I would like to talk a little bit, and hear your opinions, on something not too often mentioned when discussing action resolution mechanics and processes in tabletop roleplaying games. That is when during the process you do the roll. The endpoints on that spectrum can be called Go then Roll and Roll then Go. At their extremes...
It is more vague, and I may not have chosen the best descriptions in an effort to be concise. Roll then Go often, but not always, doesn't resolve things task-by-task but takes a few steps back to a larger picture. A roll can cover a conflict or a whole scene. Back to the ogre for example, say it is rampaging through a village and you choose your character's action as directly engaging with it (fight in melee). You make your roll and from that we let the struggle play out. Some successes may be spent to minimize collateral damage, some to avoid damage and some to deal damage. Or perhaps if the roll wasn't that good successes could only be afforded to be spent on minimizing collateral damage. The choice of specific actions and outcomes are moved from before before the roll to afterwards when you know what specific actions you can afford.
Ironsworn is one of those games I really enjoy and fall into that middle ground. Let's take a look at the Clash move where it says
On a strong hit, inflict your harm and choose one. You have the initiative.
• You bolster your position: Take +1 momentum.
• You find an opening: Inflict +1 harm.
That choice after the roll, when we how how well the roll went leans into Roll then Go territory. Sojourn is another move in this style.
I see where you are coming from and we may just see things differently. Should you have the time then take a look at Panic! at the dojo, a combat focused martial arts game. Leans very heavily into Roll then Go. To do combat you each round choose a stance, which gives you your dice pool and a set of actions you can spend dice on. Haven't played it yet, barely even read the book but there was a video posted here some time ago from OSP about non-dnd systems which mentioned it.
I'm going to pause my 5e game for the month of July and try something else. I'm thinking about a PbtA game. I ran a few sessions of Masks years ago and it went okay. I'd never played anything that wasn't a d20 system and I remember feeling Masks was bending my brain a bit....
I have two Let's Play recommendations for you, however neither is for your preferred systems. They do however showcase well how fiction and mechanics interact.
First recommendation is one of the many solo plays of Ironsworn, or some other solo RPG. Since there is only the player and the game they have to rely on mechanics much more than if it was played in a group. Also since there is just one player, who also GMs, we tend to get insight into how they work with the rules. The Let's Play I'm going to recommend is one from Me, Myself and Die. It is also one of the more recommended ones with good production values. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?app=desktop&list=PLDvunq75UfH_Z92nrYPUsTO_fTHnLTNaT
Second is for the Dungeon World gack Stonetop. At this point calling it a hack is making it a disservice as it have evolved into its own thing. The DW ancestry is clear though. This Let's Play is from the creator of the system with his core playtester group. What makes it stand out it that it is really well edited cutting out plenty of non-play filler. In addition to that the editor have annotated the videos with comments about the mechanical choices the GM makes. Good for following along. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDdTGJVXI31C08Kem-oLzXqRgImtLzXKC
Like many 5e players, I investigated other systems during the drama in January. I have converted my table over to Pathfinder 2e, so that’s what I’ll mostly be running going forward....
It seems a bit odd in the context of games where the DM is given a lot of freedom to “make up” what happens, but I like the idea that the DM would actually have some currency in order to do broken things, rather than having effectively unlimited fiat for anything they do.
I thought so too when I begun running FFG's Star Wars but what struck me was that the dark side points I had was an invitation and encouragement to go hard on the characters. Of course there was nothing stopping me for upping difficulties and such, but with those points I did it more often. A great cure for being too nice.
This was a very good little video. What John talks about is the blades conundrum "how do I get a roll out of this without calling for an action roll". Instead of going task-by-task he advices to have the roll cover a whole conflict, like this instead of this. Do listen to it, it is only 10 minutes long.
The majority seems to agree that there is too much D&D in Dungeon World. For example, having attributes like Strength between 3 and 18 mostly adds complexity but little benefit. So everybody likes to hack Dungeon World: Chasing Adventure, Stonetop, World of Dungeons, Fellowship 2e, Homebrew World, …...
My preferred PbtA for games featuring fantasy adventuring is Ironsworn. Don't think it can be considered a DW hack as it doesn't even have playbooks. And by default it it far from heroic fantasy. But there are heroic fantasy out there for Ironsworn to scratch that itch.
If you give me a mechanic where I the player can manipulate the roll I will go for it. Let me manipulate the roll, play with the dice and let us bargain. I agree it is not for everyone, but I frakkin love it!
One thing that could be added to the bargain is the Devil's Bargain from Blades in the Dark. By accepting an extra negative outcome, that will always come true, I get a boon. Think it could be a good addition.
Up until 4e, DnD (and TTRPGs in general) were pretty much only spread through the game itself. You either knew someone who played, or maybe you heard about it on the internet and you were interested so you sought out a local game shop, something like that. Regardless, your first experiences with what DnD was like (ignoring...
D&D media came first for me with the Baldur's Gate games, followed by the Icewind Dales and onto the Neverwinter Nights. Didn't roll my first dice until 5e.
Ironsworn is a fantastic fiction-first RPG set in the Iron Age with options for solo or group play. This supplement provides additional mechanics for dungeon crawling and exploration.
Delve is an awesome supplement for anyone interested in running dungeons more narrative. Point-of-interest based dungeon exploration? Of course it is not limited to dungeons but can be used for any type of really dangerous (and confined) environments.
Made some notes in another place when I watched it. Might as well put them here as well
Yes there is some D&D bashing but on the lighter side. And not the focus but rather used a comparison and baseline for the discussion.
Enthusiastic. But then OSP are always enthusiastic.
They brought in an irregular guest who really, really likes to talk about rpgs.
Good spread and variety on system recommendations. Begun with combat heavy (Lancer, Wyrdwood Ward and Panic at the Dojo) and are now talking about PbtAs (WorldWide Wrestling, Legacy and blades is coming up).
Found one system I really need to play - Panic at the Dojo
Had a big rant about "forever GM whine". Talked how the "burden" could be mitigated and shared. But very ranty.
-Felt the pace slowed down and they started to drag things out. Partly because they got into a series of systems I'm not too interested in, really narrative and often GM-less games. Wanderhome, Bleak Spirit, Good Society and Miss Bernburg's Finishing School for young ladies. Just not my cup of tea. But the very creative presenters had lots to say about these systems.
Some sections towards the end about game engines and rpg designing.
Lightning round with another bunch of systems.
All in all well worth the two hours the video took watching.
If you put four spaces at the endof each line you get a line break without a paragraph break. If you want it directly formated into a list use the asterix *
What systems and/or campaigns are you currently actually playing? I spend so much time thinking about new systems and reading old ones, and I sometimes forget that playing is actually a part of things....
Running a Blades in the Dark game those playdates where the GM isn't available. A buch of small heists with little to no overarching development. I mean we play a few sessions every three months or so. It is the filler game.
Planning to do some one-shots of Panic! at the Dojo after hearing about it. With no character advancement (so I've heard) it sound like a great one-shot system. The dicerolling sounds fun and I do enjoy the easy access of Jackie Chan movies.
Working on (probably) an Ironsworn: Starforged: Sundered Isles set a couple of centuries after the catastrophic fall of the Eternal Empire. In short the last Eternal Emperor, the personification of the Red Moon goddess, tried to usurp the power of the Red Moon causing it to fall in the event known as the Moonfall shattering the central bureaucracy of the empire. And with that gone the empire fell apart within a generation. The immediate story draws inspiration from the Saga of Hervor and Heidrek (Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks). Especially the part of Hervor travelling to where her father and uncles were slain in a failed holmgång, reclaiming the sword Tyrfing and getting her aett cursed. And now that curse is upon the aett. Will hopefully be some good stuff.
Playing a tesmpest cleric in a DnD5e campaign where a demon-goblin horde is ravaging the land. The demon lord is Azeroth and is cold themed so plenty of Warcraft and the Frozen Throne memeing. Begun leaning a bit towards the surfer boy wanting to do good stuff and have transformed him into a smite first ask questions later kind of guy. And a if you are not fully with us against the horde of chaos you are against us. He is becoming a fanatic. Great suff.
Also in a Burning Wheel campaign where a play an engineer just wanting to do her day job, get reestablished in the city and possibly reconnect with her estranged daughter. Currently very stressed and very tired. The character doesn't want to do "adventuring" stuff but me the player make sure she get into the action. Love playing the mom of the group.
Since it's only the admins who can set up communities perhaps it would be a good idea to create a spot where we all can suggest and discuss what communties we are missing. For what it is worth it's kind of good that a themed/focused instance restrict community creation....
That is one good way to go about it. Letting the dust settle and all that. Still, if there are folks out there with good enough IT access willing to set things up and do the work I would love for someone else to take the initiative. Sounds a bit selfish but I only have decent IT access during the evenings so I cannot take on main responsibilities.
Keep up the good work and to all the mod inclined individuals out there - wink-wink hint-hint
My favorite PbtA is Ironsworn mainly how it handles progress tracks and how it encourages player agency in them. The best move is Fulfil Your Vow. Let me break it down and tell you about it.
When you achieve what you believe to be the fulfilment of your vow, roll the challenge dice and compare to your progress.
The trigger is not "when the tack is filled", no-no-no. It is "what you believe to be the fulfilment of your vow" as in when the narrative is at such a place that the player thinks the vow is fulfilled. Say you are searching a tomb for a magical dagger. In a sarcophagus you find one. At this point the player can consider the vow fulfilled, or they can keep on working on the vow making sure they got the right one. They may have found it when the tack got filled, or when the first progress was marked. Up to the player to decide.
On a strong hit, your quest is complete.
You make a roll, compare the result to the progress marked on the track and on a strong hit the vow is fulfilled. Basic stuff.
On a weak hit, there is more to be done or you realize the truth of your quest.
The quest is done, the vow fulfilled. But there are complicating factors. Now we get into the juicy stuff. First you have to "Envision what you discover" as in what is the complicating factor. Perhaps the dagger is cursed? It is one of a pair? Guarded by a wraith who begins hunting whoever is wielding the dagger? This compication also mechanically drive the narrative forward as "You may Swear an Iron Vow to set things right". Fix the new shit that got introduced by you trying to fulfil the vow with too little progress marked on the tracker. Juicy stuff.
On a miss, your quest is undone. Envision what happens, and choose one.
Traditional miss stuff, you don't get what you want and bad things are happening. First option is "You recommit", you try again but this time due to complications it will be harder. Perhaps the real dagger is in another tomb? Or that wraith guarding the tomb is wielding the dagger's phantom representation and now you have to figure out how to materialize it. Second option is "You give up: Forsake Your Vow". Forsake Your Vow is another move causing you distress as you abandon your promise and dedication. You suffer and others think less of you. In the eternal words of Nelson: har-har.
When I roll up a character for a game with a starting situation I have little influence over I start with what narrative impact I want to do. From what I know of the campaign whete I want to drive it. After that how I want to accomplish that, very much including things such as party role/niche and class. Backstory is generally something that comes last when I try and figure out why the character wants to do those things.
When I do have influence over the starting situation mechanical considerations comes earlier. I can mold the campain to a character idea rather than fitting a character into a campaign.
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Same procedure as always?
Go then Roll vs Roll then Go
I would like to talk a little bit, and hear your opinions, on something not too often mentioned when discussing action resolution mechanics and processes in tabletop roleplaying games. That is when during the process you do the roll. The endpoints on that spectrum can be called Go then Roll and Roll then Go. At their extremes...
Amorphis - Black Winter Day [Finland, 1994] (www.youtube.com)
Today is the last day Modiphius has the Conan licence and the last day the T H I C C Conan Mega PDF Bundle can be bought (www.modiphius.net)
Edit: Aaaand it's gone...
Advice and Resources for PbtA?
I'm going to pause my 5e game for the month of July and try something else. I'm thinking about a PbtA game. I ran a few sessions of Masks years ago and it went okay. I'd never played anything that wasn't a d20 system and I remember feeling Masks was bending my brain a bit....
A Pathfinder 2e mechanic that I will henceforth always use in 5e
Like many 5e players, I investigated other systems during the drama in January. I have converted my table over to Pathfinder 2e, so that’s what I’ll mostly be running going forward....
Game Rhythm & Calling For Rolls (John Harper) (www.youtube.com)
A short tips & techniques video about how to introduce the Action Roll into the flow of play in the tabletop rpg Blades in the Dark.
Your favorite Dungeon World?
The majority seems to agree that there is too much D&D in Dungeon World. For example, having attributes like Strength between 3 and 18 mostly adds complexity but little benefit. So everybody likes to hack Dungeon World: Chasing Adventure, Stonetop, World of Dungeons, Fellowship 2e, Homebrew World, …...
The Challenge Roll (3d6polarbears.blogspot.com)
By default, the challenge roll is 3-in-6, which represents rolling 3 or less on a d6 roll....
Which came first for you: DnD, or DnD media?
Up until 4e, DnD (and TTRPGs in general) were pretty much only spread through the game itself. You either knew someone who played, or maybe you heard about it on the internet and you were interested so you sought out a local game shop, something like that. Regardless, your first experiences with what DnD was like (ignoring...
Shawn Tomkin's Ironsworn: Delve is free to claim for Free RPG Day! (www.drivethrurpg.com)
Ironsworn is a fantastic fiction-first RPG set in the Iron Age with options for solo or group play. This supplement provides additional mechanics for dungeon crawling and exploration.
OSP recently released a good video on non-D&D TTRPGs (www.youtube.com)
If your group is looking to branch out, this looks like a pretty useful resource!
Community request thread
If there's a community you want added, comment it here. We'll create it, and you can comment in that community and we'll make you the mod of it.
Tell us what you are playing in or running right now!
What systems and/or campaigns are you currently actually playing? I spend so much time thinking about new systems and reading old ones, and I sometimes forget that playing is actually a part of things....
Missing communities
Since it's only the admins who can set up communities perhaps it would be a good idea to create a spot where we all can suggest and discuss what communties we are missing. For what it is worth it's kind of good that a themed/focused instance restrict community creation....
Powered by the Apocalypse: Favourite Basic Move?
Welcome to one and all who are coming here....
Mechanics or flavour first?
When making a character, do you prefer to start with the mechanics, backstory or aesthetics first?