I don’t care what you think of me. I know who I am. Those are just words. It’s the actions that matter. Identity politics is just an expression of class struggle. Labeling people is a form of prejudice. I try not classify groups and discriminate based on political beliefs. Sometimes, people are misinformed and mislead. I’m willing to learn about different ideologies to form my own opinion. The Marxist Leninists I’ve talked to have been friendly and informed.
Defending regimes that commit war crimes and genocide is a hard red line anyone with a hint of morality will refuse to cross, let alone a leftist. I don’t accept these things coming from the West, and I certainly won’t accept it from anybody else.
You can be a ML all you like. Just don’t be one of the buffoons that support litteral genocide.
I’m fighting red-browns, not reds. And boy is there plenty of them on Lemmy, although, thankfully, their sphere of influence shrinks daily with the bans and defederations.
Edit: Being a nazi is not just a word, no. It doesn’t live in the “OK things to be” space.
Would you vote for Joe Biden if you were American? I said you can call me whatever you want since you’re hyper focused on labels. Call me Satan’s stillbirth. It doesn’t change the fact that calling people slurs on social media serves fascism.
Being a genocide-denying tankie serves fascism too, in a more litteral way. On top of, you know, scaring away people that might be interested in leftism?
You’re yelling at a cloud. I ardently defend Palestinians against their genocide on Lemmy. I don’t like labels, but would be what you call an anarchist. An Internationalist with Council Communist leanings. And I’m here to educate those who think they can have socialism without abolishing capitalism. Marxist Leninists get that, so they are allies. You can’t defend capitalism and be a socialist. It’s that simple.
I never defended capitalism. I’m actually opposed to it too. And fuck Israel’s persecution of Palestinians.
You can say those things and still denounce tankism, like the root comment was doing. This should not be contentious.
Tankies are not the allies of any denomination of anarchists. More like traditional enemies. Defend sane marxist leninists if you’d like, but don’t jump to the defence of tankies, if you don’t want to be assimilated to them.
Marxist Leninists hold no offices and have no power in America. Their organization is limited. Hating on them is performative and masturbatory. It strokes the ego. But it also serves fascism by minimizing the coalition needed to fight it. You can hate tankies with the fire of a thousand suns, but they are against the very people we hope to defeat. I’m no fan of authoritarian leftists, but that battle should be saved for the fifth international after we defeat fascism.
The enemy of my enemy is not my friend. I refuse to consider tankies to be allies, especially considering their insignificancy: they’re pretty low-value allies all around. I remember what they did to leftists last time they had the chance…
I wasn’t alive in 1922. Hopefully it won’t play out the same. We have the benefit of hindsight to avoid those mistakes. Leftist infighting serves capitalism. I choose not to participate. I prefer to reserve my anger for capitalism.
I denounce it. You can’t deal with a problem until you address it. I have participated by posting heavy handed criticism of liberalism. This post and this discussion is helping me to reconsider that method.
Problem is the so-called tankies don’t even distinguish between MAGA people in the US and US liberals or Democrats - to them, they’re both “Liberals” as in neoliberals, and for some reason they rarely criticize US conservatives while spending plenty of time criticizing US Democrats. Doesn’t make much sense from their supposed point of view.
TokenBoomer is a tankie bootlicker. Ignore them. Their only interest is in sobbing “Why won’t the socdems work with us???” while simultaneously saying that socdems and fascists are the exact same thing.
“Left unity” to tankies means “Lick out boots until we put a bullet in your head”. Obey the party line!
The issue isn’t with wanting to work together - that’s the key point you’re missing. It’s the way left-leaning Americans are lumped in with complete fascists, like it’s either 100% good or “You’re a LIBERAL just like Republicans!” (meaning neoliberal, which is also confusing af in American political terms).
I didn’t say that though. I said not communist enough as I doubt that I’d pass the ideological purity test of thinking that anything short of perfection may as well be MAGA.
If you’re anti-capitalist, Republicans and Democrats are the same. And they criticize both, but…
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice
I realize their perspective is purely economic issues. However, it completely overlooks the vast difference on social issues and the fact that MAGA wants to institute a more harsh form of capitalism, plus theocratic dictatorship. Seems like a worthy distinction to me. Plus, that doesn’t explain why they’re so hot to criticize people like Biden and Elizabeth Warren or Hillary Clinton but don’t say jack shit about the various Trump supporting clowns prominent in US politics.
Yes, thanks for the MLK quote but not sure why you thought I needed to read that again right now.
I don’t need you to read it, I need you to understand it. MLK was writing about people like Biden, Hillary and Warren, who are more concerned with rules and order than justice. Trump and MAGA are the KKK. We know what they are.
The problem is liberals attacking tankies, who they need to work with to counter the fascism of Trump and conservatives. I want liberals and leftists to work together, but some are so hellbent on purity tests that they fail to see the big picture. Anarchists and Marxists Leninists should know that to ultimately defeat fascism, you have to dismantle capitalism.
I’m not allying with people defending Russia’s persecution of the LGBT and Russian imperialism. I don’t want to replace an imperialism with another imperialism with an exotic taste.
I checked. Search Halal Nation on Reddit. It was posted to the Destiny subreddit and EnoughCommieSpam. The post in Destiny has different numbers of comments, retweets and likes, but the post to r/EnoughCommieSpam has the same number of comments, retweet’s and likes. It was taken from that subreddit. If OP got it from twitter, those numbers would have changed. Check yourself.
You haven’t provided shit. You just said proof existed, without giving such proof.
Thanks for going mask-off, btw. You’re saving me precious time fighting tankie disinformation.
And to everyone else wondering, you can be a leftist, against US imperialism, pro-Palestine and all that jazz without endorsing Russian/North-Korean crimes.
You’re quite right that tankies are not that bad in real life, due to their statistical insignificance. Thankfully!
And to everyone else wondering, you can be a leftist, against US imperialism, pro-Palestine and all that jazz without endorsing Russian/North-Korean crimes.
If you are all of those things, why contribute to the demonization of a group that you yourself considers statistically insignificant, when Trump and fascism are a more significant threat?
That doesn’t prove your conspiracy theory that enoughcommiespam people are trying to invade Lemmy. A post happens to have appeared on both communities, tough shit. Happens all the time everywhere on Reddit/Lemmy.
The comment/like count is not even close.
Tankies betray leftist causes in online spaces. I care about the real world, Lemmy and other platforms, but, on Lemmy, I can only do something about tankies to prevent them from scaring away people that might genuinely be interested in leftism. Let those people know that leftism is not crazy town. You only get to see the Lemmy part.
I picked this up from a bing search, so it might be from enoughcommiespam for all I know.
I was never subbed to ECS back when I used Reddit because it always had an unpleasant right-wing taste though. I was part of tankiejerk until they banned me for saying ethnocentrism was bad even if it was minority ethnocentrism.
Ironically, I am subbed to EnoughCommieSpam, and a tankie, apparently. I don’t see them as a problem, because to fight fascism in America, we need them. Sorry I made the accusation.
It is certainly a path. One which has failed repeatedly. I don’t quite understand the dogma which surrounds this particular bit of conventional wisdom. It seems to intentionally ignore an entire century of revisionist thought, and rapidly becomes a braindead purity test in my experience.
Do you mean that in the original Marxist sense, where a dictatorship of the proletariat is contrasted to the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie - ie that it is referring to the domination of one class over the structures of democratic government rather than a literal autocratic or oligarchic regime? Or the ML sense where it means "Everyone obeys the Party Line, please ignore who controls the Party"?
The classic Marxist sense, although i think Lenin’s ideology was necessary for a successful revolution to occur in his time. The Party went down hill majorly when Stalin took over instead of Trotsky.
I'm down. I understand support of Lenin, even if I personally disagree and side more with the SRs, and have sympathies for the Makhnovists. Post-Lenin is when it gets truly gruesome.
Eh, I think Trotsky and Lenin have some responsibility. While I am in full support of October (and Leninists ideology), I think the Bolshevik repression of the 20-21 strike wave was a troubling development demonstrating separation between the party and the class. (Kronstadt began in sympathy with that strike wave.) Then in the 10th Party Congress, the Workers Opposition took up some of the workers demands and pushed a program to keep party and state separate. They urged union control of the economy and democracy. In response, Trotsky argued that unions would no longer be necessary at all! Even Lenin thought that was going too far. But this is when democracy came under attack even within the party and factions were formerly banned.
The text was banned in Soviet Russia in March of 1921, by resolution of the 10th Congress of the Communist Party. The headings, “individual or collective management” and “bureaucracy and self activity of the masses” seem prescient.
Trotsky became a champion of democracy a little late, only after methods of repression he himself used were turned against him.
Disagree. Maybe as used by right wing folks but it’s definitely used to describe apologists of authoritarian regimes claiming to be communist, ie China and Russia.
It depends where, but I’ve only really seen it said on Lemmy in discussions regarding international relations and my time on Reddit has been significantly reduced.
I have also seen a lot of people on Lemmy who are obvious tankies argue that it is a slur against communist supporters rather than a specific criticism about tribalism, realpolitik, and internal imperialism engaged by communist countries.
It is in the vested interest of tankies to change the meaning of the word.
It is used as a slur against unapologetic socialists and communists sometimes, although actual tankies would like to pretend it’s only a slur and not descriptive of Stalinists.
The dictator of the proletariat isn’t one guy. It’s the group of people who work. As opposed to now where most countries are a dictatorship of the wealthy.
It literally means the workers (like you and I) dictating the rules. If you’re a commie it means democratically. Who dictates the rules now? The wealthy.
Right, a dictatorship OF the class proletariat OVER the class bourgeoisie. And can, should, or even needs to be a democracy WITHIN the proletariat.
Unfortunately, tankies turn the phrase into an excuse for authoritarianism, which they wank over.
Marx himself called the Paris Commune to be an example of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. The Commune had universal suffrage and recall of neighborhood representatives on demand.
"Long before me, bourgeois historians had described the historical development of this struggle between the classes, as had bourgeois economists their economic anatomy. My own contribution was (1) to show that the existence of classes is merely bound up with certain historical phases in the development of production; (2) that the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat; [and] (3) that this dictatorship, itself, constitutes no more than a transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society."
Oh don’t worry. People say a lot of dumb things. I have been called a „atheist communist jew“ once. Followed by „catholic nazi“. Come to think of it, that would make a killer plot for a action movie.
Are they fighting in that movie? Or is it one, incredibly conflicted individual coping with existence? Could be an action flick or introspective philosophy piece
Yeah, but a tankie send me an essay of words with words in them and when I asked for a source they send me a link with words which led to more sites with words on it and when I hit the original source I reached a YouTube video where some dude talking out of his ass about CIA doing the crimes and there are no crimes but when there are it was CIA but there are no other crime doers then Muslims they deserve what is happening to them which is nothing but if then it is CIA.
Obscurantism is a favorite tool of tankies, along with blatant denials of reality and conspiratorial thinking. Almost like they're far-right goons same as any MAGA bootlicker, just painted a slightly different shade of red.
The thing to remember with all authoritarians. Is that they aren’t realistically left or right. They will use whatever means they think they can to maintain control and power. If they think moving in a more socialist direction. Will have people acquiesce and cooperate while still giving them plenty of wealth and power. They will 100% do that. We’ve seen it in the USSR, we’ve seen it in China, we’ve seen it in North Korea. Or they can go capitalist/fascistic as the United States has done for 100 years or so.
Hypocrisy isn’t a flaw to them. It is a tool to be used heavily.
And only the redscarers mistakenly use CCP its CPC totally not like the CCCP which is bad except when it’s good and Putin is the moral successor of the completely justified pograms against the bourjwasee.
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