Haier, the air conditioner maker, takes down open source third-party Home Assistant integration

Thankfully I don’t use any of their products, but this really pisses me off. They claim that this open source project “causes significant economic harm to their company”

This is ridiculous. It is truly ridiculous. How can something that enables the user to efficiently control their AC cause “significant economic harm”???

Consider forking the repository or mirroring it to another platform like GitLab, Codeberg or your self-hosted Git server, so the project can continue to exist and someone can maybe fork it and maintain it.

The effected repos are: github.com/Andre0512/hOn and github.com/Andre0512/pyhOn

If you don’t know about Home Assistant, check it out. It’s an amazing piece of open-source software, that you can run at home on your own server and use it to control your smart home devices. That way, you don’t need to connect them to the manufacturer’s (probably insecure) cloud. It gives you sovereignty over your smart home instead of some proprietary vendor-locked garbage. Check out their website and the Lemmy community: !homeassistant

I also highly recommend Louis Rossmann’s video about this: youtu.be/RcSnd3cyti0

He makes awesome videos in general, consider subscribing.

As Rossmann said, don’t ever buy anything from such a shitty company that doesn’t respect their customers. This move by Haier is nothing other than a slap in the face for everyone, who just wants to comfortably control the product they paid for. This company is actively hostile towards their paying customers. Fuck these bastards!

m3t00,
@m3t00@lemmy.world avatar

reminds me of the DMCA form letters. full of scary empty threats. paid legal dept. earning their keep. mgmt doesn’t realize the freely developed stuff makes their products more desirable when it does a better job than their own software. may they flounder in ignorance

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Hey, also, just btw, as an aside, apropos…

If you use “smart devices” in your home, you’re a fucking moron.

Dehydrated,

If you use “smart devices” cheap Chinese garbage that requires a 24/7 connection to some random insecure cloud server in your home, you’re a fucking moron. But there are some great solutions that run entirely locally and enable you to do some really cool home automation. Check out the !homeautomation community, as well as !homeassistant. Home Assistant is probably the best piece of software for building an actually smart home, that’s also sovereign and not reliant on an internet connection or some company and their infrastructure.

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I know, I should have worded myself less aggressively.

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

MY ECONOMIC HARM!

badbytes,

Boycott Haier

dual_sport_dork,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

You should do that anyway; they’re a bag of dicks. I have to deal with them at work.

Note also that Haier includes GE Appliances and their subsidiaries GE Profile, Cafe, and Hotpoint since Haier acquired the GE Appliances division in 2016. Fisher and Paykel is also owned by Haier now, too. So if you’re gotten the feeling that your GE appliances are crap now compared to the ones your parents had, it’s not just a feeling and you’re right: They’re crap now since Haier has been cutting corners all over the place to chase a dollar.

EmperorHenry,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

It would be even better if they just stopped putting microphones and cameras on thermostats and stopped making them with internet connectivity.

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Are you saying things were better before? Because I feel like things have never been better! I’m a CEO of a F500 company though.

Goodie,

This is ridiculous. It is truly ridiculous. How can something that enables the user to efficiently control their AC cause “significant economic harm”???

I assume they have their own app and run ads/user analytics through it that make them money.

I have to wonder if you bought their products on the basis that they worked with HA, if you could have some sort of claim here.

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Hell’s Angels? Because it feels like everything works with Hell’s Angels now.

Dehydrated,

No, thankfully I don’t use any of their products. But I find their statement ridiculous. If I buy something, it’s mine, I own it because I paid for it. The manufacturer can fuck off.

Goodie,

But they want you to use their app.

And they’ve decided if you have a HA plugin, you won’t.

So we do our research, and avoid scumbag companies when making purchasing decisions, or more likely, pick the lesser of a several evils.

Dehydrated,

So we do our research, and avoid scumbag companies when making purchasing decisions, or more likely, pick the lesser of a several evils.

That’s why I created this post. To inform people about Haier’s shitty and customer-hostile solely profit-oriented business practices.

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

If you dig just below the surface, you will find that the very philosophical concept of “ownership” comes with terms and conditions.

neidu2,

So, is the code in question using a publicly accessible API of theirs? If so it’d be a shame if something were to access that API more than anticipated…

v9CYKjLeia10dZpz88iU,

GitHub also has a legal defense fund for developers. GitHub lists it on their DMCA takedown page.

When GitHub processes a DMCA takedown under our circumvention technology claim review process, we will offer the repository owner a referral to receive independent legal consultation through GitHub’s Developer Defense Fund at no cost to them.

They created this fund after claims were made against a YouTube downloader from a third party. (not Google)

I don’t know if this would be an anti-circumvention claim, but it doesn’t sound like a bad idea to ask.

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Isn’t GitHub Microsoft owned now? Or am I missing something?

v9CYKjLeia10dZpz88iU,

It is owned by Microsoft.

Emerald,

I laughed when I saw “significant economic harm”

Dehydrated,

Because that statement is really ridiculous.

dangblingus,

I live in caveman times. I turn my lights on with a light switch, and I turn my AC on with the power button on the unit.

stockRot,

🆗🆒

Dehydrated,

If it works it works I guess.

Trainguyrom,

I can see where some automation would be really nice. I don’t want to remember to turn the heat down at night when I’m already covered in blankets and don’t need it as warm. I could use a automation to dim the lights when it gets late as another indicator that it’s time to head to bed

dual_sport_dork,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Nearly all window air conditioner units have a built in programmable timer that allows you to do just this, and if your system is central you can spend all of $20 on an electronic programmable thermostat that’s a plug-in replacement for your old one and doesn’t require being connected to the internet.

Just saying, this functionality already existed and worked just fine before everything had to be on the fucking “cloud.”

Trainguyrom,

I mean that’s where Home Assistant comes into play. Host it yourself or pay for a managed instance and you get the best of both worlds.

Also you can buy thermostats and air conditioners easily that use with micro controlers and don’t rely on any network. It’s not like TVs where you have to dig and largely don’t get that choice anymore

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

At this point I need a website that tracks companies BS and gives them a grade level. Just too effing many of them.

cadekat,

There’s foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/ for privacy, at least.

SendMePhotos,

Hmmm… Like the BBB but better? The better BBB? BBBB perhaps… Or B^4…

postmateDumbass,

BBB is run by businesses, for businesses.

Not a consumer protection agency.

Trainguyrom,

This was always the funniest thing when I worked product support. Folks would threaten to go to the BBB and we’d just mute to laugh

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

They didn’t just pit us against each other through populist politics, they also hired us to fight one another.

It’s pretty impressive in its darkness.

Trainguyrom,

Bruh, it’s screeching Karen’s wasting everyone’s time trying to get something for nothing when they’re already in the wrong. Let’s bring it back to the real world, here.

I always used what flexibility was available to me to try to do right for our customers, but we had a shocking amount of people literally trying to commit insurance fraud among other things.

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Listen, I get where you’re coming from don’t get me wrong, what I meant was, back in the 80’s, if you had a complaint, you had a number to an office, and the person answering was responsible for the content of the conversation, you know?

Now, as I see it, we’ve been kind of outsourced to take each others shit without having any real power. I don’t know maybe that’s trite, like obvious, you call a support center and get connected to India, know what I mean? They just offloaded their responsibility on the consumer, of which the employees most certainly are- we’re all just consumers in the end. My 5c, also, apologies for any gangster lingo, I’m fuck white, I’ve just been watching a LOT of YouTube videos.

anarchy79,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

What do you call supersized legos all painted black?

Big black blocks.

CosmicCleric, (edited )
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Hmmm… Like the BBB but better?

No, I mean like just a static page that lists every company and with a grade to the right of their names, and you click on a company name to drill down to comments about them and their grade. A quick lookup reference that someone can use before purchasing a product.

Basically like how they have websites for movies, but for companies instead.

The BBB doesn’t have such a thing AFAIK, it’s just a place for reporting companies at an individual complaint level.

svc,

“Know B^4 you buy”

Water1053,

BCFC - By Consumers for Consumers

BleatingZombie,

Just a quick reminder to anybody reading this:

The BBB is not a government institution. It is nothing but a for-profit company

TeoTwawki, (edited )
@TeoTwawki@lemmy.world avatar

Its almost a poorly made extortion racket: if you are a business that does not pay the bbb to get a good rating they rate you badly till you do. But either way they can’t actually do anything about shitty companies, its all the illusion of having recourse for the consumer when there is none.

victorz,

Badwill. Always a bad strategy. Join progress, don’t fight it.

kozonak,

are in violation of our terms and agreements

So what if you dont agree with their terms? What then? Cant you just host the repo and tell them to fuck off since you sisnt agree to anything?

nova_ad_vitum,

Did OP even agree to their terms?

phoneymouse,

Right… a violation of our TnC… doesn’t matter. Maybe for the customer, not the repo owner.

ShepherdPie,

Not to mention this is being used to control products purchased by individuals. Are they not allowed to use their AC after paying for it because they don’t agree to Haiers TOS?

nbafantest,

github.com/Andre0512/hon/issues/147#issuecomment-…

Looks like the owner isnt taking it down and will force them to take it down.

I’m curious what the legal reason is for this. They arent actually using any illegal IP right?

pearsaltchocolatebar,

They just don’t want to go through the hassle of securing their api, so they’re trying to strong arm the devs into dropping the project.

It would be laughably easy for them to kill this, but maybe their devs aren’t competent enough to do it.

gedaliyah,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

This seems like the answer. If there is no proprietary code and they did not actually reverse-engineer patented technology, I doubt they have a leg to stand on.

It costs nothing to threaten to sue, and it sometimes works.

tdawg,

afaik reverse engineering is generally legal so long as the person prosecuting you can’t prove you used insider knowledge

This is why things like game system emulators are generally fine

brianorca,

Reverse engineering is legal, but if you still arrive at a solution covered by a patent, then that solution is illegal. But this shouldn’t be covered by a patent.

tdawg,

That seems like it would be nearly impossible to prove with software. There are so many ways to structure solutions and most of them conform to an open standard

brianorca,

It’s an open source project repository. It can be compared to the process descriptions in the patent. But patents and copyright don’t cover APIs, as decided in Oracle vs Google in 2021.

I’m saying this usage of reverse engineering is probably safe, but if you reverse engineered a way to process data that happened to match a patent, it doesn’t matter that you never saw the patent or original code, it can still be infringement.

VonReposti,

Software patents isn’t a thing in Europe, so that doesn’t hold any weight for Haier. Even their terms are null and void as is the case of almost all “terms of service” documents in Europe.

brianorca,

That wouldn’t stop them from pursuing something in a US court if the other party is in the US. But even here, I doubt their argument would hold water in an actual trial, considering existing precedent.

stoly,

It would still require a lot of time and hundreds of thousands of dollars in lawyers.

pearsaltchocolatebar,

It wouldn’t require that much time or money to lock down the API. It’s not something they’d have to create from scratch.

Although I’m sure the entire platform is a mess of spaghetti code, so maybe it would be expensive to have someone untangle it enough to implement.

stoly,

APIs are, by nature, open. Anyone can use them. The business bros don’t like this fact and are using lawyers to express their distaste for people using their product as intended.

Seraphin,

Not to excuse this sort of behaviour, but at least they’re honest enough to say it’s about the money, instead of hiding behind excuses like “bUt sEcuRiTy vUlNeRaBiLiTieS”.

We need laws to prevent this kind of anti-consumer bullshit (yeah I know, a pipe dream) and for people to simply not give Haier their money, or data.

Dehydrated,

I don’t even think this is honest, I doubt that a small FOSS project is causing “significant economic damage” to a company of such size. It’s just user-hostility and the wish to control the users and the products they bought and paid for. Unfortunately, this is an increasing trend among companies.

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