#KnowNothing#CardiB is too stupid to realize that NOT voting for #Biden is a vote FOR #Trump, and that her boycott of #Election2024 could be her last — She might not get another opportunity to vote EVER.
@GottaLaff
It's not a message that pleases me, since I personally have very little doubt as to where said meme in fact originates. Which is not, as one may naively believe, to Joe Biden's left. @rameshgupta@SteveThompson
@GottaLaff@Eetschrijver@rameshgupta@SteveThompson
Very good cartoon. Idealism versus pragmatic reality. This 👇= best brief essay/OpEd I've seen stating the same thing, perhaps with a bit more substance to back up the message:
“Only years later did I realize that I was mistaken, and we missed an opportunity to have a president who might actually have made America great by championing racial justice, labor rights, and the war against poverty.
I hope that today’s campus #protesters don’t repeat our mistakes by abandoning #Biden, who already has a proven record of accomplishments in his first term”
People have been beating the “stick with Biden” drum for months.
I just hope those same people are raising their voices (as the protesters are doing) to push Biden toward being less terrible. He has missed no opportunity to ignore the Palestinians while embracing the absurd view that criticism of Israel is antisemitic.
Biden is not "terrible" for aiding Israel in an attempt to demilitarize Gaza's Hamas terrorist government. If anything, he's lukewarm.
24 nations, each with a valid right to attack Gaza's Hamas for kidnapping and butchering their citizens, let Israel take blame for trying to get back their hostaged citizens. Israel is the victim, not Gaza's Hamas government and its supporters. Hamas release of hostages ends it today.
They had just as much evidence as any prominent US Senator who ran for President (with relatively rare exceptions of those who served in other roles like RFK as AG).
@Crispius@Eetschrijver
Her not remaining quiet but instead trumpeting her "disappointment" with Biden really feels like there is a payday in here. Same as The Rock. POSs.
It's important to have a moral center. But morality has to imply action. If your supposed morality moves you to inaction when you know and don't care that the world will get worse due to your inaction, you're not moral at all. You're privileged and entitled
Alternatively you're a plutocrat/ geopolitical agenda troll/ agent provocateur and you're pushing inaction because you're malicious, acting on fools because you understand the real world effect
@benroyce@nicholas_saunders@rameshgupta You, like most people, appear to be a zealous moral realist / moral objectivist. Chiming in here to point out that there is another way of viewing things, as a moral skeptic / moral subjectivist. To the moral skeptic, "a strong moral core" is a fantasy that people simply hope exists.
yes. Trump can become president and you're personally f***ed
then all the entitled fools who imagine they have the privilege to not vote can Pikachu face
i'm sure they will find some way to blame others for what they did
it's always someone else's fault. our rights are on the line and they are asked to #vote but they can't sully themselves to matter in social responsibility and solidarity
what's important is maintaining the lie of their innocence
@benroyce@nicholas_saunders@rameshgupta FWIW I think people should vote for Biden and will vote for Biden. And I think not voting in protest is misinformed. I just have a moral skeptic streak and tend to reject moral arguments as a policy.
then i have nothing but love and respect for you and i embrace you
i would add though, that, considering what trump represents, morality itself is on the line. of course, morality never goes away, but anyone with half a brain understands trump has no moral center, and that absolutely has an effect on society and the world in terrible ways if such a malignant narcissist gains control of the white house again
i believe, correct me if i am wrong, that ramesh and i are saying voting is important. extremely important in november of this year, considering what is on the line
and i believe that mr. heavy breathing reply guy escarpment finds us to be "moral zealots" for that. which i find hilarious
@benroyce@escarpment@rameshgupta well, I'm more than okay with her choice. First off, and yes, I want #biden2024 to win, he's just not well. He may still step aside, but should've done so already. Perhaps Biden considers that no one else can beat Trump.
I'd say that Trump could only beat Biden. Similarly, Biden can only defeat Trump.
But Cardi B is, in a sense, just a regular citizen. She's probably worried about blowback, and just confused and frustrated.
you have a choice between a shit sandwich and a rotten sardine sandwich
if you have the choice to eat neither you're entitled and privileged: you're well fed
if you have no food, you're going to eat the rotten sardine sandwich
not because it's wonderful, but it beats starving
i wish those who are rich or white or powerful stood in responsibility and solidary with those who are trans, or a woman who needs an abortion, etc, and just fucking #vote
@benroyce@nicholas_saunders@rameshgupta I assume there is a moral argument to be made that the best thing for humanity the planet the environment & the future is to push us down a dark awful route that brings about a global collapse sooner rather than later as in the long run things will improve faster from the ashes of our old/archaic "civilisation". But this would very much wander into the "the ends justify the means" sociopathic worldview. But both seem like two cheeks of the same arse.
@benroyce@nicholas_saunders@rameshgupta these people have always existed, in one form or another, it's just now they can be organised & managed on a global scale & paid for their troubles. They don't really concern me. What actually concerns me is apathy, that is the fastest path to either global collapse or global fascism (both paths look virtually the same) but we are bound by a universal structure that poisons everything, which is the bastardised version of capitalism we all participate in.
@rameshgupta@benroyce@nicholas_saunders choosing to not vote is the same as choosing to not join in with capitalism, it makes you feel morally superior but actually does nothing to improve the situation whatsoever, working to improve those systems that have been forced on us is more likely to encourage more people to join you, well thought out changes are easy to get support for as long as they are promoted as a positive, not an "anti", people get put off by extreme people shouting at them...
@rameshgupta@benroyce@nicholas_saunders there is a reason that "never let the perfect be the enemy of the good" is the truest way to live your life & the best way to bring people with you in real numbers...
I'll pick up the mantle of the apathetic. If Trump achieved one thing it's this: breaking the stranglehold Democrats have over the Black vote.
But, then, I don't see this as an existential threat the way, literally, everyone else here seems to. In my estimation the Constitution is sufficiently robust and our institutions strong enough to handle bad actors.
@benroyce@Vonskinnback@rameshgupta fair point with regards to Trump. However, the fact of the matter is that, if the polls are to believed, blacks are no longer voting as a bloc for Democrats.
I'm a Democrat. Just to the left of Marx.
I think that's a great thing. Regardless of how or why. But I'm also optimistic about the course of our country and don't perceive this as an existential threat as you would seem to.
@nicholas_saunders@rameshgupta@benroyce the UK (just as the US) has heard the structure of their own democracy creek & groan under the pressures applied to it over the last 16/17 years & though it has sprung a few leaks (on both sides of the Atlantic) it has held pretty strong & there is only so long that people can deny reality before it kicks down your door & slaps you around the face with a gigantic haddock, as is the nature of observable reality...
@Vonskinnback@rameshgupta@benroyce ah, well, when the Gestapo are stomping my face, as per Orwell, I can think back to this discussion and will, if possible, post that you are correct.
And of course Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh, Father Coughlin and others wanted to do it in the United States and had plenty of help from the resurgent KKK.
The electoral system is rigged through gerrymandering, or other means, to the extent that my individual vote would've never had an effect on any election I'm aware of.
Yes, that's a logical fallacy -- but there you are. If the world were logical, but it's not.
i am trying to insult you, but you are entitled and privileged. there will be no negative effects to you because you're not a woman who needs an abortion or a trans person, etc
eventually though, after the fascists have consolidated power, it will effect you personally, and you should have the honesty and foresight to acknowledge this
or don't. just say you don't care. in which case, why even comment on the topic? you don't care
because everyone who doesn't vote in those places where it does matter, are simply places where it used to not matter. it's just obliviousness and apathy sliding us into hell
voting is a social responsibility. if you lack it, ok, but recognize that you are failing society here
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