EV proponents...I mean fanbois are still in love with China and the slave/child labor in the Congo. Nothing says "I love EVs" like genocide, concentration camps, totalitarian regimes, and slave labor of the worst kind.
Nothing says “I love EVs” like genocide, concentration camps, totalitarian regimes, and slave labor of the worst kind.
as opposed to most other production in a capitalist system, which apparently doesn't involve these things...? like, i hope you're a socialist if you're saying this because otherwise this is a toothless (and probably xenophobic!) critique.
Even with the impact of manufacturing the EV, they still breakeven very quickly. They may not be "good for the environment" but they are absolutely better than what we currently have. Can't let perfect be the enemy of good.
I think you, and many others in this thread, should spend some time looking into Lithium mines and Cobalt mines. You might look back on your comments in a few years and cringe.
I can see you have a very stable ego since you think it necessary to delete evidence of being wrong. I'm wrong at least 50% of the time, I don't need to hide that shit.
You're not the first person I've seen use this line to dismiss this exact concern, where does it come from?
Nobody is gunning for perfect, plenty of people are rightly concerned that this is a waste of resources compared to improving public resources to reduce the necessity of cars in the first place.
compared to improving public resources to reduce the necessity of cars in the first place.
We're not going to completely redesign every single American city on any practically useful time scale no matter how many people are in favor of it. If every citizen woke up from a nap today with the realization that it's 100% mandatory to renovate literally every city in the country, we'd still spend 30 years arguing about the best way to implement it.
This whole idea that nothing can—or should—change until we're ready to start the most absolutely extreme solution possible is fucking insane. "Don't vote for Democrats! Overthrow the government and destroy capitalism!" "Don't drive an EV! Level and rebuild every American city!" "Don't build wind farms! Spend that money on research into cold fusion!" Seriously, fuck all the way back off to Reddit with that bullshit.
This whole idea that nothing can—or should—change until we're ready to start the most absolutely extreme solution possible is fucking insane.
Nobody said this, here's an analogy you might understand, you're in Texas and you want to get to Seattle, you hop in the car with your friend and he starts heading toward New York. "We're going the wrong way" you say, "this is a really inefficient use of time and resources". Your friend barks back "at least we're driving, we can't wait at home all day to pick the perfect direction ".
You guys are the friend, the response is ridiculous because nobody suggested to wait, or that a perfect route was needed, just that the way you want to go is ludicrous.
You're on this thread arguing against supporting EVs and proposing that we should be completely gutting the current infrastructure of every American city instead. YOU SAID THAT. Here, I'll quote it for you again, so you remember where you set the goalposts:
Nobody is gunning for perfect, plenty of people are rightly concerned that this is a waste of resources compared to improving public resources to reduce the necessity of cars in the first place.
EVs are "waste of resources" because we should "reduce the necessity of cars in the first place". Just because you're using minimizing, tepid language to describe what ends up being an extreme, radical solution doesn't mean we don't know exactly what you're saying. You're not saying "Don't fund EVs, make more busses that go to rural areas" or "Instead of EVs, we should make more bike lanes", because you know that's dumb; those solutions can exist alongside EVs just fine, and are being funded by entirely different departments/organizations/companies.
The only "reduce the necessity of cars" solution that doesn't work with increasing EV access are things like "15 minute cities" (which are fine, they'll just never happen at scale) and other shit that rips up automobile infrastructure entirely and replaces it with utopian walkable/bikeable Netherlands-style cities.
You're on this thread arguing against supporting EVs and proposing that we should be completely gutting the current infrastructure of every American city instead. YOU SAID THAT.
If I said that you would be able to quote it, but you can't, because what you want me to have said to justify your outrage isn't what anyone has ever said. You're making things up to protect your fragile opinions.
Just because you're using minimizing, tepid language to describe what ends up being an extreme, radical solution doesn't mean we don't know exactly what you're saying.
It's not radical, it's the norm in most countries.
See, an achievable norm, you say so yourself in referencing a real place that currently exists as though it's something out of star trek. The mental gymnastics here is staggering.
See, an achievable norm, you say so yourself in referencing a real place that currently exists as though it's something out of star trek. The mental gymnastics here is staggering.
So, yes. You are saying the only solution is to rip up all the asphalt in Houston and rebuild it as New-New Amsterdam. And then do it again, a couple thousand times, for every car-centered city in the country. And therefore EVs shouldn't exist.
"Driven by his ridiculous regulations, electric cars will kill more than half of U.S. auto jobs and decimate the suppliers that they decimated already — decimate the suppliers and it’s going to decimate your jobs and it’s going to decimate more than anybody else, the state of Michigan. It’s is going to be decimation. It’s going to be at a level that that people can’t even imagine. The state of Michigan is going to be decimation. It’s going to be at a level that that people can’t even imagine.”
Oakland County is where nearly all the Michigan auto executives live (and nearly all vote Republican). They are pushing the accelerated move to EVs based on market and regulatory conditions worldwide so their companies can stay in business into the future. Pretty amazing that TheDonald chose this particular venue - a fundraiser - to piss on their shoes…
With Michigan being a pretty competitive state, and the unions being largely Democrat, I assume this is his pitch to try to pry some of those union voters away by scaring them about their jobs.
And yeah, decimate. "I do not think this word means what you think it means."
Blue collar workers in Michigan are not the Blue Wall they once were (just over half ~56% voted for Biden over Trump in 2020, better than what Hillary got at ~53% - but in the good old days, that would have been close to 100%) And they’re <15% of those who are employed in the state now compared to >25% as recently as 1989.
He claims environmental regulations are going to decimate (he must have just learned the word because he used it about 10 times) Michigan's auto industry, but Rivian manufactures in Michigan, among other places, and all the big US auto makers have electric vehicles.
He says Michigan doesn't make electric vehicles, but China does. So instead of encouraging development of products that will keep our auto industry globally competitive, he wants to eliminate regulations so auto makers can lazily continue making ICE vehicles and stagnate technologically. Real big brain stuff.
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