The public is the King in a democracy.

mukt, 1 month ago

Indian constitution isn’t even ratified by voters. It was written and adopted by a British era legislature. This is the reason Indian system it is top down and has so many British legacy features.

The British legacy is so hard to get rid off that even renaming of metropolitan cities (Bombay, Calcutta, Madras, Bamgalore, etc) was done after 50+ years of independence.

And finally, the quoted write up is in British language… which is not the language of desi voters, and will never be. It is the language of British, and the Indian elite who have some standing in this legacy system.

tesseract, 1 month ago (edited 1 month ago)

I don’t know what you’re getting at, but the Indian constitution is the last vestige of civilization there is in India. Some people want to replace it with a theocracy. If you’re implying that’s what India’s citizens want, that’s a complete mischaracterization. Only deranged and brain washed people would want that. Innocent people who have no say in it - especially the next generation, will be the biggest losers in such a draconian change.

And finally, the quoted write up is in British language… which is not the language of desi voters, and will never be.

It’s better than pretending that Hindi is the national language. What we have right now is a violation of the federal system of India where one language - Hindi, is given importance over all the other regional languages, ultimately translating to an undue advantage for Hindi speakers. It has already started to feel like the rest of India is a colony of Hindi speaking states. It’s better to have a language from a colonial past, rather than the language of active colonizers.

mukt, 1 month ago

I don’t know what you’re getting at, but the Indian constitution is the last vestige of civilization there is in India.

Good sir, what exactly do you refer to when you use the word civilization? The white man’s imaginary burden?

Some people want to replace it with a theocracy. If you’re implying that’s what India’s citizens want, that’s a complete mischaracterization. Only deranged and brain washed people would want that. Innocent people who have no say in it - especially the next generation, will be the biggest losers in such a draconian change.

From madarssas, to waqf to AIMPL… India has been acting as a minority theocracy in the garb of secularism. Indian citizens are no longer tolerating that and that scares lots of beneficiaries of british legacy systems. Mere suggestion of uniform law makes so many cultures cry.

And finally, the quoted write up is in British language… which is not the language of desi voters, and will never be.

It’s better than pretending that Hindi is the national language.

Better for whom? For a few thousand families that hold much power since the time of the British, and will not leave their power and priviledge without a fight… and no, this is not about making hindi the national language. It is about seeing a corrupt and oppressive system as what it is, and knocking out its rotting pillars.

What we have right now is a violation of the federal system of India …

Hold that thought. a nation is not its system. Nation is people, and people’s assets. the system and government are not ends, but means of peace and prosperity of the people. and India’s system is no different. It is not an end in itself, and any ideology which begins by making system as an end belongs to the dustbin, not to human brains.

… where one language - Hindi, is given importance over all the other regional languages, …

English is the only language with undue advantage over others. That advantaged must be removed, no matter how hard the old families of power fight it. Hate against Hindi is a bogeyman to defend continuing English. But the days of English are coming to an end. Better push for a multiple language system, if you are scared of Hindi in particular.

… ultimately translating to an undue advantage for Hindi speakers. It has already started to feel like the rest of India is a colony of Hindi speaking states. It’s better to have a language from a colonial past, rather than the language of active colonizers.

Those who want to continue being chained, will continue being chained. And slaves do not get to choose their masters.

British legacy, not just their language, is weakening each decade and a new, more Indian system is emerging. Instead of fighting the emerging system, try to make sure that your own culture/language finds the strongest place in it.

tesseract, 1 month ago

Good sir, what exactly do you refer to when you use the word civilization? The white man’s imaginary burden?

You start right away with a malicious falsehood to start justifying your vile visions. Branding civilized behaviour as white man’s burden is a low effort attempt at discrediting it. You need only common sense and sense of justice to understand what civilized behavior is. But your vested agendas won’t fly if you do.

From madarssas, to waqf to AIMPL… India has been acting as a minority theocracy in the garb of secularism. Indian citizens are no longer tolerating that and that scares lots of beneficiaries of british legacy systems. Mere suggestion of uniform law makes so many cultures cry.

Ha! What a joke! Repeating lies like a Nazi won’t make it true. Hindus aren’t just the majority in India, it isn’t hard to see that only the majority interests are given any priority under the current regime. Yet we see dog whistles like these where you falsely play the victim to justify imposition of more medieval sensibilities.

It is not an end in itself, and any ideology which begins by making system as an end belongs to the dustbin, not to human brains.

This is exactly what you right wingers want, isn’t it? Trash the constitution and replace it with mob law. Your justifications don’t hide the hideous intent behind it.

tesseract, 1 month ago

Good sir, what exactly do you refer to when you use the word civilization? The white man’s imaginary burden?

You start right away with a malicious falsehood to start justifying your uncivilized ambitions. Branding civilized behaviour as white man’s burden is a low effort attempt at discrediting it. You need only common sense and sense of justice to understand what civilized behavior is. But your vested agendas won’t fly if you do.

In addition, India’s constitution is a uniquely Indian creation. There is nothing like it in the world. The attempt to stamp it as a vestige of colonial rule is part of a revisionist agenda with vested interests.

From madarssas, to waqf to AIMPL… India has been acting as a minority theocracy in the garb of secularism. Indian citizens are no longer tolerating that and that scares lots of beneficiaries of british legacy systems. Mere suggestion of uniform law makes so many cultures cry.

Ha! What a joke! Repeating lies like a Nazi won’t make it true. Hindus aren’t just the majority in India, it isn’t hard to see that only the majority interests are given any priority under the current regime. Yet we see dog whistles like these where you falsely play the victim to justify imposition of more medieval sensibilities.

It is not an end in itself, and any ideology which begins by making system as an end belongs to the dustbin, not to human brains.

This is exactly what you right wingers want, isn’t it? Trash the constitution and replace it with mob law. Your justifications don’t hide the hideous intent behind it. But such anarchy and might is right policy will backfire in your face, possibly balkanizing the entire nation.

English is the only language with undue advantage over others. That advantaged must be removed, no matter how hard the old families of power fight it.

At least English doesn’t favor anyone in India in particular. All the other options favor one group and relegate the rest to second class citizens - and that is the real reason for this push for Hindi. But there are enough people who know this hideous agenda. Your hopes to replace English is just a pipe dream.

Hate against Hindi is a bogeyman to defend continuing English.

It doesn’t become a bogeyman just because your majesty says so. Hindi gives undue advantage to certain Northern states in governance, parliament, central exams and a lot of others. It’s your language chauvinism that prompts you to brush off those concerns as ‘bogeyman’.

Better push for a multiple language system, if you are scared of Hindi in particular.

The only reason you are pushing for multi language system is because you know it wont happen. It didn’t happen in 75 years and it sure as hell won’t happen under this Hindi supremacist regime. If you haven’t noticed, Hindi imposition on other states has only increased in the past decade with other languages are being sidelined. It’s so condescending and uncharitable to suggest pushing multilanguage policy knowing how improbable it is. So we push for English, not support the agenda of wannabe colonialists.

Those who want to continue being chained, will continue being chained. And slaves do not get to choose their masters.

To the rest of Indians, learning English is freedom, while learning Hindi is a sure shot way to modern day slavery. Your argument holds no water. And we will continue to resist your ambition to be the new age slave masters.

Instead of fighting the emerging system, try to make sure that your own culture/language finds the strongest place in it.

The emerging system of religious animosity, casteist oppression and linguistic hegemony? And we have to beg for our culture and language to survive in it? No thanks! Despite us learning English, our languages and cultures are thriving well in the current system. What we don’t want is a medieval system of cultural imperialism and oppression pushed in the name of nationalism where citizens are arranged into hierarchies of privileges.

mukt, 1 month ago

Good sir, what exactly do you refer to when you use the word civilization? The white man’s imaginary burden?

You start right away with a malicious falsehood to start justifying your uncivilized ambitions.

All I asked here is a question, and suggested the most probable answer in most simple form. You could have given a different answer, but…

Branding civilized behaviour as white man’s burden is a low effort attempt at discrediting it. You need only common sense and sense of justice to understand what civilized behavior is. But your vested agendas won’t fly if you do.

You don’t explain your notion of civilization, but want me to deal with your notion of common sense, justice and civilized behavior.

Why?

In addition, India’s constitution is a uniquely Indian creation. There is nothing like it in the world. The attempt to stamp it as a vestige of colonial rule is part of a revisionist agenda with vested interests.

Shri Ambedkar, unapologetically disagrees:

“As to the accusation that the Draft Constitution has reproduced a good part of the provisions of the Government of India Act, 1935, I make no apologies. There is nothing to be ashamed of in borrowing. It involves no plagiarism. Nobody holds any patent rights in the fundamental ideas of a Constitution….”

There used to be entire chapter worth of material to mug up for exams on which feature of Indian constitution is borrowed from which white country in textbooks.

Did you skip all of that in school?

From madarssas, to waqf to AIMPL… India has been acting as a minority theocracy in the garb of secularism. Indian citizens are no longer tolerating that and that scares lots of beneficiaries of british legacy systems. Mere suggestion of uniform law makes so many cultures cry.

Ha! What a joke! Repeating lies like a Nazi won’t make it true. Hindus aren’t just the majority in India, it isn’t hard to see that only the majority interests are given any priority under the current regime. Yet we see dog whistles like these where you falsely play the victim to justify imposition of more medieval sensibilities.

There. You just lost entire argument by Godwin’s Law. Prepare better for next time.

clot27, 1 month ago

So true, Indian voters need to read this. They also need to learn about the difference between/w parliamentary and presidential form of democracy