Not the best description I have seen. Any wall that can keep someone out can keep someone in. Just have to change the system inside. The big problem, however, is that nobody understands the term communism and applies it to lots of things which are not. A totalitarian state is not communism. And a Christian nationalist state is no longer a democracy.
The big problem, however, is that nobody understands the term communism and applies it to lots of things which are not
I think it’s because terms used in real life often don’t match their definition. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea is not democratic or a republic. The National Socialist Party were not socialist. The Chinese Communist Party allows billionaires to privately own the means of production. Capitalist America regulates, subsidizes, and bails out corporations instead of allowing a free market.
The real world is more nuanced than the terms used to describe it. It doesn’t help that terms like capitalism, communism, democracy, etc, have gone the way of “literally”. It can mean “literally” or it can mean the exact opposite of “literally”; it depends on context.
Communism is an economic system, democracy is a political system. There are examples of democratic socialism and of capitalist dictatorships. Also, the word here is in fact socialism and not communism.
I replied to a similar comment in here. From the context of images, you can understand that the comparison is between Marxism-Leninism and representative democratic constitutional republic. These systems represent the majority of real world implementations of communism and democracy.
The majority of people in this comment section understand this words in the way they like and argue against something that in my opinion has very little in common with the actual meme’s point (that sounds funny, “meme’s point” 😅).
Those words can mean those things, but communism is also used to describe a political system. After all, part of the definition of communism is statelessness which is entirely about the politics and not the economics (source).
Also, just as democracy might be used to describe a political system, it commonly taken to mean liberal democracy, and thus in most contemporary contexts implies an economic system of capitalism.
So I just think it depends on the context what people mean by these terms. Of course you can try to define communism only in economic terms, but since the term is so abused and “inflated” it’s hard to claim it has any singular or absolute meaning.
Depending on who you are talking to, communism has practically opposite meanings, for example, in public schools in the U.S. they teach that communism is when all economic activity is controlled by a centralized state, which is ironically the exact opposite of how Marx defined communism.
I feel like the poster didn’t mean to infer American capitalism is so great we need a wall to slow people down from entering while communism is so shitty they need a wall to prevent people from escaping.
It’s a strangely pro American capitalism meme for lemmy.
There’s also the walls around most Palestinian settlements, the wall that the Dominican Republic is building to stop Haitians from fleeing their country, the walls (fences with barbed wire) in Hungary…
Yeah. My country used to be a capitalist dictatorship in the 60s-80s and it very, very much kept people who disliked it from escaping it, and then tortured them for being “unpatriotic”. And as ICastFist mentioned, there are several other capitalist and even “democratic” countries out there that very much build walls to keep people from leaving, too.
I initially assumed this meme was criticizing capitalism due to pointing out how the rich plunder and oppress the poor (i.e. the US with Latin America, and Europe with Africa and the Middle East), then hoard the profits for themselves while propping up walls to prevent anyone from the places they exploited from getting to also share and experience their wealth and safety nets (i.e. America’s border wall with Mexico, and Europe sinking refugee boats while fanning fascism to pin economic issues on the migrants rather than the capitalists themselves), but reading the OP’s replies it seems the meme was actually made in defense of capitalism…?
Honestly, between this and the “you’d be morally obligated to vote for 99% Hitler” nonsense, neoliberals seem to be really, really bad at defending their own ideology, lol
It doesn’t imply that. It says that (some) capitalist states build walls to keep refugees out (like the US and in a way the EU) while (some) communist states build walls to keep (potential) refugees in (like the GDR)
Agreed. And the (probably unintended) irony is that the Berlin Wall was ostensibly built in order to keep the capitalists out. Be careful what you wish for, especially when it’s a wall. They work both ways.
You don’t really believe the propaganda of the “Antifaschistischer Schutzwall”. The wall was always to keep GDR citizens in.
Nobody ever had the intention to keep capitalists out.
In my opinion, oppression is coming whether we like it or not. The resource depletion and overconsumption of global capitalism is destroying our ecosystems. We can choose degrowth and a planned economy under socialism, or continued environmental damage under fascism. Our current way of living is unsustainable. We need to read up and understand the choices, or the decisions for our futures will be made for us.
What we need is a culture shift, not oppression. I refuse to believe mankind is not capable of improving their collective behavior except under threat of violence - In fact, I think such violence would be counterproductive if the goal is to live in harmony with planetary limits. Degrowth cannot be imposed. Society must want it. Stop being mindless consumers. We can’t make that happen by the barrel of a gun. Peace must be included
Climate change will not afford us the time to shift culturally. Soon, agricultural failures, floods, droughts and mass migration are going to tax resources. We need to study and understand these disparate systems to navigate the coming crises. We’re not going to do it, but I like to think positively.
Suffering can be alleviated but not eliminated. I talk about oppression, which is domination of one group over another, with violence. This happens in fascism but historically also with (ML) communism. I’m saying that using the power of the state to FORCE people to change their ways, will be counterproductive. I’m on board with degrowth, but something positive must replace the consumerism.
The miscommunication is your misunderstanding of the word oppression in relation to ML. I’m talking about a specific problem with the ML “solution” to climate change. I don’t have all the answers, but I know ML only makes things worse for everyone.
I would rather live under a Marxist-Leninist government with a planned economy that gives us a chance to mitigate climate catastrophe. The current capitalist governments aren’t even bothered by climate change. You’ve invented a boogeyman in Marxist-Leninism so that you don’t have to confront the current crisis of capitalism. When the world crumbles with overconsumption from capitalism, will your last words be, “At least we didn’t try the disastrous Marxist-Leninism?”
It’s about harm reduction and the lesser- evil. 👿 Capitalism is the greater harm to the planet. Socialism/Anarchism/Marxist-Leninism involve planned economies that can help us transition to more sustainable energy systems. It’s pragmatism.
also, there are indeed lots of books with other names. Millions and millions of books with other names. You should visit a library sometime. Will blow your mind.
🤯 just went to a library and there really are many books. Not millions but I found out about other libraries and combined this might be true.
No, seriously, I meant other books by the author. And I didn’t find anything about the book online so I thought maybe you confused something but I obviously believe you when you say the book exists.
It’s just a shitpost, bro, don’t think about it, let me just make a shitpost covering a political topic, I’m not making a statement just a shitpost, bro.
According to Xi, “the consolidation and development of the socialist system will require its own long period of history… it will require the tireless struggle of generations, up to ten generations.” Source
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive for socialism with American characteristics. /s
Yeah but what is it trying to say? Is it just saying democracy is good because other people want to be a part of it? Why is it even comparing communism and democracy? Why is it using such a terrible example for communism? Why does it think that this observation is useful for making any kind of point even if it were accurate?
Add comment