What? Can we stop using this stupid as fuck term already? They’re just fucking fascists. Empowering religious institutions are a core of fascism and not some unique Christian thing
Unironic sheeple posting and calling Israel christofascist? You can’t expect to be taken seriously.
I like Umberto Eco’s 14 signs of ur fascism as a functional definition - what definition are you using? I ask because Eco’s certainly isn’t descriptive of the Biden administration.
Seems to me that we have 2 “christofasist” countries, and at best, one isn’t Christian, while the other isn’t fascist.
Seems to me that we have 2 “christofasist” countries, and at best, one isn’t Christian, while the other isn’t fascist.
The one is Zionist - which has always been a decidedly Christian idea - and the other is the most prolific sponsor of fascist terrorism in world history. Sooooo… take your pick.
The one is Zionist - which has always been a decidedly Christian idea
The idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine is a distinctly Jewish idea, which has been adopted by specifically evangelical Christians. An alignment of values or similarities doesn’t make them the same thing. You’re not a Nazi because you and Hitler drank water, Jews aren’t Christian because they’re Zionist, and Israel definitionally can’t be christofasist because it’s not Christian.
the other is the most prolific sponsor of fascist terrorism in world history.
You’re using the term fascism in contradiction to the definition I’ve provided without putting forward an alternative - this is nonsense. Sponsoring fascism also isn’t indicative of a nation being fascist anymore than propping up Saudi Arabia and Israel makes the US Sunni or Jewish. What definition of fascism are you using that’s descriptive of the Biden administration - it’s certainly not Umberto Eco’s definition.
The idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine is a distinctly Jewish idea
I hate to be the one to break it to you, genius - Zionism is an invention of antisemitic Christians. We have dates, you know - Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism by at least two decades.
You’re using the term fascism
Which part of…
the other is the most prolific sponsor of fascist terrorism in world history.
Not at all - you’ve dumbed things down far enough that your response is little more than nuh-uh. When I’ve called out why your points are dumb and obviously wrong, you’ve just insisted you’re right rather than giving any kind of argument or evidence.
Zionism is an invention of antisemitic Christians. We have dates, you know - Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism by at least two decades.
Citations needed
Judaism draws its name from the kingdom of Judea, the capital of which was Jerusalem - in the iron age. The Torah says that Israel is a God-given inheritance of the children of Israel (the Jewish people), Sabbatai Zevi tried to settle the Jews in Gaza in the 17th century, and white the modern Zionist movement was certainly in no small part a response to antisemitism, I think you’re going to need to show how it was a Christian invention.
Which part of… the other is the most prolific sponsor of fascist terrorism in world history…are you having trouble comprehending?
The bit where the US meets the definition of fascism - I’ve already explained in terms an idiot can comprehend that sponsoring fascism doesn’t make you fascist any more than sponsoring Israel makes you Jewish.
So again, you’re insisting Israel is christofascist and that the US is christofascist. Both are laughable.
Your sad attempts to substirute alt-history for the real thing doesn’t qualify as “calling out,” genius.
Citations needed
It’s mundane history. It’s so damn mundane you can find it on wikipedia. The early role Christian Zionism played in shaping the homocidal nationalist aspect of Zionism is pretty mundane, too.
Here’s a choice quote for you:
Contemporary Israeli historian Anita Shapira suggests that England’s Zionist evangelical Christians “passed this notion on to Jewish circles” around the 1840s, while Jewish nationalism in the early 19th century was largely met with hostility from British Jews.
Gee… I wonder why Jewish people in Britain was hostile to the idea of antisemitism forcing them from their actual homeland for some antisemitic and colonialist fairy tale in the middle-east, eh?
Sabbatai Zevi tried to settle the Jews in Gaza
Jewish people moving to Palestine isn’t Zionist on it’s own, Clyde - I guess the fact that Jewish people have been present in the middle-east since forever is also (somehow) proof that Zionism is a Jewish idea, eh?
The bit where the US meets the definition of fascism
So, again - which part of…
the other is the most prolific sponsor of fascist terrorism in world history.
I guess the fact that Jewish people have been present in the middle-east since forever is also (somehow) proof that Zionism is a Jewish idea, eh?
No - it’d be the bit where their millennia old religious texts call for a return to the area.
So, again - which part of… the other is the most prolific sponsor of fascist terrorism in world history …are you having trouble comprehending?
I genuinely can’t explain this in simpler terms for you. The definition of fascism you’re using that describes this as fascism. I assume you don’t call the US Islamist, yet they sponsor Saudi Arabia - what’s the difference?
You know what - you’re right - Israel is Christian, the US is fascist despite not meeting the definition, and you’re the resident special smart boy - have a gold star ⭐
I mean Israel’s main allies in the US are christofascists because of their stupid doomsday cult prophecy that for some reason nobody ever feels like calling them out on
Hmmm I think, but you want to hear a plot twist. Although post COVID there may be many moving more towards a collective thinking there is also the issue of group narcissism.
That anyone who is against the current group-think that we believe promotes social harmony, or promotes an agenda or idea that can be misinterpreted as anti social, or dangerous to the “harmonious” function of society can also apparently be considered a fascist or communist. Let’s not fall into that trap
I’m of the opposite opinion. General use of highly specific terms just make y’all look like twats to less-involved people. Then there’s the fact that highly specific names often get treated like an attack on BOTH groups by people with crap critical thinking skills.
Remember that KISS still applies to political discussion and is a good rule. Even idiots and the poorly educated are entitled to a vote so it’s better to keep things closer to the common denominator.
Well… zionism is a Christian thing, first and foremost - it’s an idea that originated amongst British Christian movements in the 1840s. Like all right-wing ideology, it pretends to be far older than it actually is.
The embargo is old-school US punishment. It fucks over their ability to do business in the US, which means no banking, data centers, and much more. This is incredibly inconvenient for Cuba but hasn’t meant as much as other LA countries have developed.
This is, of course, initially in response to the Cuban govt nationalizing the primarily US-owned oil industry.
TLDR: Cuban Americans who fled Cuba tend to support sanctions on the government they fled. And no other group really is fighting to remove the embargo.
Florida was a swing state, Florida is full of Cubans who hate the Cuban government, Cuba is run by dirty socialists anyways, also they almost blew us up that one time that the boomers are probably all still traumatized from.
That last one isn’t a joke, THE SOVIETS were the ones who had to put a stop to Castro calling the launch, and him making them do that is why basically no world government has since cared enough about Cuba to do more about it than calling one of these votes the US will ignore anyways for reasons cited above. Similar to how nobody gave two shits when Iran’s embassy in Afghanistan was the target of a terrorist attack well before the US deployed.
But yeah, the funny part is that DeSantis might have actually saved Cuban American relations by driving Florida so far to the right it banned Democrats from wasting time on any strategic thinking on how to appease the Cubans in Florida. One of those lesser “once the boomers die” possibilities with the upcoming super progressive generation in the party.
The embargo acts as an example to everyone else not to fuck with USA oil. Because if you do, they’ll be super petty and make you miserable until the end of time.
I would argue that Carter was, he was even pro solar energy back during his presidency. He got screwed by the whiplash from previous administrations economic policy and got all the blame, so that really framed his time in office. It’s only recently that people have really started looking at his tenure differently.
Ahhh, but you see, Cuba is attacking the US with it’s dangerous ideas - such as, for instance, the idea that you could not treat healthcare simply as a glorified scam to enrich billionaire parasites and nothing else.
That is far, far worse than people flying airplanes full of people into buildings full of people.
This is what baffles me. Knowing what we know, how tf are they still considered an ally or friendly? Even recently with their manipulation of oil prices with Russia.
Because until we have energy independence (sometimes called green energy), they’re the devil we’re in bed with … Which is yet another reason to get away from oil
Riiiiight… and the US military was merely “defending” 'Murica when they dropped more ordnance on Vietnam and Laos than they dropped during the entire span of WW2.
No benefit at all, but I doubt the U.S. will be discussing much with Cuba unless they agreed to get rid of the Chinese base that was built there. Id rather it be lifted but it’ll be staying for awhile.
Well, you see, the “good” part is that your opinion doesn’t matter to the US government, if it makes you feel any better. Most Americans don’t support many things, yet they still have to live with the decisions of a small elitist group that have hijacked power.
And instead of banding together and doing something about those evil motherfuckers, you all meekly submit to other rotting flesh bags who have no more right to rule over you than a sack of potatoes does.
The electoral college elects the president. We just vote on which side gets to send it's people there. Don't know a single name of one of these voters and they can and do vote against the will of the people. It's a partial democracy at best and really needs to change to popular vote already.
Last time I checked nobody in the US got an option to vote for “let’s not be an psychotic, thoroughly evil mass-murdering neocolonialist monstrosity that threatens the entire planet with nukes.”
I’m so tired of seeing thread #35738272 of Lemmy not understanding how a liberal democracy works. ‘WHY ARE WE NOT VOTING OUT THE OBVIOUS FASCISTS AND VOTING IN THE SOCIALIST UTOPIA RIGHT NOW, CLEARLY DEMOCRACY IS BROKEN’
Or does it perhaps mean “engage in a rigged spectacle every four years where the majority of people get to choose between two overmoneyed bureaucrats whose allegiance to the status quo has been vetted by corporate interests?”
“Liberal democracy” is no more democratic than “social darwinism” is socialist - or Darwinist.
Yeah but western elections aren’t rigged are they. You get a lot of choice. The two final candidates are just one part of that in the US system. Elsewhere there is much more variety, but the people tend to vote for safe, mainstream moderate candidates (with notable far right exceptions), which is why they consistently govern Europe and North America. Sadly, the world isn’t just confused populist leftists. Everyone does actually just want what they’ve all voted for.
but the people tend to vote for safe, mainstream moderate candidates
Really? Is that so? It has nothing to do with the fact that it’s the wealthy that prefers funding these (supposedly) “safe, mainstream moderate candidates” that won’t upset the status quo that benefits said wealthy at the expense of everyone and everything else?
No, not really. Funding is no guarantee of political success, some of the most expensive campaigns in US history have been failures. People don’t want the status quo upset, that’s why it’s the status quo. People are continually voting for it.
some of the most expensive campaigns in US history
And what got them into the utterly privileged position of running those expensive campaigns in the first place, hmmm?
People don’t want the status quo upset,
No, be honest… you don’t want the status quo upset - which is why you are pretending “liberal democracy” can actually be called democratic with a straight face.
People are continually voting for it.
People are continuing to vote for the narrow set of political options they are allowed to vote for - that is it.
If there was any impetus for change like you want, Bernie Sanders wouldn’t have been beaten in a primary. You can believe it’s all rigged, but then to be honest you shouldn’t be complaining on lemmy, you should be doing a left wing Jan 6. I’m not American, I have paid leave, social benefits, free healthcare, bicycle lanes, so I don’t really care what your status quo is, but you guys are just amazing at voting against your own self interests.
Bernie Sanders wouldn’t have been beaten in a primary.
The “marketplace of ideas” bullcrap has been thoroughly debunked, liberal.
you should be doing a left wing Jan 6
Your suggestion is for leftists to do a white supremacist lynch mob? What else should the left do, “enlightened centrist?” A leftist “version” of the Holocaust, maybe?
so I don’t really care what your status quo is
I don’t live in the Global North - I live in the extraction zone… you know, those places that your status quo couldn’t exist without?
at voting against your own self interests.
So I’m going to assume that the resurgence of overt fascist ideology in Europe is merely Europeans “acting in their own self-interest”? I guess it’s just the same ole’ Europe then, eh?
That would almost certainly be a better method than superdelegates and corporations/lobbyists/PACs influencing the election. The election is a year out and we already know with certainty who our two choices will be, and at least one of them would never be an option for most people.
Please explain. Seems to me like democracy is people having a roughly equal say in what the government does. (If it’s a representative democracy, then though electing officials who will do so)
So… despite you living in a (supposedly) “democratic” society, your actual day-to-day life is governed by that which is decidedly anti-democratic, correct?
No my day to day life is literally governed by the government.
What would you call a democracy? Who should be citizens of a company? Right now, publicly owned companies do reflect the desires of their ‘citizens,’ the shareholders. Does that count as democratic for you?
So that means all the employees are citizens of the company? Only current employees? What about contractors? An equal say, or proportional to their experience or skill? And does every decision need to be made in that manner?
Sure. But we’re talking about an embargo. Everyone has the right to use embargoes, and they’re a time-honored method of non-violent opposition. Framing this as the US transgressing some boundary is hyperbole at best.
What is the point of this embargo? What is it trying to accomplish? What is worse about the Cuban government, than all the other countries the US doesn’t embargo?
Can you not be violent in self defense? Embargoes and sanctions can also be seen as a form of violence if they cause deaths. If you prevent essential goods like food or medicine from reaching those in need, and people die as a result-- is that better than bombing or shooting them?
Cuba is an island in the Caribbean. I’ve been to most of them, and there is a common problem of not having an economic and industrial base. No matter how you cut it,they don’t have the resources to become viable countries, but they nonetheless try. All you have to do is to search the internet for the knowledge you’re lacking.
And? Is the US a country who cannot choose who they do business with? Do we now owe them damages? Can they not trade with our trade partners Mexico and Canada? Yes, they can.
It’s the same policy. People have a problem if it fails. People have a problem with it if succeeds, but not enough to change how Cuba treats its people.
All nations should just start trading with cuba and sanction the US instead. They commit way more war crimes and crimes against humanity than cuba ever could
Obama did a lot to normalize relationships, attempt to shift internal optics about the current Cuban government, now that Fidel is dead, and pave a way for a diplomatic and politically reasonable end to the embargo. But then the Cheeto came into power.
I looked it up it seems like Cuban Americans tend to support the embargo, as a means of combating the Cuban government. Lots of Cuban Americans were forced to flee Cuba do to how the government were treating them under Castro. So the embargo was meant to act as a means of changing Cuba’s government.
These Cuban Americans make up a significant amount of Floridians, a state who is very important during presidential campaigns. So candidates tend to want to appease them. It sounds like in recent year there’s increasingly Cuban American support for lifting the embargo though.
TLDR: Cuban Americans who fled the Cuban government don’t like the Cuban government very much & they vote.
There are major profits being made to keep the embargo in place. Also if the embargo is lifted they won’t be able to gain citizenship so easily. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. I believe Cuba is the only country where citizens can flee and obtain US citizenship including Social Security and every other benefit.
I guess all we need to do is inform Republican voters of this fact and instantly their position on the embargo will change.
I count on their racism and hatred of the “other” way more than their hatred for an economic/governmental system they don’t even understand. I’d imagine the typical voter would say “fuck that, I’m not paying for their social security, they can rot in the communist hellhole they created for themselves!”
They can get an expedited permanent residence (green card) after being here for one year I believe. Things were always dodgy. The wet foot, dry foot rules may have been ended though. That was a non official term for a policy created by Clinton. If your feet are on dry land, you can stay, if your feet are in a boat/raft/etc you were sent back to Cuba. There was a year where tens of thousands of Cubans that were trying to float across to florida. Rigging old cars up to makshift rafts in an effort to flee Cuba and make it to the U.S. That is where the slur “raft drifter” came about for Cubans I believe. Obama changed something to try to discourage that practice, traveling 100+ miles (160+ KM) in open water with makeshift transports Im sure was the end for to many lives. It’s horrible what people do to each other. The shit they had to go through to feel that was the necessary risk to better their families lives. Then the voyage, and then being treated like shit anyways if they got here.
Being nice to Cuba would cost a shitload of Cuban votes in Florida. Florida was, and is still close to, a swing state.
What candidate is going to a) risk losing Florida’s 30 Electoral College votes and b) get called a socialist, and for what gain? It sucks, but here we are.
The US will do everything in its power to dismantle socialism and convince people that it “doesn’t work” (just ignore how much work they put in to dismantle it)
It’s actually quite common. Most votes have 3 digits voting for and single digit against. A few only have 1 vote against. The thing distinct about this vote is that it usually has the highest “turnout” with only a few abstaining/non-voting countries. They’ve done this same vote almost every year for decades so it’s become a tradition.
That one, and a bunch of other “common sense measures,” was/were because of internal US laws. I don’t agree with it, but the delegate has/had their hands tied because of our laws regarding the sovereignty of the US. Israel was just voting whatever way the US does, cause, again, their hands are tied politically.
Those votes are unfortunately not surprising considering both countries’ complicity in depriving millions of innocent people of food for the past 3 weeks
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