A couple Israelis here, like @exmaahal and @yuvalne make an argument against reoccupation of Gaza: Israel did that, and wasn't safer for it - it's been 18 years since the disengagement, same as between the founding of Hamas and the disengagement, and the more recent 18 years, until 6.10, were a lot safer.
@Alon@exmaahal@yuvalne I’d buy a Qatari security plan (make them responsible until Gaza can de-Hamas-ify) but I don’t think Gazans will ever — or should ever — accept Israeli occupation.
@SamTheGeek@Alon@yuvalne
I doubt Gazans will appreciate a Qatari occupation either. I also doubt that it's realistic for Qatar to "control" two million people in an enclave that's so far away.
@yuvalne@exmaahal@SamTheGeek Yeah, and Qatari security in this context would just be outsourced to Hamas. The Gulf states have gold-plated but bad militaries - American defense watchers see how Saudi Arabia is using the American tanks it has and it's just bad. (One of the reasons to be skeptical of a ground invasion of Gaza's prospects for success: the US did it in Fallujah with a pretty low civilian casualty ratio, but the IDF isn't the US Army either.)
If they didn't consider hate for each others religions a core value they could build a middle east union and everyone would be better off. Forget about who occupies who, religion is a terrible basis for government (a mistake the outsiders make constantly even though internally they don't have it as their basis)
@exmaahal@yuvalne@SamTheGeek everyone in the area wants to kill everyone of a different religion. Sunni and shiite Muslims. Everyone vs the Jews. And a few other random religions mixed in. If they could agree to live in peace the area could be rich and greatly enhance world prosperity ,but they won't.
@bluGill@exmaahal@yuvalne@SamTheGeek Also people of the same religion (Hamas vs. Fatah, the constant worry in Israel of a left vs. right civil war...).
@bluGill@yuvalne@Alon@SamTheGeek
This is a gross simplification. Religion is definitely a factor in the conflicts in the Middle East, but it's not the only one. The heritage of colonialism, a struggle over resources, dictatory regimes, and the influence of world powers play a major role.
What people agree to hardly counts in this mix.
@Alon@exmaahal@yuvalne I have no military experience so my opinions are not worth beans but it seems like the cost of a protracted war in densely populated urban area is just too great with little chance of success. Occupations never achieve political ends. How to shut down the financing that's allowed Hamas to build & stockpile an arsenal, recruit followers, etc. is a bigger issue for me.
Israel can cease firing without declaring a cease fire as it comes up with a strategy
@tobie1@Alon@exmaahal@yuvalne one thing the Israeli leadership might consider is not seeing Hamas as a useful tool to keep Palestinians politically divided and thus forestall a Palestinian state… Netanyahu's apparent strategy.
@matunos@Alon@exmaahal@yuvalne I'm not defending Netanyahu at all but I also will not be party to this deflection. Netanyahu is an awful leader in ways too numerous to count, but Hamas also bears responsibility for what it has done. This reflexive blame shifting is annoying.
@tobie1@matunos@exmaahal@yuvalne It's blame shifting in the same way that if the crime rate rises, I blame the government for failing, but this doesn't mean I think criminals are valid. So the criticism of Bibi is that he made many moves that strengthened Hamas due to his own failures as a leader: he didn't reward Abbas for cooperating, he moved troops away from the Gaza Envelope to the West Bank, he still has useless political appointees running important state functions to the ground.
@Alon I'm deleting my last post. I thought Matunos was responding to another toot of mine and that's why I responded the way I did. @matunos: I now see you were discussing what Israel's strategy should be and my response was inappropriate. Apologies.
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