@julian@community.nodebb.org
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

julian

@julian@community.nodebb.org

Hi! I'm Julian, one of the co-founders of NodeBB, the forum software you are using right now. I started this company with two colleagues, Baris and Andrew, in 2013, and have been doing the startup thing since (although I think at some point along the way we stopped being a startup and just became a boring ol' small business). In my free time I rock climb, cycle, and lift weights. I live just outside Toronto, Canada, with my wife and three children.

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julian, to random
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

Does anyone know what the most broadly implemented standard is for signalling that a web page has an alternative ActivityPub endpoint?

What I found online (and with @evan and @silverpill's input) was to deliver a Link header and set a <link> tag, but it doesn't seem to work (at least with Megalodon)...

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@mauve thanks for the response. While I implemented the link tag for all user, post, topic, and category routes (basically, anything that had a corresponding AP endpoint), I only checked a link to a post, which should have returned a Note object.

I didn't check a link to a user profile, so maybe that's it.

AIUI, webfinger wouldn't apply for other object types.

@evan @silverpill

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@mauve Yeah, sure thing! This is the source code for one of them, it adds the link header when loading a topic.

You can try viewing the source of https://community.nodebb.org/post/99307 or making a HEAD call against it to see the meta tag and Link header, respectively.

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@mauve Also tested a user link, and that also didn't work β€” shrug maybe it'll work in yours?

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

Thanks @silverpill, in my case while making the call is definitely an option, I was hoping for something I could do pre-flight (e.g. an opportunistic HEAD call).

This issue provides some good guidance (with comments from @mauve and @snarfed.org@snarfed.org too!), so I'll have to see.

Perhaps it's just the app I'm using and it'll work fine via the web app for Mastodon.

NodeBB will implement a pre-flight HEAD call I think, although we don't yet.

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

Thanks @evan β€” that'd be appreciated!

@nightpool, this would be helpful in NodeBB's case where we have a web app, so rendering a link to something is just an anchor.

I could theoretically override the anchor click handler to do a backend round-trip to check whether we could load the content in-app, otherwise fall back to a regular browser behaviour (a page navigation).

For example, let's say I link out to Evan's profile here. If NodeBB knew that this link had an alternative AP endpoint, then we could redirect the user instead to the local representation of his profile

julian, to random
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

To refresh your memory, you can read the minutes of last week's meeting.

Please see @angus's note below regarding agenda preparation for the May WG meeting

Follow up

  1. The Social Web Community Group approved our application to turn this into a Task Force.
  2. Async work will happen across any federated platform followed by either (or both) of these categories

Next Meeting
We're going to have our next meeting in the first week of May.

Time
Please vote in our meeting poll. Whatever time we decide for this one, we'll aim to keep as our regular monthly slot.

Agenda
Please see this google doc. Everyone has comment permission. Julian will incorporate comments into the agenda.

Looking forward to seeing you at the next meeting!

My apologies for the delay. Angus and I have been working these past few weeks to hammer out some federation issues between our respective forum categories (the ones mentioned above re: async work.)

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@rimu You proposed an agenda item titled "What is up with Groups in Mastodon?"? Love it! Can you provide a bit of context behind that, and whether you're asking the question or looking to provide an answer?

omega, to random
@omega@community.nodebb.org avatar

This might be useful for the user - what do people think?

A dedicated Activitypub filter in categories view

0 - All posts mixed in topic listing view (current default)
1 - removes activity pubs post from listing view
2 - display only Activitypub post in listing view

Right now (I never knew this till I checked), you can alt-click (Mac) whatever grouping of categories you want listed, but when you want to just take out the non-native ActivityPub stuff, I can't see how to do this.

As I type I'm wondering maybe then perhaps a grouping feature, where a user can make their own filter groups for viewing listings might be the cool solution. However I don't want to overcomplicate anything. There is similar in Discourse and I never use it.

I do think for the UX clear differentiation actions and points need to be available to the user, espcially if blending in ActivityPub content in with native forum content.

For a fast solution this perhaps this could be handled and tucked into the "All Topic" filter button, with at leat two new options:

  • exclude activitypub posts
  • show activitypub post only

Maybe allowing that then be the users default until they change it.

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@omega Right now in pages where there is a list of topics (e.g. /recent, /popular, etc.) there's a filter for "Uncategorized", which would essentially exclude everything else.

It's not as clear cut as excluding or only showing local topics, but that sort of achieves what you want. If you only want to see categorized topics, then you needn't select anything at all. By default, uncategorized topics are not shown.

What I think you're advocating for is a button to filter out ActivityPub topics even if they're categorized. That's where I think I might draw the line, because if a topic is categorized, then it is by that action it is considered (at least by the topic mover) to be related to the overall forum topic.

julian, to random
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

I have a clarification question for @nutomic regarding 1b12. There are instances where a group actor may have occasion to announce multiple notes all at once. For example:

  1. New notes discovered while traversing upwards to root β€” may want to announce all parent notes
  2. An existing topic/thread (containing a variable number of notes) is assumed by this group actor (e.g. it was moved to the category/forum).

What would be the expected behaviour from an implementor in that scenario? A single Announce(Collection)? Multiple Announce(Note) in chronological order?

During our testing, @angus
did warn me that a collection was announced, and that caused issues because NodeBB's implementation didn't (and still doesn't) account for that. I believe he changed up the behaviour now.

@trwnh, Angus did mention offline that you warned him about this in the past!

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

Ah it looks like this was covered by Angus' post over on SocialHub

nhl-pl, to random
@nhl-pl@community.nodebb.org avatar

After reading some of the ActivityPub and HTTP Signatures draft I have found forum software being mentioned here - ActivityPub Based Forums and Threaded Discussions.

They use GitHub Issues to get dev users feedback.

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@nhl.pl That's correct! That would be the GitHub repo for the new Social Web Incubator Community Group Forums and Threaded Discussions Task Force (what a mouthful!)

We're still figuring out governance and how to conduct discussions, but that's potential way.

trwnh, to random
@trwnh@mastodon.social avatar

i will not rest until fedi devs start using as:context properly. this is my single-issue. /hj

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@trwnh I'm only just noticing that the examples provided in 7888 don't include to, cc, etc. Are they omitted for brevity, or would it be a departure from the FEP if one were to add in those properties?

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@trwnh there's nothing specific in these two Notes that set them apart from any other note that was properly processed. I also don't have logs from that far back (because I was travelling last two days, sadly!)

If it happens again, please let me know and I'll take a closer look.

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@trwnh something @angus and I were discussing was that some implementations include OP in the Page/context (iirc Lemmy does this @nutomic), and subsequent replies are Notes, whereas NodeBB, Discourse, and later Flarum, treat the context as merely a container.

It seems the latter fits better with the vision of 7888 but I'm not sure whether concessions need to be made for those other types.

julian, to random
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

Prior our last task force meeting, @rimu brought up the need for a common nomenclature for ease of communication between ActivityPub implementors. Rimu also took the initiative to conduct an informal survey to see what terminology was used across fediverse-capable software (and some non-federating software).

Going beyond "toots" vs "posts", it was noted (not surprisingly) that each software has their own name for things.

  • The most common object type passed around via the ActivityPub protocol (as:Note) could be called a comment, a post, or a reply
  • A grouping of as:Notes could be a post (!!), a topic, a thread, a conversation, or a discussion
  • A higher order grouping of those could be a community, a category, a forum, a (sub)tag, a group, or a magazine

The main takeaways were that while there was occasional convergence, it wasn't entirely surprising that there were more names for things than things to name. Secondly, it was fairly clear that putting forth a recommendation to align on nomenclature would be fairly futile.

What were we expecting... naming things is, after all, one of the hard problems in computing.

All joking aside, up with a common terminology β€” a lingua franca (thanks @AaronNGray!) β€” definitely has some advantages.

What terms do you think communicate these levels of organization most succinctly? Let us know!

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@trwnh nope (although perhaps there should be heh).

It's entirely possible that some logic is faulty and causes posts to be dropped. That'd be less than ideal, and rather hard to catch, too.

Paul, to fediverse
@Paul@hades.town avatar

Anyone got an example of an object with type: "Article"?

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@mariusor @Paul I believe (hopefully wrongly) that few implementors send Article because Mastodon treats it like a generic object (only reads name and url and disregards content

Chicken and egg problem, nobody wants to be the first to publish it because it is consumed by so few.

Our newly formed forum and link sharing working group will hopefully address that shortcoming!

##### Threadiverse Working Group

NodeBB is at this year's FediForum, and one of the breakout sessions centred around the Theadiverse, the subset of ActivityPub-enabled applications built aro...

[ faviconNodeBB Community ()

](https://community.nodebb.org/topic/17908/threadiverse-working-group?lang=en-GB)

##### Threadiverse Working Group

NodeBB is at this year's FediForum, and one of the breakout sessions centred around the Theadiverse, the subset of ActivityPub-enabled applications built aro...

[ faviconNodeBB Community (community.nodebb.org)

](https://community.nodebb.org/topic/17908/threadiverse-working-group?lang=en-GB)

eeeee, to random
@eeeee@community.nodebb.org avatar

Maybe a basic question, but Im not sure, until theres a pre-release of Nodebb v4 (which I cant wait for!)
But will my forum fediverse account be enough for an all in one solution, so I wont necessarily need my Mastodon account too?
The reason Im asking is because, at times, ideal Mastodon hosts can be hard to find. I ran my own instance for a while, and many signed up - it was bursting at capacity before long πŸ™‚
So will a Nodebb v4 forum account be complete enough to be a full fediverse solution for those who use Mastodon etc.
Can I log into the fediverse mobile apps etc?
I tried logging into a couple I have on my android phone but it didnt work.
Not sure what my nodebb fed password is, (is it mirrored from my main account) or how to reset it?
1000016862.jpg

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@nhl.pl not sure how far we'd go but a sensible and safer option would be to allow you to log in via a different instance's username/password, but then you'd maintain your own local identity.

Just like how existing SSO systems work.

julian, to random
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

Okay, here's a little completely unintentional side-effect that blew my mind.

tl;dr β€” never miss a popular post again.

NodeBB tracks a number of metrics when the internal methods are called to create topics (or post replies). Metrics such as post counts, vote counts, view counts. It uses those to provide alternative sorting of topic lists β€” by post, votes, and views.

Incoming content from the fediverse/social web is also run through this same logic, and so those metrics ended up tracked too.

One of our users pointed out that remote topics were drowning out local topics in the /popular route, which makes sense given the imbalance in traffic. Unintentional, but not problematic. I tweaked the logic to filter out those topics unless explicitly asked for.

... and I ended up with this page, which allows you to see popular fediverse topics that my instance knows about. You can even drill down by day, week, month, or all time.

A common fediverse concern is that things get missed. If you live several time zones away from somebody else, you may never see their content pop up naturally in your feed. Trending posts (in Mastodon) addresses this somewhat, though.

It seems without any additional effort, NodeBB has already taken a step towards resolving this issue.

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@crazycells ok no problem. I will remove the /world/all page then πŸ˜‚

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@crazycells before you get scared, that page turns out to be identical to this page so it's superfluous!

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@crazycells that's correct. Content wise they're identical, so if /world/all doesn't show pagination then I will just remove it altogether.

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@crazycells I do not like repeated logic, as it adds maintenance burden. I will be removing it regardless πŸ™‚

julian, to random
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

I may regret creating this topic but here goes.

If you experience a bug or other unexpected behavior while using NodeBB and its related ActivityPub integration, please post it here so it can be tracked and resolved.

No formal process as of yet, and we're still at pre-alpha so expect many things to be broken or unavailable πŸ˜…

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@nhl.pl That's a weird one, are you still seeing that issue when replying to that topic? I wonder if it was a transient error.

julian,
@julian@community.nodebb.org avatar

@the@community.nodebb.org said in Pre-Alpha ActivityPub-related bug reports:

When you click on the world/all icon, the world/curated icon also highlights

Thanks, given that I'm going to remove the /world/all route altogether, this should no longer be an issue πŸ˜„

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