Potentially related, not sure: does anyone know how I can get touchscreen scrolling working in Firefox on a fresh Ubuntu 23.10 install? Currently it’s just selecting text and it’s driving me up the proverbial wall. Googling was unsuccessful.
Not sure if Firefox supports that… For what I remember, PostmarketOS, Ubuntu touch and other mobile linux distros actually patch Firefox for allowing that behaviour
Does this mean I can stop setting MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND?
Or is it just enabling the compilation of Wayland sections (which I thought happened a while ago?)
And it’s thanks to the work of those people that it has finally made it upstream, specially Fedora’s Martin Stránský (who has been doing tons of work on Firefox, including making Fedora the first distro to ship Firefox with VA-API enabled by default).
Silly question but does that include Fedora spins like the KDE spin? I think the last time I checked Firefox it still said it was running through XWayland (although that was a while ago)
I use my Linux PC for gaming. Last time I tried Steam/Nvidia with Wayland I could only get one game to launch. So hopefully those 2 will work on making Wayland happen for us.
I was waiting for Nvidia drivers 545 to try again, but I checked last weekend and Ubuntu still had 535 drivers. I hear Nvidia did a lot of fixes for wayland on the new drivers.
When I first attempted to give Wayland a try, it just wouldn’t work. Did some troubleshooting but stuck with X11 for the time being.
About a month ago I gave logging into a Wayland session a try on a whim, and it just worked. Everything was fine, only difference was a change is mouse sensitivity.
There’s a lot of other stuff where Wayland improves the experience. Pretty much everything hotplug works to some extend on X, but it’s all stuff that got bolted on later. Hotplugging an input device with a custom keymap? You probably can get it working somewhat reliably by having udev triggers call your xmodmap scripts - or just use a Wayland compositor handling that.
Similar with xrandr - works a lot of the time nowadays, but still a compositor just dealing with that provides a nicer experience.
Plus it stops clients from doing stupid things - changing resolutions, moving windows around or messing up what is focused is also a thing of the past.
I have always liked Nvidia for years. When I moved to Linux, the Nvidia drivers have been working great on X11. I am currently playing Baldur's Gate 3 and I have DLSS 2 turned on and get frame rates at 100. Looks great and awesome game. But I know Wayland is the future and want Nvidia to work well with it and Steam. I will get an AMD if I have to but my card is still great and I am not looking for a new one yet.
I suppose it explains why people have a bad attitude about Wayland when tools providing useful functionality are described as trojans.
X11 can (…mostly…) have great security by just providing a suitable X Security module to it. It just seems it wasn’t considered that big of an issue that anyone bothered. Nokia Maemo/Meego used to rock such a module.
That’s a feature, stop buying hardware from vendors that treat GNU/Linux and *BSD users as second-class citizens and locks them into proprietary drivers.
Games are developed for X11. And if you run a game on Wayland, performance is subpar due to things like forced vsync. Only recently, some Wayland implementations (like KDE KWin) let you disable that.
That’s a feature, stop buying hardware from vendors that treat GNU/Linux and *BSD users as second-class citizens and locks them into proprietary drivers.
Nowadays I buy a new graphics card maybe twice a decade. I’m not changing the card for software.
Also, we’re all using proprietary hardware. Be serious. If you tried to never use anything proprietary you’d never use anything. You’re using like a dozen of them right now.
Sure, I have proprietary bits on my kernel and my AMD GPU needs proprietary firmware loaded to work, but that’s a hell lot different than the situation NVIDIA shoves users into. It’s one thing to have small proprietary components that don’t bother me or break my workflow, it’s another to have black box drivers that can bork my setup if I dare to update my packages.
Most points are just complaining that tools specifically designed for X don’t work on Wayland. That’s like hanging onto your childhood pants and complaining they don’t fit anymore.
And one of the first points is how Wayland crash will bring down all running applications - yep, just like on X11! But it’s somehow Wayland’s fault.
Besides the fact that on Wayland running apps can survive a compositor crash (I think new KDE will have that feature), which I doubt can be done on X11.
A WM crash does not bring down all the other applications… but an X11 server crash definitely does!
In wayland they are the same program (a.k.a. the compositor). User applications can be designed to survive a compositor crash, though many are not able yet
An X session depends on the main user process. Unless a DE picks the compositor as the main process then no, a compositor crash won’t affect the session. But they don’t do that, for obvious reasons, since the compositor is just a feature among others. They typically have a special program that takes that role, for example xfce4-session.
And one of the first points is how Wayland crash will bring down all running applications - yep, just like on X11! But it’s somehow Wayland’s fault.
They said that a Wayland window manager will bring down all apps, not a Wayland crash. Which, again, is not like it works on X, as I explained above. The window manager on X, like the compositor, is just another feature. If it crashes it just gets replaced and the session continues.
But many of those are actively used by people. I use screen recording, screen sharing, global menus, key automation and window automation every day. Even if I wanted to use Wayland I couldn’t. What exactly is it that you want me to do?
Some of those arguments are legit but like half is complaining about wayland being fundamentally different to xorg and obviously you cannot use straight xorg apps on it.
“Linux is inferior because it breaks all my powershell scripts and all my windows only apps. Don’t use linux.”
I mean, to play devil’s advocate here - if functionality that you need is all of a sudden swept out from under you then it doesn’t matter from an end user perspective if it’s not the intended design for Wayland - to the user, Wayland is broken in that regard.
A better equivalent would be if an application you used every day for the last 10 years all of a sudden has an update that kills features you used because that’s no longer part of the dev(s) vision. Or headphone jacks on phones. Or whatever that weird thing with Teslas where they disabled a sensor in an OTA update and replaced it with some other solution(?).
Or to modify the example you put, if Windows killed the cmd shell and only left powershell in a Windows Update.
I have an application that I need to use at work which will never fit Wayland’s design, short of me either finding a new job, keeping a Windows install around, or using a really old version of Linux around in a VM when X11 has completely disappeared from all distros (which won’t really work) - there will be nothing that I can do about it on the Wayland side because it’s highly unlikely the devs will update it to be compatible (since it’s a shock that they actually even had Linux support in the first place).
As it is, I currently just pop into an X11 session whenever I’m on working hours, it will suck that I can’t do that with Fedora come next release when they completely drop X from the repos.
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