cities.<<

Absolutely agree about high-energy lifestyles, but am not convinced that cities necessarily have to be that way. Others have pointed out already that cities do present opportunities for more efficient use of energy and other resources in many cases (even if those aren't being exploited now as much as they could be).

For sure we could not expect to maintain cities in their current form, but to me this is because of many other considerations around capitalist technology and lifestyles, not about simple numbers of people gathered together (up to a point, of course). Every location will have a unique capacity. I don't know if cities could continue to be as large as many are now, probably not, but I'm not convinced they couldn't or shouldn't exist at all.

And always lurking in the back of my mind was to cut to the chase about coercion. If you also do not support the use of institutionalized coercion then what are you going to do about these cities that you think should not exist? How would you disperse them in a voluntary way?

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@Loukas @jackofalltrades @urlyman

Yes, "the coercion that's directing such a high concentration of resources into megacities" has been a huge point I for one have tried to make. I don't know whether they would "tend to dissolve into the hinterland" always or not, but the point is that they would be very different "of their own accord" compared to under capitalism.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@jackofalltrades @Loukas @urlyman

>>The idea that without capitalism we will become less wasteful and more mindful of our global predicament sounds implausible to me.<<

I don't know why 🤷‍♂️

Unless you really just don't see how capitalism drives so much waste, depletion and destruction, or if you think capitalism is an entirely voluntary system, not coercive.

I mean look at just one tiny and very limited example and think about the potential ramifications: police defending dumpsters of expired food from being utilized by hungry people, and retailers intentionally fouling such food to prevent people from eating it. This is a very simple, direct example. Others are more deeply embedded into the way things work now; the motivations and constraints capitalism injects everywhere.

The narrative you're pushing here is that capitalism is not to blame and removing it won't change anything, but the evidence and arguments you keep presenting are all based on conditions that were created by capitalism and have to be constantly maintained through great effort and violence.

I guess we have a huge disagreement over how capitalism affects people's behavior and circumstances.

As for megafauna extinction, it is not conclusive that humans were the main driver but even if true, it is not by itself a defining picture of our species, in fact there are many counter-examples:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2023483118

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@jackofalltrades @Loukas @urlyman

The USSR was state capitalism, it is not an example of another system, or of anything happening outside capitalism. Since at least the early 20th century all states have inextricably part of the global capitalist system. I recommend the book "State Capitalism: The Wages System Under New Management" by Adam Buick and John Crump
https://files.libcom.org/files/State%20Capitalism.pdf

All the examples you give continue to reflect the conditions and conditioning embedded in the world-wide capitalist system, not examples of people acting outside of its influence (both material and mental).

>>Societies all around the world tried different systems and due to material pressures and historical contingencies we've arrived at this point.<<

I do not believe this narrative at all. Nobody voted for capitalism, nobody "arrived at it" after everything else failed. It did not arise spontaneously around the globe. Capitalism was violently forced upon the world, continuing on the heels of colonialism.

I absolutely reject the notion that it is a natural inevitable result of any kind of "evolution" and frankly I find no legitimate use in applying the word "evolution" beyond it's strict biological meaning. I can put up with casual usage, but not in a serious discussion when it gets used as a sort of authoritative shorthand.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@jackofalltrades @Loukas @urlyman

>>...just like agricultural societies violently drove away hunter gatherer societies before that.<<

I suspect this may be an overly broad generalization and oversimplification.

"Actually, what happened [in the Middle East] after the invention of agriculture around 10,000 years ago, is a long period of around another 4,000 years in which villages largely remained villages.
And actually there's very little evidence for the emergence of rigid social classes, which is not to say that nothing happened.
Over those 4,000 years, technological change actually proceeded apace. Without kings, without bureaucracies, without standing armies, these early farming populations fostered the development of mathematical knowledge, advanced metallurgy. They learned to cultivate olives, vines and date palms. They invented leavened bread, beer, and they developed textile technologies: the potter's wheel, the sail. And they spread all of these innovations far and wide, from the shores of the eastern Mediterranean, up to the Black Sea, and from the Persian Gulf, all the way over to the mountains of Kurdistan..."

https://www.ted.com/talks/david_wengrow_a_new_understanding_of_human_history_and_the_roots_of_inequality/transcript?language=en

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@jackofalltrades @Loukas @urlyman

There are criticisms of their work, sure, there are also criticisms of those criticisms, and there are also defenders of their work.

Is there any reference from anyone that can ever be made that absolutely nobody has criticisms of?

So I reject your attempt to write them off entirely and conveniently!

I've actually still not read "Dawn of Everything" yet. If you have specific facts to counter the specific information that I was sharing from Wengrow specifically, then by all means present it.

4,000 years of history in the middle east doesn't strike me as "cherry-picking".

"total disregard for the effects of biological evolution"? Where does that come from? Specifically what biological changes are you referring to that have occurred in humans over the last 10,000 years or so?

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@jackofalltrades @Loukas @urlyman

>>The present state of global extractivism that majority of human population participates in and benefits from, I would add.<<

I'm tempted to just straight up block you for this statement because it is incredibly superficial and naive, yet you don't strike me as superficial and naive.

"capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty!!1!!" 😬

People in the imperial core are dying of heart disease linked to microplastic accumulation in their blood vessels. Climate change is a consequence that will affect everyone. Capitalism has utterly warped and damaged many people who are affluent beneficiaries.

People participate because they have no choice. Many benefits are dubious and all have costs, often not reckoned yet.

If we're all participating voluntarily and truly benefit then everything is ok, why are we even having this discussion? I get social security benefits, I have a car and a place to live, I eat cookies and drink beer, I should just STFU, what do I have to complain about?

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @neonsnake @Loukas @urlyman @jackofalltrades

Jack said capitalism did not have an architect, yet he continues to fall back on the carefully crafted narrative that has been developed to justify it, a narrative that goes way back to men like Hobbes and Locke and has been maintained and reinforced ever since by the status quo who find it very convenient. The tragedy of the commons is an example of this, though disproven it still carries authority and it is basically Jack's argument throughout this whole episode.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@Loukas @neonsnake @HeavenlyPossum @urlyman @jackofalltrades

Who needs an architect when you have a triumphant and all-powerful god?

I refer to capital, and I haven't mentioned it for a while but one of my personal perspectives is that capital is like a form of AI that has been given autonomous authority over us. Hidden conspiracies, while not entirely absent are no longer necessary to drive things. Everyone is on the same page under capital, everyone knows the rules and is subject to the same demands and constraints.

These demands and constraints also serve the function of allowing our institutions and leaders to wash their hands of absolutely horrendous crimes against humanity and nature.

Ideologically driven attempts at other systems never even really tried to overthrow this god and as a result they were ideological in name only, and trying to implement these ideologies without eliminating capital only resulted in even worse atrocities.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@Loukas @neonsnake @HeavenlyPossum @urlyman @jackofalltrades

I should add in light of the other comments re: "dialectical" that when there are conflicts now, they serve capital. Whichever side wins, capital wins.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@Loukas @neonsnake @HeavenlyPossum @urlyman @jackofalltrades

Not sure what you mean by "problematised".

Does it work better for you if I say I'm talking about capital as a concept that has infected our minds and social relations? A concept that does not serve us well, in fact we all serve this concept to our own detriment.

But it is not a natural concept and not one that was developed for good reasons by people of good will.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@Loukas @neonsnake @HeavenlyPossum @urlyman @jackofalltrades

How would you describe the way capital exists?

>>...people often further the logic of capitalism while not having pro-capital ideas at all.<<

I'm not disputing this but I would be curious to look at a specific example or two for better understanding.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@Loukas @neonsnake @HeavenlyPossum @urlyman @jackofalltrades

>>in a general discussion like this I would probably talk about specific things and relate them to interactions with capital.<<

The discussion had turned to the notion that capitalism is not created or maintained by an "architect", yet we know that it has some very specific and consistent characteristics and that we are all subject to them. I think our interactions with capital show that capital is power. More specifically it's a measure of social relations of power.

Individual people or institutions have power thanks to capital. But if they perish, or capital is taken from them, they no longer have that power but the capital still exists, at least in our collective records.

>>...conservative aristocrats who turned to making agricultural commodities, and hence undermined the manorial system, despite their aim simply being to maintain their power as lords of the manor.<<

We're talking about transitional times here though right? Capital predates capitalism, but it didn't rule the world yet.

Anyway, it's just an idiosyncratic perspective of mine, I don't need to put any more energy into defending it for this discussion, it's pretty tangential to it.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@Loukas @jackofalltrades @neonsnake @urlyman

Jack continues to ignore power dynamics and structures.

>>We're not burning fossil fuels because we're stupid or because capitalism made us do it, but because they provide us with great benefits.<<

This completely ignores the process whereby fossil fuels became so readily available and their use so encouraged; it ignores the massive coercion that was necessary, it ignores the real motivations behind the extraction, it ignores the institutional motivations behind the fossil-dependent infrastructures we've been stuck with. It ignores the fact that states run the show, not "us".

It ignores capitalist realism and cultural hegemony.

It's that damn tragedy of the commons shit again and I reject it.

RD4Anarchy,
@RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social avatar

@jackofalltrades @Loukas @neonsnake @urlyman

No, the power blind version.

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