Lying when you argue will get you nothing but ire. No regrets there, that’s how it should be. If centrists weren’t such fucking liars we could have an actual conversation but look where are. You are like this, a lying snake, so no we cannot. I gave up on that years ago. You all broke me by proudly putting trump in office. And no I don’t care about your inevitable claim to not be American. Centrists did this.
Dude, seriously don’t assume I’m a centrist. What the fuck is wrong with you lumping me in and then calling me a lying snake. I didn’t put a fucking Trump in office and I didn’t fucking break you. Stop assuming such nonsense. I’m just sick of low effort attacks that are laden with assumptions. God fuck in the morning covered in bacon and cheese and stapled to a tiny cross, STOP ASSUMING SHIT. Edit: surprise, assumer, I’m from the us. No denials here.
Dude, what’s the point? Do you think you can convince a disingenuous memer that the far left isn’t the social democrats? He’s already painted you as the soyjack so he has won. The pigeon’s knocked over the pieces and shit on the board, you can’t checkmate that. It’s like arguing with a teenager on Discord, you can’t beat their collection of 17 second videos designed to make it look like you’re dumb without actually saying why.
“Left wing extremist; right wing extremist - I see no difference.”, “For sure there is one”, says the kangaroo, “left extremists burn cars, right extremists burn foreigners. And this makes the left extremists worse, because the car could belong to me. Foreigners, on the other hand, I don’t own any”
German comedian Marc Uwe Kling in “the Kangaroo Chronicles”
Far right: “while we’re at it we’re going to cut taxes for the ultra rich and corporations, and raise taxes on everyone else. Trickle down economics hasn’t failed as a model, it just needs 75 years to start trickling. And we’re gonna make it harder for people to vote and harder for people to trust elections because that’s our only chance of winning with a garbage platform that does nothing to benefit 90% of you.”
Average republican voter: DURR SOUNDS GOOD TO ME, JUS MAKE SUR U WAVE TH’MURKIN FLAG AND CALL THEM LIBRALS FAGS WHILE YER AT IT
Ok, everybody. Let’s take a deep breath, calm down a little, and talk about how almost all kiddie fuckers are white male heterosexual youth pastors or sports coaches.
I’m a centrist who hates extremists on both sides. I’m also not a transphobe like this comic would lead you to believe.
I usually end up voting democrat because the republicans are more extremist, but democrats definitely aren’t solely about getting everyone’s needs met. I’ve seen democrats want to smash unions, leverage insider trading solely for their own benefit, and introduce draconian drug laws.
This bad tweet creates a straw man out of every group. It’s a great example of why everyone should look at issues individually and not play politics like it’s some stupid sports game where your team is always right and the other team is always wrong. This style of thinking is why Republicans vote down every Democratic idea simply because “they’re on the other team”. It’s a really low IQ take.
I’m a centrist who hates extremists on both sides.
I’m just looking for an explanation of what constitute “extremes”. Because I get mailers from right-wing organizers warning me of transgender book clubs and full defunding of the police happening next election cycle if I don’t immediately throw my support behind the local GOP. But the folks on the far-left in my home town of Houston are only “radical” in the sense that they keep handing out food to homeless people via “Food Not Bombs” despite the city sticking volunteers with $2000 ordinance violations for being an illegal food vendor.
This bad tweet creates a straw man out of every group.
Get off Twitter. Touch grass. Go down to your actual in-person city council events and find out what the people on each end of the political spectrum are discussing right now.
Again, coming back to my home town of Houston, the HISD school board has been fully co-opted by the state government. One of the big issues in local politics right now is how to respond. Right-wing municipal leaders are running cover for the governor’s decision and promoting judges/legislators in line with the state takeover. They’re defending moves to cut in-school food programs, fire rebellious teachers, and spend enormous amounts of money converting libraries into detention facilities for “low-performing” students. The liberals and centrists are dithering and throwing up their hands, insistent that they have no power to do anything in the face of the state’s takeover. Meanwhile, the Far Left folks are attempting to organize teachers and parents into an effective political opposition, to stage protests and walk-outs when administrators abuse their authority, and to formulate community education guidelines in line with a properly egalitarian system.
These are my “Far Right” / “Centrist” / “Far Left” options. Not randos with goofy profile pictures on some social media site, pretending to be Chad Right or Woke Left. But a bunch of retirees down at the public library handing out sandwiches versus the cops hassling them and shutting down their operation. Or the teachers trying to get class sizes down under 30 kids per classroom and ending the obnoxious Pearson-sponsored testing regimes versus some state-appointed administrators who have all come directly from the real estate sector and only care about making the school district lucrative to local business interests.
The folks in the middle - the ones with actual authority, anyway - are consistently do-nothings, more focused on self-promotion than any kind of policy goals and unwilling to stick their necks out on anything even remotely controversial for fear of a social backlash.
I’m just looking for an explanation of what constitute “extremes”.
Centrist here. Far right is pretty easy and you’ve identified them. Far left can be seen in communities such as FuckCars. Another would be either recommendations for the government to build housing for everyone in city centers, taking over active (or inactive) real estate on the scale of millions. Elimination of all carbon-based fuels. Shuttering of the entire military. Since I’m a centrist I will tell you that those are fine ideals, just as educing regulations to the bare minimum of recommendations and balancing the national budget are excellent goals. None of them are practical because the leftist ones are either unworkable financially or would throw the economy into a black hole and the right ones are unworkable because there are way to many opportunistic motherfuckers out there that would poison their own mother to make an extra dollar or would throw the economy into a black hole.
I’m not in politics because I can’t fucking afford to be. I would likely be a shoo-in for the local council. I was approached by the mayor and an existing councilman to do so. In researching it, I’d be looking at 500-700 hours a year of unpaid time. My neighbor is on the School Board. That’s about 3/4 of the hours of Town Council, but it’s a brutal cage match every meeting. For no reimbursement. Even at the state level, representatives are paid about $17k/yr and offers no benefits. That’s less than 1/3 of what I’m paying to send my kid to college. Heck, my health insurance - with a $13k deductible - is $21k per year. And I’m just not corrupt enough to use a position like that to grift money on the side.
do-nothings, more focused on self-promotion than any kind of policy goal
Yeah, those aren’t centrists. Those are narcissist’s who don’t otherwise have an extreme political (usually religious) agenda. A lack of political or societal ideals is not the same as a having centrist or moderate set of ideals.
I've yet to see literally any elected Democrat representative in the US suggest any of those "extremes" you came up with. On the other hand, the GOP is very open about their extreme positions.
“Get everyone’s needs met” is a core leftist idea, so what you’ve actually argued is that Democrats aren’t particularly left wing.
I don’t like saying they’re conservative, either. That’s a little too simplistic. Democrats tend to umbrella over a lot of different groups. But the core group isn’t particularly leftist.
That's the far left as defined by the far right. The actual far left likes to pretend that Stalin did nothing wrong and that nothing happened in Tienanmen Square.
Im starting to think it was a mistake comming to lemmy thinking there was gonna be a decent discucion, the tankies where probably a sign of it i guess, theres no way most of them arent edgy tenagers or ccp shills, the same goes for you guys that defend political parties (diference being democrat and republican shills). They dont have your best interests in mind and whant you figthing over their bs culture wars so that you dont pay attention to the real corrupt shit that benefits no one but themselves and their rich friends.
And no, there isnt a middle point between genocide and not genocide and you know that that isnt what is being argued by people that disagree with you (at least not in good faith admidetly). This feels more like lashing out against anyone that disagrees with your viewpoints, no matter if they are the other team or not even playing in any of them, or maybe its an attempt to group anyone that disagrees with some of your viewpoints (or at least those that are percieved as absolute truth by the “left” that other people question in good faith) into the other team that you dont like so that you justify lashing out aginst them.
Yeah. I don’t know if the meme originates from the US, but it seems so. Where I’m from, centrist and much of the right would consider this “far-left” view an obvious norm.
When same-sex marriage was voted in, all but one state voted over 60% Yes (some over 70%), despite much of the nation having voted in a right-wing government just two months earlier.
The meme’s “far-left” view is a start, but it’s not a 21st century far-left.
I can't tell which direction this is posted from, but if you take the bird's perspective (how you generally refer to limbs: the owner's perspective) the top one is the left wing.
Centrists are centrists 99% of the time because of culture wars. They agree with some things like universal health care on occasion, but they also really really hate trans people. It always boils down to hate when you shift to the right. Every fucking time. They’ll lie and claim that’s not the case, but deep down they know it’s hate. They’re just ashamed to admit it.
I don’t hate trans people. No one with a penis is going to use the same bathroom or changing room as my daughter.
It’s not a discussion.
Despite otherwise treating trans people with respect and dignity, that’s one of my only views that conflicts with the hard left…therefore I’m a demon terf that hates trans people.
I shrug…I’m not voting R, but it makes it hard as hell to vote D.
You really pay attention to other people’s genitals in the bathroom? Maybe you are the one who shouldn’t be allowed in public bathrooms. I feel uncomfortable sharing the bathroom with someone who is obssessed with genitals as you are.
I agree you are vile because we are not dangerous or subhuman. Also trust me you don’t want trans guys like me using the women’s restroom because I’ll clog all the toilets with my shits. Hell I’ll even prep by going to Chipotle first
You’re saying that, because you have decided that trans people are sexual predators, because you tell yourself stories where trans women are men who rape children, we should put ourselves in the legitimate danger of being a women in a men’s bathroom. The last time I was in a men’s room, a teenage boy turned around at the door because he was so sure he was in the wrong place. That was five years ago. If you had a son, you wouldn’t be comfortable with me using the same bathroom as him. If you had two children of different genders, you would be uncomfortable with me using any bathroom. Because I am clearly a woman, but you have also decided that I am a man who will hurt your daughter. Stop playing stupid games and say you don’t want trans people in public.
I’m pretty sure you’re projecting all that at this point.
Asking you to wait to use the restroom isn’t implying any of that. It’s simply decorum that has been decided upon by society. If it’s that important to you to disregard that, it does indeed call into question your judgement on more sensitive matters.
You don’t get to decide an entire group of people can’t use the fucking restroom that’s right for them just because you imagine we’re all predators. No one is after you and your ugly kids except priests
Waiting to use the restroom because you have decided that I am a sexual predator. I can’t hardly stand all the fucking respect and dignity. Literally nobody has ever been afraid of me in the bathroom with their children because I pass as a cis woman. For all you know, I’ve been in the restroom with your daughter multiple times. Same with thousands of other trans women well into transition. So how will you enforce your plan of discrimination? Are you going to do genital checks or gender interviews of every woman who enters the same bathroom as your daughter? Because that’s the only way you’re going to filter me out.
Oh I know, this is far from my first rodeo. I just think it’s important to for others who may be on the fence see that they fall apart. You don’t debate for the person you’re talking to, if they care enough to comment they’re probably past the point of convincing, you debate for the people who are reading and may be unsure of their feelings.
Shut the fuck up. You hate trans people. This is code for trans people are gonna rape your daughter. This is code for trans women are men who rape. This is base, elementary transphobia. This is saying that your position that trans women are sexual predators is more important and real than the fucking documented fact that trans women are sexually victimized in men’s bathrooms. You aren’t treating trans people with dignity or respect. You’re telling me to put myself in danger because you have decided that I am a sexual threat to your child. Fuck you. You hate trans people. Shut the fuck up.
So you are admitting that you disagree with science, that trans women are not women to you? Because trans women aren’t men in dresses, but transphobes, people who hate trans people, say that we are. You’re saying that, because men have a history of raping people in war, a certain type of woman you hate can’t use the fucking bathroom. Men who want to rape your daughter are going to do it whether or not it’s fucking legal or normalized. If this was about protecting your daughter, this wouldn’t be on your fucking radar, because it doesn’t fucking happen. Men aren’t dressing up as women to rape little girls. That is a fiction created to attack trans people. You are repeating it because your hate trans people. You are telling me, again, that I should put myself in legitimate danger because of a fiction that states that I am the dangerous one. Fuck motherfucker, you can’t distinguish me from a cis woman without a conversation. And if I didn’t smoke so much weed, I’d voice pass and you would be entirely unable to distinguish me from a cis woman.
Ahh yes, the least transphobic centrist. Outwardly refusing to use pronouns displayed for all to see, while having an argument about how he’s definitely not a transphobe.
I don’t hate trans people. No one with a penis is going to use the same bathroom or changing room as my daughter.
Laws forcing trans people to use the bathroom of their born gender will force transmen to use a woman’s room, effectively forcing people with a penis to use the same bathroom as your daughter.
Probably by talking to centrists, I’ve come to a similar conclusion. Every single centrist I’ve talked to in person either refuses to use preferred pronouns, are outwardly disgusted by the idea of a trans woman, dont want them using their preferred bathroom, or are afraid of “trans indoctrination” in school (they dont want trans people mentioned or talked about in any class context). Idk, i know anecdotes arent strong evidence, but based on my experience, i don’t think they pulled this conclusion from nowhere.
To be fair to the other commenter, the people who you had interactions with are actually Bona Fide, Shonuff Nazis. They claim to be “centrists” to avoid being ostracized by decent people.
Well fascists love that dichotmy: The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak."
They make the enemy seem strong so they can rally support to fight (see: genocide) them. And they make them out as weak so they can be held in contempt and shown that the fascists are truly the strongest and deserve to rule. This contradiction is not analyzed by those supporting it. And is similar to "Doublethink" from 1984.
You’re seriously going to paint every single centrist with the “transphobe” brush?
I think you’ll find that most centrists are broadly in support of trans people and that if they have any objections at all, they’ll be a few minor snagging points like mtf people in women’s sports, women’s toilets/changing rooms and the idea of making irreversible changes to the body of a child.
People like you are self defeating, sometimes it seems that you’re desperate to be a victim. You make mountains out of molehills and create divisions where there are none, but worst of all, you actively alienate people who are potentially your allies.
Edit: down votes away, until I see someone brave enough to make a counter point, I’ll just assume that the truth hurts. It’s much easier to say that you don’t like someone’s opinion than to explain why
“Broadly in support of trans people” but also forcing us to use changing rooms and toilets that also often put us in danger and lead many of us to be able to spend less time in public because the minute we need to pee someone is very likely going to yell at us, smack us (usually women) or stalk us to a secondary location (usually men) because people feel empowered to treat us all like perverts and make our safety based decisions of what the path of least resistance a question a matter of technicality…
What the heck does “broadly support” mean in this context? Ambivalence to one’s existence, quality of life issues and safety because one doesn’t want to bother isn’t support.
I don’t doubt that transphobia is real and prevalent. What I’m saying is that the claim that an extremely large and diverse demographic as strongly prejudiced against trans people isn’t only false, but entirely unhelpful to the goal of equality that trans people and their allies are fighting for.
You said centrists aren’t transphobic, and proceeded to list a bunch of transphobic views a centrist may hold. You’re kind of proving the point that they are obsessed with culture war BS. They will vote against trans rights if it makes them feel icky.
I didn’t say that it’s a view that every centrist holds or even claim that they’re more common than not, nor did I say that they’re view points exclusive to centrists.
Your comment is typical of someone that has already chosen their conclusion and will only consider evidence that supports it.
You listed them as non-transphobic, nuanced points one might hold. My point was just that they are transphobic views. I didn’t say it was a view every centrist holds, but one a centrist MAY hold.
A lot of people who would otherwise say they respect trans people, would hold any of the transphobic views you listed and gladly vote against their interests.
Maybe I got you wrong. Because I think we’re at the crux of the issue now.
Imagine you were broadly in support of trans people and full equality, but had some hesitations about the issues mentioned prior. Then a trans person or more usually a trans ally shouts “transphobe!!!”, instead of trying to educate or debate in good faith.
Such a person might now think, “well a trans person says I’m a transphobe, I thought I wasn’t but they probably know best”, they may feel dejected and a potential ally has been turned into a person that at best won’t touch the subject with a barge pole and at worst a legit transphobe.
I also feel it’s quite important to state that the term transphobe implies a strong prejudice, I don’t think a few minor sticking points implies a strong prejudice or even a minor prejudice. It can be as simple as a misunderstanding.
And the others that dont are eggs i.e. are trans people in secret but just dont know it yet aye?
This is why we cant have nice things.
Its reverse gatekeeping.
Now being serious, i know that a lot of trans people are not into this type of persecution rethoric, and i understeand why they should be protected from violence because they are a group that suffers a lot of violence.
But this type of rethoric is just asking for negative reactions from people at the very least, and theres a lot of people both trans and not trans that are on board with the reverse gatekeeping and makes the whole thing harder to defend.
Kind of like how Republicans who aren’t filthy rich like to claim they’re “Libertarians.” No, you just don’t like be called an asshole for being an asshole. You ain’t fooling anybody.
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