So Microsoft is one of the most valuable companies in the entire world. They have a stranglehold on corporate America, power a huge the cloud infrastructure, hold one of the largest sources of telemetry/user data, and are the defacto standard of PC environments worldwide.
Why in the fuck do they need to pivot to ads? I’m genuinely curious. Even if they lost 50% of their entire business they would still be one of the most profitable companies in the world.
@SuperSynthia@dvdnet62 Because for capitalism, profit is not the end, only a means to the end. The end is to accumulate sufficient capital to absorb all competitors and achieve total control of markets.
Yea but like, their competitors, when it comes to operating systems are Apple, which isn’t anywhere near small enough to be obtainable by anyone and Linux and Linux-Derivatives, which are also unobtainable due to their open source nature.
Not every larger company is automatically evil, just because they exist within a capitalist market. A lot of them are, sure. At least to some extent. But there still are privately owned enterprises that do have a conscience.
Also, calling them “capitalist” enterprises seems redundant.
@accideath I'm calling them capitalist enterprises to emphasize that they are capitalist enterprises. They accumulate capital. That is what they are and defines what they do.
A capitalist enterprise does not decide it has enough and can retire and take up gardening. It is not a person. It does not have a conscience.
A privately owned enterprise can. Publicly traded ones can’t. A privately owned enterprise also doesn’t need to make more money, if the owner doesn’t want that. A publicly traded company that has to answer to its shareholders has to make more money and to keep growing to appease said shareholders. If you don’t have shareholders you don’t have to do anything like that. That doesn’t mean, of course, that any privately owned company is automatically good – many aren’t – but it does mean that they have the capability to not be evil.
@accideath We started by talking about Microsoft, and I was explaining that there's no such thing as "enough" profit for a capitalist enterprise.
There are many organizations that are not capitalist enterprises. There are small businesses and cooperatives where the owners deliberately keep profits low. The small business doesn't have a conscience; the owners may. And it leaves them vulnerable. Small businesses destroyed or absorbed by larger ones is the third oldest story in capitalism.
As long as we‘re in a capitalist market, which we are and probably will be for a while, any for-profit company, however small or big it is or however private or public it is, is a capitalist company. You have to be in order to make profit. At all. And yes, usually, the bigger they are, the worse they are. But not every for-profit company is evil, thus not every capitalist company is evil.
And businesses do have a conscience. It’s the sum of their owners‘ consciences.
And also, you do not need to be evil to be successful although it is probably easier.
@accideath No, an organization does not have a conscience. It is not the sum total of the consciences of its owners. It is not a collective person. It is an engine.
One of the reasons to be clear about this is that you can quite easily find people who believe that Microsoft, for instance, is doing good in the world. I used to work for Microsoft and met career Microsoft people who obviously sincerely believed in it.
You have to first understand how the engine actually works.
That would suggest even more, that the conscience of a company is the sum of the conscience of every decision making individual affiliated with the company. Companies can have values (and I‘m not talking about the “we‘re family here” values from the company handbook but the values that are actually enforced and acted upon. Those translate into the conscience
I think it’s the same reason games offer a cash shop for things you can get in-game. Sure they’re making billions but why not billions plus ad revenue? I don’t agree with the practice but the answer always comes back to money.
Because when you have shareholders, there’s no such thing as “we’re profitable enough”. Shareholders always demand more. Ads means more profit, at least in the short term. Next quarter profits are all that matter to public companies.
It doesn’t have to be, of course. Taking a look at the long, sordid history of how the privilege of incorporation has been perverted in this way, it becomes clear what needs to be done to fix it.
Basically, abolish corporate personhood by overturning the sequence of court decisions cited in the article that got us to this point. Or, as the last sentence in the article hyperlinks to, pass these Constitutional Amendments.
It’s not just that they demand more, they demand more/faster growth all the time. It doesn’t matter that the economy has slowed down to borderline recession, it doesn’t matter that they pretty much captured all the market they can, they still need to make more and more money every quarter otherwise they’re considered a failure even if they are one of the biggest companies in the world.
the shareholders don’t get that. the top managers, CEOs etc. get it. some of them may be shareholders as well, but that’s not how they fill their pockets.
Isn’t it obvious? Start Menu is being used by every windows user but is not generating any revenue Serving ads will enable them to better support the platform and provide more advanced features. Ad supported version is better than making it a subscription like some third party apps have done. Start8 I think, basic copy of Microsoft’s Start Menu but paid.
I’d believe Google has a larger data collection as it’s includes both google hardware and software products.
Google can also connnect the dots between an extreme amount of user data and services.
Although not the same, this has been going on for about two years now. Jensen Harris, a former MS engineer, criticized the ads as well as the design of the new Start Menu, over here: threadreaderapp.com/…/1564399431545667585.html
Overall, it’s not quite as elegant, as AutoHotKey, but it’s ultimately a more powerful, since there’s so much else I can also do from the same Python script.
Edit: Most notably, I don’t recall AutoHotKey having any nice way to tell which apps are open, and Python can quickly call out to ps. It’s been on my to-do list to leverage this to let me map keybindings according to what is open (i.e. a favorite game, or a move player.)
It looks much better actually, with the fancy blur and transparency effects. Not to say it works better than Linux, and I’m sure it must be possible to customise KDE to look better.
Yeah there are plenty of kwin effect you can install that would make it as pretty as windows 11 if that’s important to you. Just like there are plenty of themes you can install if you want a macOS experience instead
@tsonfeir But Linux does not have AutoHotkey. This is the biggest deal-breaker for me by far. AutoKey seems be the closest thing, but it's such a massive pain to even try to use by comparison.
I doesn’t have auto hotkey because for the most part, you can control Linux from the command-line without someone having to invent a new scripting language from scratch to control it.
I heavily recommend you familiarize yourself with bash and the system commands you’ll need to send key presses, move windows, spawn and kill programs, etc.
Apparently, xdotool can! I guess the next thing would be generating GUIs. I think the final issue is that this would cause quite the fragmentation given how I use the same scripts on my Windows-only work laptop... but I'll think about this more...
An alternative is python, it can do GUIs easily, and it does have mouse-control facilités as well and it is cross plaform. That being said generally on Linux you don’t even need to automate mouse click, as almost all of it can be controllers with straight up commands.
Do you have any as-convenient alternative? It's way easier to use than Python or anything else, and it's sped up some of my work procedures by, like, 7x. I use it for dozens of text expansion strings, autocorrect, address typers, mouse-clickers, etc.
Never mind, I've since stumbled across xdotool! I suppose this may be doable after all...
Interesting, thanks. I think ultimately, seeing this port's adherence to AHK v1 syntax, I'd just have to bite the bullet and learn Python or something, though...
It won’t be a security risk once it’s in use, IT across Germany will know within days of deployment. It will almost definitely be a modified version of some probably well known Linux.
No sense in giving an adversary info on the distro before it’s fully implemented though I imagine. (I would consider that a head-start even if they heavily modify a popular distro)
Giving the See👁️Aye advanced notice wouldn’t be smart, no matter how they wanted to play it.
I don’t think it really matters whether a potential adversary has a ‘head start’ all that much, security through obscurity doesn’t work super well when it’s going to be deployed to thousands of easily accessible devices anyway. It’d only just be a defense in depth, but even then meh. But it’s neither here nor there, they’ll do it whatever way they feel is best.
Basically all of social engineering is to get exactly what you’re talking about, a “head start”
Go to their LinkedIn: does the head engineer have MySQL version X on his skills, resume, job description, etc? Maybe somebody even endorsed them for it? “Wow they are THE best database administrator”
Now you know who you need to hack for their database access AND what zero days to research.
Social engineering is to gain access circumventing downcode, not really “get a head start”…
Most attacks are entirely social engineering. You’re not breaking into secure databases by pulling ridiculous zero day backdoors when it’s much easier to convince an intern to download a file or give you access directly. These super involved attacks are state actors, and no amount of trying to hide what Linux version is being modified will do anything for you there.
State actors of course also use social engineering
Ultimately the point is hacking really doesn’t involve the kind of subterfuge you’re describing here in a way where " what Linux is it " matters at all. I mean, windows is used for secure systems across the world, it’s hardly secretive.
Honestly Wine and Bottles are both pretty great at running windows programs these days, I wouldn’t worry to much about that so long as you check and make sure the critical software you need works.
Fonts have looked like shit on Linux for years, if not decades. The poor UI and lack of polish has been a big problem in design communities for a long time, and to many it’s one of the reasons why Linux is less favourable to Mac and Windows.
This is the biggest hangup for me. Even if there is a GUI, most instructions will send you into the terminal nonetheless.
For all the deserved shit that Windows gets, it “just works” without ever needing to touch config or a terminal. Until a Linux distro and window management system can get this part right, it’s silly to call it a desktop replacement for the average person because it’s not trying to be.
My point exactly. I’ve watched people break down over the start menu changing, or being unable to do anything after switching to a Mac. If you think the average person will go through this shit you’re mistaken…but I’d expect nothing less from Lemmy. It’s a bit like Slashdot from 20 years ago…
I had to explain to users where to find the windows key or how to start a search in the start menu.
Many can’t comprehend typing if there is not a textbox…
I don’t see anything wrong with fonts or the UI in Linux rn. I had tried Linux multiple times back in the 2000s and early 2010s and you are right, it used to look bad compared to windows and macs.
But if I am being very honest here, Linux looks better than both windows and mac currently. Either GNOME or KDE Plasma easily look much better, just pick the one you prefer. There is also Cinnamon.
It is not hard at all to find the one you like. As I was installing Debian 12 there was a list with checkboxes to select the GUIs I wanted installed and I just installed all of them, then whenever you startup, on the login interface where you have to insert your password, there is a dropdown list to select the interface you want to use, and you can change back and forth between all of them as much as you want, this is so much better than windows by itself (if you want to have options to change the look of windows that is a lot more work, Linux on the other hand has a bunch of well tested, trustworthy and cohesive interfaces ready to go, you just select them on a list.
For me I like GNOME better, thousand times prettier than windows 10 that I was using before. Most people seem to prefer KDE Plasma tho. Just have a look at them, ain’t no way you will come out thinking they lack anything compared to windows.
My daily drivers are MacOS and Fedora (with Windows on my Surface Book), but I’m a software engineer, not the average person.
I would love for Linux on the desktop to be viable for the average person, but there isn’t really a built-in option that can beat Windows at what it’s good at, and that’s backwards compatibility, and a clean interface that users know. The attitude of “well, Linux is just better” hasn’t worked for decades, and it never will until there is a distro that prioritises that (hard) switch.
I don’t know if Microsoft’s choices to drive windows into the ground are going to have an immediate impact on Linux adoption (though you certainly see some governments trialing Linux right now because of it) but in the medium term they basically demand that Linux increase in users by a massive amount.
I know business not gaming is where Microsoft sees the value of Windows (and there is wayyyyyy more money in selling software for business) but I think a strategic defeat is happening right now with the steam deck taking off and more broadly the association in computer nerd’s minds that windows is the operating system to stick with is essentially all but evaporated from the series of bogglingly condescending decisions Microsoft has made about the future development of windows.
They lost, this period will gone down as a historic unforced error of a tech company undermining the foundation of their profits to make a bit more profits in the near term. They could have kept linux gaming mostly a pipe dream indefinitely if they just made sure windows wasn’t ever tooooo shitty of an experience for gaming, but now the dam is broken and though it might not be a flood all it once, the people leaving windows are never coming back and the movement of users away from windows will erode the levee behind the dam, compromising Microsoft’s basic ability to hold on to users, for gaming or business.
It starts with a trickle, but before we know it in a blink of an eye that trickle is going to cut a channel and slips its fingers back under the dam and destabilize the entire thing, and then it will be a massive rush of users leaving that Microsoft can’t control at all because they ignored the issue until the process was way past a point of no return.
I’m under no illusion Ubuntu is perfect. But I PAID for my Windows licenses. And if I paid, I don’t want to see ads. I don’t care about Win 8’s penetrative pricing model or the $25 coupon. I don’t care that I paid for my licenses 10+ years ago. Don’t sell me ads on a product I paid for. And Windows serves up ads all the god damned time now. If there’s anything good to be said about Windows 8, it’s that it didn’t take every opportunity to sell me an Office 365 subscription ever second breath I took. I don’t actually remember the last time I saw an ad in Ubuntu, and I’ve been using it to varying degrees since 2011. I think we can at least agree Canonical is better than Microsoft, yeah?
All that said, I’ve had thoughts of switching to plain old Debian, especially now that I’d consider myself much more experienced and comfortable in Linux. But if I were recommending a distro to a new user, I am one million percent telling them Ubuntu or Mint, depending on how they feel about the Windows UI.
Best way to make the switch is by immersion. I’d also like to add it’s best to do it when you’re not being forced on a timeline, and you have time to deal with it. All my personal machines made the jump 7 years ago and I don’t regret it.
I considered it before I switched from 7 to 10, but since 10 still makes it possible to create an offline account and disable most of the spyware and other bloat, I opted to stay with Windows for another generation of OS. 11 is different though, it’s several steps too far into proprietary hell.
I think the same, Win10 is still “domesticable”, because of this it will be the last Win I’ll use, maybe in Octubre 2025 in dual boot with Linux, for local use. Win 11 is already beginning to take over the user’s PC as its own and Win 12 probably only admitting apps from the MS Store, naturally most proprietary paid apps or free with ads or hidden costs (Free*)
I switched from Win7 to Linux, but you are right, few stuck to their guns on that threat. My only Windows machine now is a work laptop that I have to use for some tasks. Admittedly, even Win 10 is looking good now compared to Win11. MS is doing a bang up job as being consumer antagonists.
I do not care what the fuck you use, just avoid Manjaro, Clear Linux or those weird distros. Use Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, Fedora, anything mainstream, secure and solid. Snaps or not, everyone is in the same camp - pro-usability.
I suggest using either Windows 10 AME offline beyond EOL, or Windows 11 with Ameliorated playbooks, as secondary option to Linux to ease the transition and have a compatible OS for games/software.
Slowly reduce Windows dependence even if it cannot be fully ruled out. If you can use Windows offline, it can be the second best outcome.
Also, consider a separate $20-30 128/256 GB SSD for Windows. Isolation is one of the best things you can do.
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