I hope that "Go back to Reddit" doesn't become a recurring jab used against others in the fediverse
Noticing some people levying that against people bringing up complaints about their experience here. It's not the spirit which I hope will prevail. Also, lazy cop out in a discussion.
I think kbinners are doing a good job with having a good reputation in the fediverse. But ex-redditors as a whole both on here and Lemmy are the new kids on the block. It's important to keep that in mind. We arent redditors we're kbinners now :)
Yeah, kbeans just makes me chuckle every time I hear it. I'm actually pretty ambivalent about what name is used and maybe in the spirit of federation we end up with a handful of names
I dunno, i like kbiner so long as it isn't pronounced binner, more like carbiner. I'd rather be a rifleman, than a bin diver, lol. As for kbinauts, makes us sound spaced-out crazy, as in twirl your index finger in a circular motion around your temple type. I'm on the fence about it.
I'm one of those new kids and I'm still struggling to wrap my head around a lot of things. Like I understand the concept of federation, but I can't figure out how to use the tools (if they exist) for distinguishing between local and federated stuff. What makes federated threads show up here on kbin? Are there any that don't? I guess I'm just unclear on the execution in practice.
so you can tell where something is coming from by checking the full @/name. you can see this in the sidebar for magazines, or hovering over someone's name to see for the users. there's userscripts to show it automatically and I think it's planned to have an official option to do so.
What makes federated threads show up here on kbin?
By default, we can access every other federated instance. However, it might not show up if someone isn't subscribed to the person or magazine. Threads for magazines should be 100% in sync across instances (though sometimes things are a bit finnicky due to the influx of users).
Are there any that don't?
Content from other instances won't show up here if:
it's not part of what the collective kbinauts have subscribed to (if we subscribe to another instance's magazine, it pulls in that content for everyone here.)
if another instance decides to block or "defederate" with us. as of now I think every instance is federating with kbin.social so this shouldn't be an issue.
if you mark that you don't wish to see federated content. this will only show you stuff from kbin.social.
Not sure if I'll do a good job of answering this, but there are a few ways to discern between local and federated content. First, by how you filter content. e.g. by All or what you've Subscribed to.
Secondly, in two parts:
Next to the title it says where the link first came from, originally. That might be kbin.social, lemmy.world or it might youtube.com. In the latter one, each post in a thread also says who posted it with "[username], 3 hours ago to [thread]" That [thread] indicates the origin in the fideverse of that post. So if someone first posted that youtube link on lemmy.ml and then it was brought over here, that's where you'd find that out.
Note that you might have to hover over it to fully where it came from (that's the case on my desktop). For example, right now I see some post marked "[Username], 1 hour ago to Technology." Hovering over "Technology" reveals that it was @technology meaning that's where it came from.
On sh.itjust.works, there's a way to only see content from that instance. Not sure rn how to replicate that for kbin.social.
What makes federated threads show up here: because you've subscribed to it; because you are viewing m/all, and someone else posted it there. btw, if you want to post something from elsewhere here, you simply copy paste the federated link for it. You'll notice on a kbin article/post, when you click "more" there's the option of either a local link or a fediverse link. Other instances will have that option, which is what you'd want to copy.
Bringing in a url from elsewhere in the fediverse, btw, becomes one way to then be able to subscribe to it here (iirc).
There's a lot of good guidance for understanding kbin and the fediverse. It's just a little scattered everywhere in the many discussions that have been had. Don't be afraid to keep asking for clarifications. Plenty of us are trying to pay forward the help that we've received.
I am very excited by what Kbin is doing and is becoming. That being said ever since they opened up Lemmy and the rest of fediverse I have started to see more and more hate speech to minorities. I had hoped that those kinds of people would have stayed on Reddit but it looks like they ended up on Lemmy and now Kbin users are having to deal with it since opening up it's gate. I am not saying Kbin should separate from the other fediverse I just think they should make it more obvious where content and post are coming from.
I have to say that I haven't experienced any hate speech here. as for "where content and posts are coming from" there's already two userscripts to do just that, and the admin/dev said that it's planned to be officially added.
That is were we as a community on lemmy and kbin need to do our part to report users that are bringing that kind of content. Most instances don't want that kind of content and flagging users will help clean that content up. So people will start to move to instances that will allow it and those can be de-federated. I wouldn't write the platform off as a whole because of a few bad actors, but with the massive influx of new users and the lack of mod tools its going to take awhile. Unfortunately the nature of the fediverse is that it'll be like a game of whack-a-mole for awhile.
I don't feel I've done either of those things. Right now there is a great deal of meta dialogue about the transitions and changes occurring, particularly in relation to migration from Reddit. This post was a contribution to that, and in lock step with other convos that I've encountered here.
"Lazy cop out" is a good way to put it. I'm not saying I've never used similar constructions (on Reddit, mostly, ironically), but it's not exactly conducive to either civil discourse or growing a platform.
I’ve found the interface at kbin the best of the Lenny sites I’ve tried but there’s still things about it that really frustrate me. Things that, admittedly, I liked about Reddit. But if this places becomes some weird “old hands vs newcomers” site then yeah, I’ll go back to Reddit. Which would be sad.
There are a lot of people exploring Lemmy and kbin right now who aren't being intrinsically motivates to seek something different. They're looking for a parity, 1-tog1, drop-in replacement for Reddit because the stuff they liked interacting with on Reddit disappeared for a few days.
They're not here to play in a new possibility space, they're here because they want Reddit, and Reddit is not acting like Reddit anymore.
But this isn't Reddit. This is a totally different space that... Kinda looks like Reddit, but not really?
And it certainly doesn't work like Reddit.
One of the things we saw with the Twitter migration was a bunch of people insisting everyone make the Fediverse work exactly like Twitter, even though there are both social and technical reasons why that is never going to happen. Those people didn't want to engage with those reasons, they just thought "it worked this way over there, it needs to work that way here!"
And I don't know what to say to that person, other than "It sounds like you already have what you want. Over there. Have fun!"
The people you're (justifiably) worried about aren't leaving Reddit because of the blackouts. The Reddit experience and content haven't disappeared- all you have to do is switch to subs that didn't go dark and post/consume content there instead. Eventually the protesting subs will be reopened under more subservient mods and everything will go back to "normal".
People (like me) who are exploring entirely new communities right now are the ideologically motivated ones who don't like what Reddit leadership is doing and want to find a new place without that kind of toxicity. Based on my very limited experience so far, that seems like the kind of person who would fit in here.
The motivations were pretty similar for people exploring Twitter alternatives, too. They didn't like Elon, didn't want to be associated with him, and branched out.
Then he started breaking shit, and more people branched out. Indeed, every bit of Elon cringe that came out for 3 months was accompanied by a wave of Twitter users hitting Mastodon servers for the first time.
The real difference, I think, is that Reddit users -- and especially Reddit users who are going to be most impacted by the API circus -- are used to a higher level of technical complexity than Twitter users. People aren't necessarily groking the complexity here yet, but they're open to it being complex, to rolling with the punches, and to just... playing with it.
Enough of us are, at least.
A lot of the Twitter users just showed up and basically kept asking "Why isn't this Twitter?"
There were other issues, too, of course. Sociological issues. Mastodon had a relatively large established population, and that population was... I guess the word I'd use is "wounded". And they'd established a culture and social norms that weren't compatible with Twitter users. So, when Twitter users started showing up, they started trying to impose those norms in a way that was both confrontational and also just laughably ineffective.
The 400 or so tankies stirring up shit on Lemmygrad were never going to be an issue for Redditors, though. They weren't when they were on Reddit, and they won't be now, either.
Absolutely. Attacking users solely based on their negative experience with Fediverse is totally inappropriate and doing so makes the local user base seem elitist and hostile towards newcomers. If someone is being disrespectful, it's their behaviour that should be addressed, not the fact that they came here from Reddit or any other platform.
Idk what they do, but I have noticed a influx of toxicity on reddit during the last months, and after the blackout its skyrocketing, i don't want these people to scare away actually participates with their behavior.
I was making a joke because your instance got blocked by beehaw for literally the thing you're talking about. I thought it was kinda funny so I made the quip.
Yeah it kinda is, but i understand that, this instance doesn't manually approve as far as im aware, so it grows fast and within the numbers there is at least 1 toxic person per 100 people.
I seem to recall, "Go back to Digg" being a thing, after the V4 exodus. The fact is that, no matter what you do, humans are going to be human. We can encourage people not to be like that, to be patient and helpful, and it will help, but... kbin is kind of in the middle of a septembering, and there's really no way to tell how it's all going to shake out (although as part of the group whooshing in I hope to be a good contributor in both content and attitude).
Totally agree that it will happen. My hope is that if we dialogue about it, the community can at least establish where it stands on it. We're all part of creating community norms, hopefully
The sort of sneering at newbies is exactly the sort of shit that in no small part gave Mastodon a reputation of being hostile to outsiders.
If we want this shit to take off as something other than a nerd curio, it needs to be accessible, not delivered with a side helping of judgment for not being 100% on board with the endeavour from the beginning.
Yeah, there was definitely a lot of, "If you don't like it, go back to the bird site" around the time I first signed up to Mastodon. It seems to have fallen off a lot now. It presumably will here too. Even if something has only been around a short while, a culture gets established. There's bound to be some friction when a bunch of new people show up, and some of it will be unpleasant on both sides. Hopefully, things will reach a new equilibrium soon and it's one we can all live with.
There's been some amount of whining going on that deserves to be called out. But constructive criticism should always be welcome. Some amount of redundancy, i.e. multiple people complaining about the same things, is unavoidable.
Absolutely. In my experience, there's a really strong tendency from people who are already all-in on fedi to treat "this thing doesn't have feature X that my previous site Y did" as simple whining and respond to it with hostility rather than constructive criticism, you can see that with the thin-skinned reaction to some criticisms of Mastodon back in November about e.g. lack of quote posts or poor discovery features.
They don't treat it as constructive criticism or actual feedback from users but instead as an assault on something they identify with personally, which is a recipe for disaster
@Bloonface One of the reasons why I like Kbin quite a bit. People tend to start identifying with the community and the software, and tend to take criticisms personal. Kbin does not have that history, and thus criticisms are less impactful.
It also explains why Mastodon has a serious pushback against search on masto servers like universeodon, but not against search on every other software such as *key
I think kbinauts just do things differently than the mastodon crowd as well. It's been just a few days and yet we've already gotten 3 userscripts to modify how kbin works, with some of those features added into the main development roadmap. I can't imagine that happening with mastodon.
Could you, by chance, please give some links to those userscripts?
Unfortunately, it seems kbin search is broken ATM (returns a 500) and google seems to only index magazines, not individual threads, so it's a bit hard to search for them
People just generally become very defensive when it comes to stuff like this. Instead of being happy other people are trying to engage with it, that they are excited about the potential and how it's gonna grow in the coming months or years, they fear the change. It's completely human nature but also something that requires active effort to recognize and get over. I too am looking forward to what happens with fediverse, but I think its apparent to anyone that it's still in a very young phase and requires a lot of work to get it to a more usable state - the recent situation with beehaw, federation options and moderation tools is a great example of stuff we're still missing and need to improve on.
It's interesting to witness that anxiety happen. It'd be cool if people learned to just enjoy the chaos of newness - especially since none of this is life or death, after all. We're not having issues planting our crops for the year or something!
I sort of tie all this to issues of distress intolerance. Challenges with self-regulation that are larger than the hiccups of an online platform. I totally get the frustration of something not working. But then there's what you do with frustration, right? Managing it. And, even, learning to transmute it into excitement and fascination at the new. The latter is what I see a lot Binners* doing and it's a large part of what I'm enjoying here.
* Hey, I like Kbinauts, but I gotta plug my own nomenclature pref while I can
Oh absolutely, people get way too invested in this stuff. I was on reddit for 10 years and if it went offline tomorrow it'd be an inconvenience but life goes on. I'm going to lose even less sleep over kbin or lemmy, if I stop enjoying it I will just leave and try to find some other chill community to engage with. Something always pops up eventually, but at least try to make the best of it while you're here, yaknow, it's exciting times.
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