justyourluck,
@justyourluck@masto.ai avatar

Has it been proven that one cannot get infected with from non raw milk?

Because last I heard there have been no studies done.

Or am I wrong?

Because...

1/

justyourluck,
@justyourluck@masto.ai avatar

2/

Because on Apr 12, just 10 days after CDC published "Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza A(H5N1) Virus in Animals: Interim Recommendations for Prevention, Monitoring, and Public Health Investigations" that said:

"...should avoid unprotected direct physical contact or close exposure w/sick or dead birds or other animals, carcasses, feces,

milk

or litter from sick birds or other animals potentially infected or confirmed to be infected w/ HPAI A() virus."

...

justyourluck,
@justyourluck@masto.ai avatar
justyourluck,
@justyourluck@masto.ai avatar

4/

The FDA seemed uncertain on Apr 25, a full 13 days AFTER "(raw)" was added to the CDC 's guidance:

"Additional testing is required to determine whether intact pathogen is still present and if it remains infectious"

Ya think??

Now, whether or not it has since been proven, the fact remains, they didn't yet know for sure and then played it down in the guidelines.

I find them all less than trustworthy. YMMV

grumpybozo,
@grumpybozo@toad.social avatar

@justyourluck If 20% of the US milk supply has , then we've already effectively done the study, because we don't have a human pandemic. We would, if it were possible for pasteurized milk to be a significant vector.

Also, we’ve known for decades that pasteurization effectively kills influenza viruses. Pasteurization degrades both the protein capsules protecting viruses and their genetic material. What is in milk after pasteurization are fragments, not whole viruses.

feld,
@feld@bikeshed.party avatar
grumpybozo,
@grumpybozo@toad.social avatar

@feld @justyourluck Yeah, well, not much to lose there…

feld,
@feld@bikeshed.party avatar

@grumpybozo @justyourluck it's a fun way to get it transmitted to humans faster than through the farm workers

justyourluck,
@justyourluck@masto.ai avatar

@grumpybozo

@feld

They. Are. People.

feld,
@feld@bikeshed.party avatar

@justyourluck @grumpybozo I grew up in a farming community and have had raw milk... but if we are going to normalize this we also need to normalize public health authorities and take precautions when these events are happening.

e.g., You can eat raw eggs in Denmark without concern because they require complete destruction of flocks when salmonella is detected. We don't have the courage or the brains to do that in America because culture wars and factory farming are all in the pursuit of money anyway

grumpybozo,
@grumpybozo@toad.social avatar

@feld @justyourluck I’ve drunk raw milk too, from a literal family farm that had about a dozen Holsteins: decades before there was any sort of ideology attached or H5N1 risk. There was definitely some risk but it was unlike the modern circumstance. There is no good reason to not pasteurize milk and H5N1 is just one more pathogen in a long list that can appear in raw milk. I’d be MUCH more concerned by the risk of Listeria, Botulism, or enterohemorrhagic E. coli.

feld,
@feld@bikeshed.party avatar

@grumpybozo @justyourluck People just don't want to accept that the world is different today. There wasn't even an interstate highway (I90) to Seattle until 1987

Trade is different, farming is different. The goods you buy are not from your local community anymore. People are constantly traveling across the country. Pathogens and food contamination is no longer localized. We're feeding stuff to our cows that are increasing their risk of illness (broiler litter -- chicken shit)

justyourluck,
@justyourluck@masto.ai avatar

@grumpybozo

How this whole "we've essentially done studies since we guinea pigged the country letting them beta test {foo} on the population" ( WITHOUT all the records and testing and everything involved in a proper study) is an ok metric is beyond me.

People who volunteer for studies sign paperwork and go into it WILLINGLY.

But what you said is a generalization, & even the FDA says more testing is needed. *See other comments on this thread

feld,
@feld@bikeshed.party avatar

@justyourluck @grumpybozo > WITHOUT all the records and testing and everything involved in a proper study

I just want to point out this puts a LOT of faith in the FDA.

It's not like we don't know there's a history of failure here...

FDA Lets Drugs Approved on Fraudulent Research Stay on the Market

https://archive.is/2024.05.15-031733/https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fda-let-drugs-approved-on-fraudulent-research-stay-on-market/

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