(Read before Comment) Why you don't like GIMP UI?

For what i heard, a lot of people on the Linux community use Krita for image manipulation, even though, it’s intended for digital painting, and GIMP is the one intended for image manipulation, because people don’t like the GIMP’s UI.

My issue is, i never understood why they don’t like the GIMP’s UI, since i never have issues with it,(Although it’s probably because i’m used to the UI) so i need to adress this problem and ask you What does the GIMP UI has that you don’t like or hate so much and why you like Krita’s UI over GIMP’s?

Before you event comment your answer i need to ask you to do the following:

  1. Address each specific issue along with an concise and direct explanation of why you don’t like it
  2. Answers such as “I just don’t like it”, “I don’t like where it’s placed” or anything alike doesn’t count as “Concise and Direct”, we are adults, not 4 year old children.
  3. If you can provide a suggestion of how GIMP’s UI can be improved, it would help a lot, and maybe this issue can be solved.
  4. If someone else commented something you were about to comment, upvote them, this way we can address the most common issues effectively.
  5. I need you to watch the screenshots of both UI’s, because something that most people don’t know, it’s how similar Krita and GIMP’s UIs are.

Krita’s UI https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/60b262a6-7c9c-44f3-8c9b-86200b544f45.png

GIMP’s UI https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5c01ee4e-2a3c-485d-891b-36a4edd66d62.png

(Credits to a friend of mine for lettig me use the screenshots.)

My ideas on how GIMP can improve it’s UI

  1. Adding the option of the new UI selected by default, but with the possibility to switch to the new UI.
  2. Possibly addding “work spaces” like Krita would help too, along with the possibility of exporting and importing them, this way people can have custom arrangements of the UI according to the kind of work they will do.

Thanks for reading and hopefully we can address this issue effectively.

potentiallynotfelix,

I like it

FatLegTed,
@FatLegTed@piefed.social avatar

Because the name begins with GIMP.

RayOfSunlight,

That’s not valid, personally i understand what it means to you since i made a small research because the auto Subtitles in Youtube do not show “GIMP”, however, i need you to understand that GIMO stands for Gnu Image Manipulation Program.

And no, Glimpse is an abandoned project.

FatLegTed,
@FatLegTed@piefed.social avatar

I know what GIMP stands for. I've been using it since it came out. If you're going to be pedantic at least spell it correctly and not GIMO.

I have no idea what Glimpse is.

Goodbye

RayOfSunlight,

That was a typo i didn’t saw

Coskii,
@Coskii@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Every time I install gimp in an attempt to switch over, I find myself frustrated that the tools I commonly use on other programs are not either available by default or unintuitive enough that 20 minutes of looking through tools, tabs, and menus has not provided the results I went looking for.

I try every few years, or every major update, whichever happens first.

RayOfSunlight,

There are settings you can change to make the UI better for you, there’s even a tutorial made by Davis Media Design that teaches how to make GIMP look like Photoshop CC 2020, alternatively, you can install the PhotoGIMP addon.

Coskii,
@Coskii@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

This topic actually prompted me to google the answer to the one thing I had been looking for only to find that the answer is completely obtuse and kind of misleading, which is why I wasn’t able to find it on my own.

Mustard,

I remember when i first started using GIMP the thing that threw me the most was that there was no ‘safe default’ state that you could get to by pressing escape, like ‘select’ is for other programs.

If you think this is a small thing consider that escape/back is one of the only 3 default controls on phone UIs. It’s super important and Gimp doesn’t have it.

gandalf_der_12te,

GIMP feels non-intuitive sometimes.

For example, layers.

I expect that GIMP internally has a list of all objects that I added to the file. Like, text, brush drawings, pasted images. Instead, I cannot find that list anywhere.

twei,

That list is either the undo-menu or the layers themselves, as everything you do in GIMP is somewhat destructive. This behavior will be changed in GIMP 3 tho.

gandalf_der_12te,

Yeah, good to know. today I learned …

merthyr1831,

Because updating dependencies after a long time breaks most of that code anyway, so you have to do a lot of work just to get things working exactly how they were before, only now your code probably has a bunch more bugs that you now have to fix, and it’s still not utilising enhanced features that updated dependencies may offer.

Rewriting can take more time, but if your alternative is to slowly upgrade code originally written in the nineties, you’re actually saving time by using your experience to rewrite something.

RayOfSunlight,

How about installing Flatpak instead of .deb packages?

Flatpak has all the dependencies self-contained within the program, so it should work a lot better

merthyr1831,

That’s different to how dependencies are managed when developing an application. When they’re updating GIMP and updating it from GTK3 to GTK4, they have to upgrade a bunch of old code that was meticulously fixed to work with GTK3, and things may be changed, broken, or missing entirely. That’s the kind of work you need to do when upgrading an app versus writing a new one from scratch :)

merthyr1831,

UI is dated, for one.

range inputs can’t be scrolled, dragged around the screen, and are absurdly small on high DPI screens.

There’s a load of UX issues, such as how pasting content will create a new layer that is for some reason more limited than a typical layer.

Feature discoverability is poor. Most features are buried in years-old dropdown tabs that aren’t kept up to date with UI/UX expectations.

Some features are incredibly obtuse in how they explain themselves: selecting a brush dynamic selects stuff from a massive scrolling list with nothing but a title to explain what they do.

UI is inconsistent. Some elements are clearly older than others even after ““recent”” (years-old) updates.

There’s way more, btw. But honestly if this years-long push to get GIMP to GTK 3 has told me anything, it’s that the project should’ve canned the update years ago and written an entirely new app from scratch, dropping the technical debt, the archaic choice of language and UI toolkit, and they still would’ve come out with a new version faster than they have now.

Hadriscus,

How would writing an entire program be faster than upgrading an already fully functioning one ? I don’t see the logic ?

Grass,

Probably in a similar way to how USA and Canada are stuck with a two party government system and any attempts to remedy that haven’t been working out, but maybe if the country collapses under its own stupidity and the ultra wealthy run off with all the resources then the remaining people can struggle to survive with nothing left and die then… Oh wait…

merthyr1831,

Because the underlying dependencies of GIMP changed a lot, especially between GTK2 and GTK3. It pulls resources from writing code to figuring out how to migrate code to a new version, usually as changes in the toolkit mean you may have to rewrite stuff anyway, which can mean more bugs or regressions in functionality which must be addressed.

Writing from scratch, you can write code that immediately fulfills the spec you’re working to (They could’ve even skipped straight to GTK4!) and used the old code as a reference of what’s needed for users whilst throwing out anything and everything else that isn’t strictly necessary.

It allows you to throw out old features and code that you had to work with in the past, but may not actually be used by anyone. If it WAS needed, it can be added later.

Most importantly, there’s little to no expectation that the new app will supersede the old one immediately, whereas during a toolkit migration you need to keep everything working for every release you do.

It’s like how building a new house can be faster than renovating an old historically-protected building to the same regulatory standard. There’s red tape, you have to work around old masonry and brickwork, you have to avoid damaging the building and keep its appearance the same. A new house may be different in looks and miss the old charm or familiarity, but it’ll be built faster, cheaper, and for the same price have more features to the old building.

Hadriscus,

I see ! couldn’t development be done in a separate branch with no expectation of an immediate release ?

HatchetHaro,
@HatchetHaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I’m just looking through this entire thread, and call me crazy, OP, but you seem angry not more people are using GIMP. You’re quite aggressive about it, attempting to shut down legitimate UI and UX concerns at every corner, and it is genuinely fatiguing to see.

RayOfSunlight,

Just saying, using Krita for Image Manipulation it’s like using a Driller to cut wood, that’s the wrong tool for the job.

HatchetHaro,
@HatchetHaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

If it works for them, then it’s not the wrong tool for the job.

RayOfSunlight,

No, that’s like cutting wood with a kitchen knife

HatchetHaro,
@HatchetHaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

In your opinion, sure.

RayOfSunlight,

Bruh, Even the Krita devs themselves say that Krita is made for Digital Painting

HatchetHaro,
@HatchetHaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I don’t care.

mindbleach,

To pick one example: Shift + Middle-click used to be free zoom, but is now rotation. This is not just frustrating - it’s nauseating. I have a very strong stomach. I don’t get seasick, I don’t get VR-sick, I don’t get regular sick. The last time I threw up involved food poisoning on another continent. But god damn, is it unpleasant having your whole perspective spin while trying to get a little closer to an image.

I asked one of the GIMP devs about this on reddit and was told it was impossible to make optional. Got some genuine ass-ache for pushing against the idea that anything was impossible, in software, especially when the desired functionality could just be… not. A checkbox would suffice instead of arbitrary reconfiguration. I’d be okay with the mess of arbitrary changes since GIMP 1.6 or whatever I’d been rocking, if one of the central adjustments hadn’t been reconfigured to make me physically ill.

xenspidey,

I think it’s all about use case. I’m not 100% sure but the way I use GIMP probably wouldn’t work in Krita. I use GIMP mainly for removing backgrounds so they are transparent, as well as converting raster images to paths so I can make dxf’s of them. This is very easy and fast in GIMP. I think it all just depends on use case.

RayOfSunlight,

What i mean is, most people on the Linux community (Appearently) use Krita for Image Manipulation, which is like using a screwdriver as a Hammer.

xenspidey,

I agree with that. Krita is more of a creation software in my opinion. Painting, drawing, etc.

RayOfSunlight,

Yeah but it’s because of the UI that people prefer Krita when in reality, they are hitting a nail with a paint brush

MXX53,

I can never put my finger on why I don’t stick with GIMP. I install it on every machine I own, and occasionally use it to open a file and export to another file format.

From time to time, I tell myself I will finally sit down and just only use GIMP. Finally learn the tool. Envitably I find myself googling to find every tool, and then I will come across something simple, like making a red rectangle, and I end up having to google how to do it, and then get frustrated that I can’t just draw a box and quit.

There are probably legit reasons for the decisions, but if it kills my workflow, I can’t afford to use it.

RayOfSunlight,

Doesn’t mean Krita will do the job for you either.

MXX53,

That’s correct. But I don’t remember if I said it would or not.

RayOfSunlight, (edited )

The Krita devs themselves said it, it is intended for Digital Painting

MXX53,

I’m confused. My post is about my experience with GIMP. What does Krita have to do with what I posted?

NoiseColor,

I tried it last year in a failed attempt to get of ps, which I to every few years.

I can’t name specifics, but ps is just more intuitive, more user friendly, faster, more stable, gives you more for formats… I don’t even think ps is all that. Even if we forget Adobe owns the pro space here, it’s just not viable to use gimp professionaly. I never understood why gimp doesn’t just copy all the user flows from photoshop when it’s clear that not only they work, but all users are familiar with them from other software.

RayOfSunlight,

There’s a reason of why GIMP doesn’t copy things, it’s not a Photoshop clone, but you can modify the UI to make it more like Photoshop, in fact, here is a video on how to do it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7g2JGyJeQ

An alternative option is downloading PhotoGIMP Addon for GIMP, but i consider this to be a better option.

NoiseColor,

I understand it’s not a clone, but the truth is ps has a much better ux. There is no reason to not to copy the better ux.

I tried this plugin, it does very little to make the experience better, it actually makes it worse because it’s more difficult to find things, when you can’t easily Google to find them.

RayOfSunlight,

Yes, but with Photoshop (If you are paying the creative cloud) You’ll be paying 60$ a mlnth which translates to 720$ a year every year for the rest of your natural born creative life.

Also, what functions are you trying to find anyway?

NoiseColor,

I’m paying 36 per month for the whole creative cloud. Whole. Photoshop, illustrator, AE,… It’s been a few months, but all of them are just better. Unfortunately it is what it is. And now, now with ai, it’s the only option reasonable.

RayOfSunlight, (edited )

So you’re letting yourself be a slave of the company and food for the bloodsuckers?

Edit: Not to mention that the software LITERALLY it’s not yours, you’re just paying a license that isn’t perpetual, so they can revoke it from you to make you stop using it if they want to.

NoiseColor,

I pay monthly fees for lots of stuff. A newspaper, Internet, water and heating,… For sure I’d rather not, but I mostly I don’t have an alternative option. With Adobe the case is such.

RayOfSunlight,

there ARE alternatives to Adobe Suite, here’s an article that talks about it notes.ghed.in/…/free-software-design-studios/

But in short:

Lightroom > Darktable Premier Pro > Kdenlive Ilustrator > Inkscape Adobe Audio Studio(I forgot the name) > Tenacity(Fork of Audacity)

You may also take a look at alternativeto.net to find more alternatives to more stuff

NoiseColor,

:)

Tried them all. They don’t compare.

There are some that can be replaced easily, like Adobe premier, maybe even after effects. Audacity for sure. Not indesign, Not illustrator, not photoshop. Not only because the alternative are worse, but because everyone else uses Adobe and its incredibly easier to collaborate. If you are a pro in graphic design, like a real pro that these tools are a daily use, you can’t use anything else but Adobe.

RayOfSunlight, (edited )

Can’t really compare Commercial Software with FOSS since both have different objectives, Adobe wants to empty your wallet and credit card along with everyone else’s, and FOSS focus on bringing great functioning alternatives

NoiseColor,

I’m sure you can get even more poetic about it without trying too hard, but at the end of the day you still end up with a tool that does the job significantly better and faster than the alternative - a tool that brings more value even though it costs more money.

RayOfSunlight,

Adobe only cares about how much they are squeezing from you, companies are not your friend.

But dang, you’re hopeless.

NoiseColor,

Your still don’t get it. Adobe brings the user more value, because using their software users are able to work quicker, finishing more work and earning more money. Adobe subscription is negligible. Freelancers earn more in an hour of work. But save a lot more.

Even people like me, who are for some weird reason especially inclined to use FOSS, we try to dabble in it, every few years check is anything has changed. But it doesn’t. It remains the same. Pros can’t afford not to use the best software and nothing comes close to ps, ai. Sad but true.

RayOfSunlight,

“Brings the user more value”

What kind of value? You literally don’t own the software, it’s more directed to companies rather than individuals and freelancers, not to mention it gets expensive.

NoiseColor,

I will only repeat this once more : Full Adobe package costs me less than an hour of work per month. Adobe software makes me save more than an hour per month (probably more like an hour per day).

That is an equation. An equation that favours Adobe against the alternatives.

There are no feelings here, just an equation of time and money.

RayOfSunlight,

You’re hopeless

NoiseColor,

In hopeless because I prefer to work more efficiently, faster and to make more money instead of less. Yes, I guess I am hopeless in that kind of way.

RayOfSunlight,

No, you’re hopeless because you’re letting the company control you and suck your bank account dry and you don’t see how companies are, in the end, they are very likely to kill the entire world just to keep all the money.

NoiseColor,

I make more money because of them! It’s not actually more, it’s just quicker, so I have more free time to enjoy my life. Sweet!

In the end everyone will die.

RayOfSunlight,

I hope you get your wallet sucked dry

NoiseColor,

I hope you finish your work quicker just like me, so you can have as much free time to enjoy!

RayOfSunlight,

Oh i forgot, Adobe threatened users with taking legal actions against them if they don’t updtae to the lastest version of their software once, DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY CARE ABOUT YOU? 😂

NoiseColor,

Are you off your meds? I’m not taking about who cares about who. I’m pretty sure gimp developers don’t care about me either.

RayOfSunlight,

They are not a company, and no, i don’t consume drugs of any kind, they never brought anything good to this world.

chameleon,
chameleon avatar

It's not what the buttons look like, it's what they do. In Krita, making an ellipse involves clicking the ellipse button and dragging it somewhere. You now have an ellipse, and you hold shift if you want to make it a circle instead.

In GIMP there is no direct ellipse tool, there's only an ellipse select tool, likewise you hold shift to make it a circle. Then you use a menu item to select the border of your selection, getting a popup to let you determine how much pixels you want. And then, you use the fill tool or fill menu item to fill it. That's a surprising amount of clicks to accomplish what's most likely the single most common task for anyone opening a screenshot in an image editor. I'm not aware of any easier/faster method to do it. Feels like it should exist, but this is also what you get if you search for how to draw a circle in GIMP, so if it exists everyone's missing it.

GIMP's method gives you more power, but you rarely ever need that power. But when you do, Krita also has ellipse select, border select and various fill tools that can be strung together in the same way.

RayOfSunlight,

Hm, yeah, i never used the Elipse tool, i guess yeah, that should give the advance settings as an option, but going simple should be first, wish we could reach out the devs, but it’s not an easy task. :/

B0rax,

Small comment on that: after I discovered greenshot on windows, I have never needed to open the screenshot again to edit it, because it already does all these simple tasks right after taking a screenshot.

TheJack, (edited )

As others have mentioned, it’s simple things takes alot time finding/figuring out.

I use GIMP within Ubuntu MATE few times a week to edit pictures. Simple edits nothing major.

One of the thing I need regularly is to highlight certain part of the picture.

Now in Microsoft Paint I can draw a rectangle, choose its border thickness, and color in 2 seconds.

I have learned how to do the same in GIMP few times but it took alot of time and I still forgets after few weeks.

So now I just reboot the PC and log into Windows or use Windows virtual machine and draw rectangle in 2 seconds in Microsoft Paint.

Mine is extremely simple use case, so I can only guess how difficult or how time consuming it would be for actual professional to create artistic work in GIMP vs Photoshop (or in similar commercial software).

Just my 2 cents.

klangcola,

I hope you’re joking about rebooting to Windows for paint 😁

But just in case, and for the benefit of others: KolourPaint

It’s basically KDE Paint, and works great as a simple image editor

RayOfSunlight,

Yeah i agree, it’s even available as Flatpak which makes it even better.

nasi_goreng,
@nasi_goreng@lemmy.zip avatar

The default toolbox placement is should be conform with other design software.

Sure, people can figure it out once they tried it, but majority of them will move to another software that has familiar experience out of the box.

When people asking me to install GIMP, I always change it to this layout, making it more familiar to another software like Inkscape, Krita, Affinity suites, Photoshop (and other Adobe software), etc. https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/6c22ab87-c626-49e4-bcf4-4e9c8ca9c625.webp

RayOfSunlight,

Maybe i am very used to the default layout, it would be also good that people would watch this video, it would help them a lot.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7g2JGyJeQ

nasi_goreng,
@nasi_goreng@lemmy.zip avatar

Average people will simply search app that has the most familiarity, so “looking for additional workaround” is often irrelevant.

RayOfSunlight,

God damn it i hate when people are lazy and quick to judge.

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