These three articles are interesting: It looks like there is more movement in #Crossborderrail in #Benelux, #Germany, and #France than I was previously aware. The question for me is what this will mean for broader European rail services:
@Squig re the original toot - the BE-NL news is welcome. But I’m not sure there’s much in terms of wider conclusions to draw. SNCB & NS get along OK. There is adequate rolling stock. The route is busy. I think only Thalys (Eurostar) will be annoyed.
@jon It‘s not only SNCB and NS though, but also Ariva, and now also the Italians.
I just found it interesteing that - after a decade of Thalys basically doing what it wants and NS/SNCB mishandling Fyra - there is so much (very welcome) movement all relatively at once; that‘s what I meant with conclusions.
@Squig Arriva, forget it. They’ve already cancelled. Trenitalia/Qbuzz is serious - but Trenitalia is keen in general. Whether NL-BE is what they try next, we’ll see.
If I understand this correctly (and I studied my BA in Dutch, so…) the Dutch ministry of transport is blocking any new international connection that wants to use Dutch infrastructure, citing end-of-capacity.
The Dutch urgently need to build more and better* train tracks.
*(Better = for trains that can go faster than 100)
@Squig@jon I think they got this wrong. International services with the exception of the Intercity services to Brussels will not be part of the main rail concession which will go to NS. Instead, they will be operated open access – Arriva is free to run their trains. What got refused is the Groningen/Leeuwarden to Zwolle peak hour domestic services.
@PGLux@patrick@Squig@smveerman@coreice Thanks. And they have button operated doors. Reasonable interiors. And a/c. But vMax only 160km/h. Useable by GreenCityTrip as seaters. Convertible to couchettes? Even worthwhile? Not sure…
@PGLux@jon@patrick@Squig@smveerman I am wondering if that is still true. For the sets used in the Benelux train (IC 9200) there is a B in the RIC table but no D or L as far as I know. They used to go to D and L also but since they are used on the HSL the coaches have gone through multiple renovations.
@coreice@PGLux@patrick@Squig@smveerman the key question: what transformers are on board? If they’re 4 voltage then it shouldn’t be hard to (re-)approve them.
@patrick@jon@PGLux@Squig@smveerman In addition to the tooth I posted: I am wondering how it will go with the ICR's. A large part of the fleet has lost it's RIC registration as far as I know. There is no [D] anymore on the RIC table.
@PGLux@patrick@jon@Squig@smveerman With the open access discussions in The Netherlands, maybe they are aiming at providing such services? Or maybe even acquire them for renting like Euro Express does?
@coreice@PGLux@patrick@Squig@smveerman What voltage transformers do these have? 1500v dc, 3000v dc (because Belgium), 50Hz ac because HSL. But 16.7Hz too?
@partim@jon@PGLux@Squig The conceptconcessie HSN doesn’t leave any room on Asd-Ledn-Rtd as far as I understood. And that is part of the requested path.
@partim@jon@PGLux@Squig See https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/brieven_regering/detail?id=2023Z14094&did=2023D33782 - ‘Zo wil Flixtrain in de spits een treindienst aanbieden van Oberhausen via Amsterdam naar Rotterdam. Uit de impactanalyse van ProRail blijkt dat de betreffende (internationale) opentoegangdiensten op het eerste gezicht niet kunnen worden ingepast zonder dat één of meerdere binnenlandse diensten worden opgeheven.’ It may still be possible but chances are slim?
@patrick@jon@PGLux@Squig Thanks for the link! Somehow missed this. So, Trenitalia could go to Berlin via Arnhem (especially since the 10 minute IC service between Utrecht and Arnhem probably won’t come back) and to Paris. Or, well, at least as far as Prorail is involved.
@partim@jon@PGLux@Squig Yes, that looks possible. No idea how easy a track Duisburg-Berlin would be to get though. And Flixtrain could go as far as Asd if wanted but not further.
@PGLux@patrick@jon@Squig One reason for the refusal was that there is no paths from Utrecht to Haarlem via Amsterdam C. And Zandvoort can’t cope with a conventional train at all. Flix doesn’t do control carriages.
@patrick@partim@jon@PGLux it‘s putting pressure on already full German tracks (that are also often clogged due to infrastructure failure, more often than the alternatives, and HS trains can‘t go fast there, it‘s too densely populated with no meaningfull bypasses.
@PGLux@patrick@jon@Squig Ah, sorry. I see now that there are no concrete plans for quadrupling Schiedam – Delft Campus. So, probably not going to happen.
@PGLux@patrick@jon@Squig Sure. But there’s no plans and there’s unlikely to be any new plans. Might change next year, but I am not going to hold my breath.
@partim@PGLux@patrick@jon@Squig A billion euros has been reserved for the railway between Delft and Schiedam in the National Growth Fund, but the question is whether that will survive the elections.
@partim@patrick@jon@PGLux they could do much more, whereas a Thalys train is not gonna be much quicker than ICNG north of Bxl (but yeah, you do need direct trains Ams - Paris I suppose).
@PGLux@partim@patrick@jon i was proposing the opposite. With that many ICs, and their reduced time, 4 trains Amsterdam - Paris might suffice, freeing up Thalys train sets to make Bxl - Zürich or Bxl - Hanover feasible.
@Squig@PGLux@patrick@jon This might change once the class 408 fleet has reached a reasonable size. Berlin – Brussels is very likely a thing on their agenda (and more
reasonable than Berlin – Paris, too.)
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