Not a server, but I do live on tips and I can definitively tell you I’d rather not. Who are these rich, rich waiters you know? A lot of them have to have multiple jobs just to pay the bills, but yeah, they make sOoOoOo much money!
(again anecdotally) nearly every restaurant in New York that’s tried it reverts after a few months. High-end dining servers can clear 6 figures easily after tips, and they’re loath to give that up.
No, they’re not. But a lot of them make pretty good money and they’re not paying taxes on a good chunk of it. I know when I was serving we never claimed more than 30%ish of our cash tips.
I don’t disagree that tipping is awful, exploitative, racist, sexist, and generally shitty. But sometimes the call is coming from inside the house, as it were.
Which is why I don’t order on these things. I hope they’re happy with $0 tip and $0 order because it’s not worth the hassle, the cold food, the wait, and the whining
Cooks don’t care if FOH gets tipped. They typically get paid decently, and I’ve never worked a place that included BOH on tip pools or even tip outs, with the exception of bussers and runners at a couple places.
They aren’t risking their jobs and possible legal problems for something that doesn’t matter to them.
I’m in the US and I don’t tip a bartender for popping a bottle cap. If I’m sitting at the bar and they are making conversation and I’m getting mixed drinks then sure I will tip. But in no way is that similar to a Starbucks experience. Coffee shops operate no different than McDonald’s, do you tip at McDonald’s? No, so why would I tip at a Coffee shop?
Tipping culture is flawed to begin with. I already said I tip at bars if exceptional service is provided, but popping a bottle cap and handing me a beer is not tip worthy. You are not entitled to a tip just because you chose to work at a bar. And using your own logic a coffee shop is considered fast food, so your entire argument just went out the window.
Only assholes don't tip their bartenders when they know it is the primary way they make rent.
I am against tipping culture. I have repeated this in a dozen comments. But not tipping does not end tipping culture or hurt businesses. It only hurts the person serving you.
If you go to places where tips are expected then it is on you to pay a tip. If you don't want to tip, don't go to bars. You can save plenty of money drinking at home with friends. But to avail yourself of those services and then refuse to uphold the part of the bargain we are all aware of is trashy.
You hate tipping culture so much you refuse to participate, but not so much that you won't give those establishments your money? Please. Splitting hairs over specific cases doesn't change the ridiculous entitlement that comes with this position. You know what is expected, you know these people depend on it, yet you refuse. That's a selfish move. Do not try to sell it as some generous action in a great struggle to end tipping culture or whatever fairytale you choose. We both know you don't believe that it solves the problem.
Did I say I don’t tip at all? No, I said I tip for exceptional service as it should be. You handing me a beer from behind the counter that requires zero effort on your part does not deserve a tip. You pouring me a coffee does not deserve a tip. Also the hypocrisy of calling me entitled while these people think I should be supplementing their income for doing the bare minimum is laughable. If you are not getting paid enough and you require the kindness of strangers to pay your rent then you need to find a better job with stable income. Strike if you have to. Don’t sit here and try to guilt trip people into to paying your wages and then when we do tip you complain it’s not enough.
Sure, if I am staying in the establishment for a bit, they’re serving me repeatedly by themselves in glassware, offering samples of drinks I haven’t tried, making suggestions, etc. I’ll typically tip $1–2 per drink for that.
If a barista served me over a couple hours with nice mugs by themselves, I’d probably tip as well. But if I’m waiting in line, then give an order to one person, and have my name called out later by a different person who serves me a drink in a disposable cup, that’s not like bartending. That’s the model of Chipotle and Subway, and nobody tips at Chipotle or Subway.
Absolutely. If I happen to order a beer at the fair I’m going to tomorrow, I’m not going to tip because that’s beer to go. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone tip in that circumstance.
That's not a bartender/bar scenario, we are way afield of that. If you step into a bar and order a drink, do you ever not tip (aside from the obvious such as really really rude/nasty service)?
Yes, that is a bartender operating out of a portable bar, complete with bar signage. Their point of sale being outdoors rather than in a building does not magically change that.
If I were in an indoor bar that operated like Starbucks, I would not tip. Most do not operate that way, though. The indoor bars I have gone to all operated like traditional bars, so I’ve tipped there.
Dude come on. You keep dancing around this. I am talking about a standard-fare bar, what everyone considers them to be. Generally a dedicated space that serves alcohol with a year-round license. The last sentence you wrote is clearly what I am talking about. So yes, you do tip at bars for a beer.
The point is, did a bartender exert any more effort pulling out a beer and popping a bottle cap and handing it to you then somebody who made you a coffee?
Tipping at coffee shops is pretty culturally standard. I understand why you do not, but I am only trying to point out that whenever we start saying “I tip these people but not those people,” when clearly they all work a job that depends on tips to make it work, you’re just being inconsistent and are punishing one group arbitrarily over another.
No, as I explained in my very first reply, bars are part of the full service model, like sit-down restaurants. Full service establishments get tips.
Coffee shops are a pickup model, like fast food. Pickup establishments get tip jars.
As I said, if I’m at a bar using the pickup model, I don’t tip. If I’m at a coffee shop using the full service model, I tip. But I’ve never been at such a coffee shop, so the point is moot.
Find me one and I’ll gladly tip. I tip based on service model, which is 100% consistent.
“stiffing people” is language that implies they are entitled to the tip, which they are not as it’s a tip. Expecting a tip is falling victim to the propaganda that enables employers to maintain low wages. By continuing to tip because “that’s what people do” you’re only further cementing this culture.
If more people refrained from tipping or tipping excessively when not appropriate, then employers would have to increase wages. That’s how to solve the problem.
When I tip, I tip 20%, but I’m not going to begin tipping at a grocery store or getting a coffee unless it’s a small, local establishment.
But most people don’t so your individual effort without any effort to bring more people on board is you pretending that you’re somehow hurting employers, which you aren’t.
Why would you tip for a coffee? You make me stand in line to order, stand against the wall to wait for my drink, and you want me to give you more than the $5 you’re already charging for a latte? It’s insane.
Don’t worry though, I don’t stiff the baristas. I make better lattes at home.
It’s a nice sentiment, but the response is almost always something like “there are many doors in this building that you are free to use. Don’t let it hit your ass on the way out.”
Recently a coworker had a meeting about potential raises as he hadn’t received one in 5 years. They gave him $1/hr raise… for FIVE YEARS. They basically said “take the crumbs or fuck off.”
I’m baffled that this isn’t already a common thing in that industry. I mean that. I really do.
Everyone who has a job like that is screwing themselves over if they don’t have a union, imo. Unions help you get the good shit, like proper wages, paid sick days, paid vacation days, medical coverage, and more.
You’re only really hurting yourself if you forego unions for the sake of convenience. Maybe it’s a small fee per month, and maaaybe you might have to spend a couple hours over a few weekends to vote/negotiate/ratify, but it will be worth it if you find a good union.
They fight in your corner, and will usually even help you with lawyers, if they don’t already fully provide them for you. This can be very valuable if you don’t earn a ton of money and your employer happens to be an unreasonable arse.
This is a big problem with the growing popularity of service fees. Instead of raising wages employers are adding service fees to push labor costs on to the customer; which is already what tipping is. So, they raise the cost of goods for more profits, add service fees to increase wages without increasing labor costs, and then the customer has to decide if they’re going to top or not. It’s a hell of a decision because the worker and the customer are both already getting fucked, and the customer then has to decide which one of them is gonna get a little more fucked than the other.
Yep. They are basically redirecting the employee’s frustration with low pay onto the customers. Not making enough money?..let’s blame the customers and not who I work for.
Labor costs are already entirely on the customer. Employers don't pay their employees with money that grew on trees; they're paying with a chunk of the business revenue, all of which originated from the customers to begin with. There's no functional difference in the finances between abolishing tipping but bumping up all your prices or maintaining tipping, except that tipping represents one additional exchange of money, and people don't like that. When people have already decided to buy something, it feels bad to be asked for money a second time, even if, in the alternative situation where that expense was included in the original price, they'd be spending the same amount of money.
An incredibly common complaint when people discuss tips is the perceived injustice of having to pay employees' wages when the onus of that should be on the employer. It's literally been brought up in this thread multiple times, including the comment I replied to.
So no, I'm not actually that convinced that people really understand it. While there is a social and psychological difference in tips vs raised prices that is meaningful, the economics are essentially the same, so appealing to some sense of economic justice really doesn't make sense. People continuously talk about how employers simply need to abolish tipping and pay their workers more, seemingly unaware that that would be directly financed by higher prices roughly equal to the tips they're already paying.
When people have already decided to buy something, it feels bad to be asked for money a second time
Sounds like a functional difference to me that impacts the transaction. And the psychology involved is more than that because most people are manipulated by the up front prices and don’t properly factor in the more hidden secondary fees. Not to mention that when it comes to tips this second ask is technically voluntary and just against social and moral expectations to refuse, so it essentially rewards the people who don’t care about the employees and refuse it.
It is meaningful, I agree, but the objections should be on that basis, not that tipping represents some kind of gross economic injustice. I think, fundamentally, being asked for money feels bad, and people are trying to re-interpret that as some kind of injustice imposed on them, rather than acknowledging that it's just a slightly different and mildly annoying way to distribute essentially the same cost. When you actually poll tipped workers, they tend to be against removing tips because it allows them to make substantially more than a fixed rate would.
I don't want to blame the individual too much, but it's really not that hard to factor in a potential tip into your decision making process, or to simply hit $0 on the iPad if you don't think the interaction merited a tip (no, I'm not going to tip you for ringing up a bag of coffee that I picked up off a shelf at a cafe, for instance). My loose understanding is that customers have started to reduce or decline tips for a lot of these more trivial interactions, so I'd expect some kind of market equilibrium to emerge at some point. It does somewhat represent those more easily guilted or manipulated effectively subsidzing those who aren't, which is perhaps a little iffy, but I'm not really gonna shed any tears over it.
Yeah, I see these mandatory 4% surcharges at restaurants now and it’s like… why not just raise your damn prices? I’m gonna deduct that shit from my 20% tip.
Lots of places are hiring in the US. Maybe not great jobs, but paying more than $2.15/hr. You could argue that too many people have jobs right now - people who normally would be overlooked have been able to get customer service jobs at every business i have to call.
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