I’ve been using it for a few months now and only rarely I used console and it was just to paste some commands for something. So yeah, I don’t think that you really need to know howbto use console if you don’t need to do anything that specifically needs it.
I live near exclusively in the console because it’s my work and I love it, it’s WAY more efficient than the GUI, but last time I actually NEEDED the console? I can’t remember, honestly.
Also are you trying to say you never needed to figure something out on windows? Granted, I don’t read much about it because fuck Windows, but I remember windows Registry headaches, is that still a thing? Just copy paste these base64 codes in the registry in these UUID keys, which literally would be impossible to learn, and it will fix it, super easy!
At least not for the regular joe stuff I do.
Obviously I tinker with my install and am not shy about reverting to a backup if I know it will be highly intrusive.
For the not so regular joe stuff close to the pro-sumer region you probably will have to research just about anything if you want to achieve something.
You have to learn a little for any task, so people saying that they don’t want to learn something is a bit weird.
Linux really isn’t more complicated than windows. Actually, after 25 years of Linux desktop, looking at windows it’s frustrating complication after complication.
I am not desinterested to learn.
It just doesnt make sense to always have a need to enter the CLI for stuff regular users want to do.
Let the power toys be under the hood, no problem with that. But the regular folks don’t even grasp the idea to find out how to change the IP of their regular windows PC for something they want.
Linux is currently developed by tech enthusiasts for mostly tech enthusiasts. Who tells the (by the way awesome) maintainers to stop and think what they develop in that particular way?
Even a group of maintainers might fall into the trap to develop something in such a way that it overwhelms the regular user.
IMO what it needs is resiliency against those users and more aim to make it idiot proof (for them) and make it more an actual daily driver that first has a GUI for the most common tools and then the CLI if needed
looking at windows it’s frustrating complication after complication.
Tell that a Windows admin and that admin might say the same about you and your OS.
In the end, everyones wants it their way.
I had to often look up how to do stuff on windows because of it’s trash UX so it’s an absolute W for me. But I can understand that terminal may look too scary/complicated to some ppl.
Oh Windows is certainly not exempt from the issue. Not at all.
Personally I don’t have any issue with the terminal but sometimes I am totally not in the mood to research yet another time why or how to run anything.
Also I prefer Word way too much over Libre/OpenOffice.
Only if they had a word-like theme and translation to achieve what I want in a word-like behaviour it could tempt me to switch the tools.
If you just want to browse the web and edit work documents you have nothing to fear.
If you just want a game and don’t want to be too awfully picky about what you’re playing you have nothing to fear
If you want to play anti-cheap games and host docker components you’re going to have to do a little console here and there.
If you want to stream to YouTube and twitch, You’re probably not going to have as much of a good time. You can still do it but there’s work and compromises involved.
Cheers, I’ll give it a go. Unfortunately I’ll have to navigate my way through the Denuvo BS that Capcom loves shoving down our throats.
On the plus side I’ve been using the libreoffice suite and frankly speaking it’s more or less comparable to what Windows offers for my needs. Their excel equivalent feels really jank though.
In about half a dozen distros VFL does not work out of the box for OBS.
If you flat pack your OBS and don’t do it exactly right with all the plugins at once, the plugin sandbox causes issues in OBS.
If you’re running an OBS bot camera things get extra spicy.
In most cases high color support is not allowed.
If you’re trying to do stream Deck stuff that can be an issue.
Don’t get me wrong I’m glad it wasn’t a big deal for you but for your average person coming in complaining that terminals are too much, they might be in for a less than stellar experience.
Best way to make the switch is by immersion. I’d also like to add it’s best to do it when you’re not being forced on a timeline, and you have time to deal with it. All my personal machines made the jump 7 years ago and I don’t regret it.
I considered it before I switched from 7 to 10, but since 10 still makes it possible to create an offline account and disable most of the spyware and other bloat, I opted to stay with Windows for another generation of OS. 11 is different though, it’s several steps too far into proprietary hell.
I think the same, Win10 is still “domesticable”, because of this it will be the last Win I’ll use, maybe in Octubre 2025 in dual boot with Linux, for local use. Win 11 is already beginning to take over the user’s PC as its own and Win 12 probably only admitting apps from the MS Store, naturally most proprietary paid apps or free with ads or hidden costs (Free*)
I switched from Win7 to Linux, but you are right, few stuck to their guns on that threat. My only Windows machine now is a work laptop that I have to use for some tasks. Admittedly, even Win 10 is looking good now compared to Win11. MS is doing a bang up job as being consumer antagonists.
It won’t be a security risk once it’s in use, IT across Germany will know within days of deployment. It will almost definitely be a modified version of some probably well known Linux.
No sense in giving an adversary info on the distro before it’s fully implemented though I imagine. (I would consider that a head-start even if they heavily modify a popular distro)
Giving the See👁️Aye advanced notice wouldn’t be smart, no matter how they wanted to play it.
I don’t think it really matters whether a potential adversary has a ‘head start’ all that much, security through obscurity doesn’t work super well when it’s going to be deployed to thousands of easily accessible devices anyway. It’d only just be a defense in depth, but even then meh. But it’s neither here nor there, they’ll do it whatever way they feel is best.
Basically all of social engineering is to get exactly what you’re talking about, a “head start”
Go to their LinkedIn: does the head engineer have MySQL version X on his skills, resume, job description, etc? Maybe somebody even endorsed them for it? “Wow they are THE best database administrator”
Now you know who you need to hack for their database access AND what zero days to research.
Social engineering is to gain access circumventing downcode, not really “get a head start”…
Most attacks are entirely social engineering. You’re not breaking into secure databases by pulling ridiculous zero day backdoors when it’s much easier to convince an intern to download a file or give you access directly. These super involved attacks are state actors, and no amount of trying to hide what Linux version is being modified will do anything for you there.
State actors of course also use social engineering
Ultimately the point is hacking really doesn’t involve the kind of subterfuge you’re describing here in a way where " what Linux is it " matters at all. I mean, windows is used for secure systems across the world, it’s hardly secretive.
I keep seeing headlines like this all the time. I’m over here like “This has already been a thing for years”. Whenever I’d setup a win10 pc for someone, I’d have to clean the ads out of the start menu as part of the setup. So I ask again, how is this any different from the bullshit we’re already dealing with?
Honestly Wine and Bottles are both pretty great at running windows programs these days, I wouldn’t worry to much about that so long as you check and make sure the critical software you need works.
Fonts have looked like shit on Linux for years, if not decades. The poor UI and lack of polish has been a big problem in design communities for a long time, and to many it’s one of the reasons why Linux is less favourable to Mac and Windows.
This is the biggest hangup for me. Even if there is a GUI, most instructions will send you into the terminal nonetheless.
For all the deserved shit that Windows gets, it “just works” without ever needing to touch config or a terminal. Until a Linux distro and window management system can get this part right, it’s silly to call it a desktop replacement for the average person because it’s not trying to be.
My point exactly. I’ve watched people break down over the start menu changing, or being unable to do anything after switching to a Mac. If you think the average person will go through this shit you’re mistaken…but I’d expect nothing less from Lemmy. It’s a bit like Slashdot from 20 years ago…
I had to explain to users where to find the windows key or how to start a search in the start menu.
Many can’t comprehend typing if there is not a textbox…
I don’t see anything wrong with fonts or the UI in Linux rn. I had tried Linux multiple times back in the 2000s and early 2010s and you are right, it used to look bad compared to windows and macs.
But if I am being very honest here, Linux looks better than both windows and mac currently. Either GNOME or KDE Plasma easily look much better, just pick the one you prefer. There is also Cinnamon.
It is not hard at all to find the one you like. As I was installing Debian 12 there was a list with checkboxes to select the GUIs I wanted installed and I just installed all of them, then whenever you startup, on the login interface where you have to insert your password, there is a dropdown list to select the interface you want to use, and you can change back and forth between all of them as much as you want, this is so much better than windows by itself (if you want to have options to change the look of windows that is a lot more work, Linux on the other hand has a bunch of well tested, trustworthy and cohesive interfaces ready to go, you just select them on a list.
For me I like GNOME better, thousand times prettier than windows 10 that I was using before. Most people seem to prefer KDE Plasma tho. Just have a look at them, ain’t no way you will come out thinking they lack anything compared to windows.
My daily drivers are MacOS and Fedora (with Windows on my Surface Book), but I’m a software engineer, not the average person.
I would love for Linux on the desktop to be viable for the average person, but there isn’t really a built-in option that can beat Windows at what it’s good at, and that’s backwards compatibility, and a clean interface that users know. The attitude of “well, Linux is just better” hasn’t worked for decades, and it never will until there is a distro that prioritises that (hard) switch.
I don’t know if Microsoft’s choices to drive windows into the ground are going to have an immediate impact on Linux adoption (though you certainly see some governments trialing Linux right now because of it) but in the medium term they basically demand that Linux increase in users by a massive amount.
I know business not gaming is where Microsoft sees the value of Windows (and there is wayyyyyy more money in selling software for business) but I think a strategic defeat is happening right now with the steam deck taking off and more broadly the association in computer nerd’s minds that windows is the operating system to stick with is essentially all but evaporated from the series of bogglingly condescending decisions Microsoft has made about the future development of windows.
They lost, this period will gone down as a historic unforced error of a tech company undermining the foundation of their profits to make a bit more profits in the near term. They could have kept linux gaming mostly a pipe dream indefinitely if they just made sure windows wasn’t ever tooooo shitty of an experience for gaming, but now the dam is broken and though it might not be a flood all it once, the people leaving windows are never coming back and the movement of users away from windows will erode the levee behind the dam, compromising Microsoft’s basic ability to hold on to users, for gaming or business.
It starts with a trickle, but before we know it in a blink of an eye that trickle is going to cut a channel and slips its fingers back under the dam and destabilize the entire thing, and then it will be a massive rush of users leaving that Microsoft can’t control at all because they ignored the issue until the process was way past a point of no return.
Overall, it’s not quite as elegant, as AutoHotKey, but it’s ultimately a more powerful, since there’s so much else I can also do from the same Python script.
Edit: Most notably, I don’t recall AutoHotKey having any nice way to tell which apps are open, and Python can quickly call out to ps. It’s been on my to-do list to leverage this to let me map keybindings according to what is open (i.e. a favorite game, or a move player.)
It looks much better actually, with the fancy blur and transparency effects. Not to say it works better than Linux, and I’m sure it must be possible to customise KDE to look better.
Yeah there are plenty of kwin effect you can install that would make it as pretty as windows 11 if that’s important to you. Just like there are plenty of themes you can install if you want a macOS experience instead
@tsonfeir But Linux does not have AutoHotkey. This is the biggest deal-breaker for me by far. AutoKey seems be the closest thing, but it's such a massive pain to even try to use by comparison.
I doesn’t have auto hotkey because for the most part, you can control Linux from the command-line without someone having to invent a new scripting language from scratch to control it.
I heavily recommend you familiarize yourself with bash and the system commands you’ll need to send key presses, move windows, spawn and kill programs, etc.
Apparently, xdotool can! I guess the next thing would be generating GUIs. I think the final issue is that this would cause quite the fragmentation given how I use the same scripts on my Windows-only work laptop... but I'll think about this more...
An alternative is python, it can do GUIs easily, and it does have mouse-control facilités as well and it is cross plaform. That being said generally on Linux you don’t even need to automate mouse click, as almost all of it can be controllers with straight up commands.
Do you have any as-convenient alternative? It's way easier to use than Python or anything else, and it's sped up some of my work procedures by, like, 7x. I use it for dozens of text expansion strings, autocorrect, address typers, mouse-clickers, etc.
Never mind, I've since stumbled across xdotool! I suppose this may be doable after all...
Interesting, thanks. I think ultimately, seeing this port's adherence to AHK v1 syntax, I'd just have to bite the bullet and learn Python or something, though...
I’ve used Linux on every PC except my gaming PC for years. This year I made the final leap because of decisions like this from Microsoft.
Very few games have failed to work, the ones that have are all from Epic and they fail because of their shitty anticheat software. The only other things I feel the lack of are paint.net and the Affinity apps.
5 in use. Main Gaming PC, Laptop, Game server pc, media server PC, and another for testing things out. Whenever a family member upgrades I get the old one so most of these are pretty old.
I have gimp and other graphics tools, I also have a LOT of hours of use in the ones I mentioned so there are things I know how to do quickly in those programs but not in their counterparts.
EAC is now largely compatible with Linux, but devs have to enable support per game.
I recommend browsing protondb to see how (if) people have made games with anticheat work, you might need to change proton versions, add launch options etc.
Pinta is a fork of an older version of paint.net: www.pinta-project.com I have no idea if it is any good. I just thought that this might solve your problem.
I have Pinta, it’s ok but lacks a lot of the plugins I used and hasn’t been too stable. The graphics editing thing is something that will,just take time for me to rework my workflows. Gimp is great, I’m just not used to it.
If Microsoft does that I’m wiping out my laptop and going back to Linux*
only reason I moved away is I bought a new laptop to replace my 2010 Mac mini that ran LinuxMint, and the laptop came preloaded with Windows 11 and I decided to just keep using it as-is as I liked the UI.
Fun fact: it is not an entirely new idea. Microsoft did something similar with Active Desktop in Windows 98 but was later removed.
This is why Linux rules tbh, little to no rules what so ever in terms of customizing your desktop whilst also not having shit like this too like having so much bloat and constant ads, like telling you to install edge everytime whilst protecting your privacy too.
More seriously, I was thinking more of foss desktop environments and user programs (which are basically the same all over) than about the actual os - thanks for correcting me
I think that this betrays their plans: Windows will go “free with ads”, with an ad-free version that is subscription only. That doesn’t hurt their bottomline since the governments and companies of the western world will still go subscription in order to get support. The ones who don’t have enough money for that (individuals, small countries/companies, small municipalities), they will go “free with ads”. I mean, practically, Windows is free even right now. They have oem serial numbers that activate the OS for free, legally, to be reused. So why not make it profitable, it’s their thinking. Also, on newer builds of Win11 you can’t avoid logging in without an msn account.
That is the Trap. Pre-installed Windows is not free, you pay for it in the price of the PC, the same PC without OS is almost ~€100 cheaper. A lot of vendors offer now PC only with FreeDOS, where you can select to install Linux, paying only the CD or USB or install Windows, paying it’s license (€100-120).
Add comment