I do have to laugh at the zealots as they do pick and choose what bits of the bible they live their lives by. It’s almost as if they heard someone else say something and took it as gospel without doing their own research.
I have picked up a copy of the bible, with the aim of understanding it to be able to have an informed discussion on religious arguments.
Good luck. I did Catholic school from kindergarten all the way through high school with ‘religion’ classes every semester. I wouldn’t say my knowledge of the Bible is encyclopedic, but I do think it’s better than the average Christian. The more I learned of the Bible, the more I hated Christianity but not really because of what was in the Bible. The Old Testament is on another level, but most modern Christians claim to forgo that part in favor of the New Testament and Jesus’s teachings. The biblical representation of Jesus was an awesome dude, and he would despise what the Catholic church has become. He’d be all up in those mega churches whipping people left and right lol.
However, my main point in this comment is to say good luck, because the people you will be arguing against will be much less informed than you are but will believe they know everything and they WILL NOT argue with you in good faith.
It’s difficult to have a discussion. Since the bible is contradictory they can always find something to wiggle around. You are trying to combat a deadly combo of little education, low intelligence, and proud ignorance. You don’t have a chance
The real play is to dismiss it as the book of fiction it is, and as an adult I refuse to live by laws created from fan fic
The bible is clearly not a single book, it’s a collection of writings by different authors hundreds of years apart. Of course it’s contradictory. Also, not everything in there is equal in terms of importance. The 10 commandments are pretty high up there in terms of importance, but even they were supplanted by the teachings of Jesus (which can be summarized as “love one another”).
Bigots usually find their justification in Leviticus, which is a minor book explaining rules for the Hebrew society in like 1000 BC. That’s the only place where homosexuality is mentioned, for example. But then, it also says women in their period have to sleep in a separate tent.
Anyway, if you research it properly, you’ll see that stuff like hating gays is actually a worse sin than being gay. I haven’t researched abortion specifically, but even if you consider it a sin, all the hate around it is a worse sin anyway. Jesus said that heaven is happier with a sinner who repents than with someone who never sinned anyway.
I’m not really religious, but I was raised in a religious family that actually follows that philosophy (love one another).
In various parts of the bible, unborn children range from being an object owned by the father to which any damage to the goods must be repaid with currency; to God himself aborting them.
Women in the US (and elsewhere!) have gotten really tired of being treated like objects. The abortion is murder bullshit doesn’t take at all into account the selectivity of the human pregnancy process or that criminalizing abortions doesn’t reduce abortions. Though it will reduce safe abortions and it will feed more people into the US prison industrial complex. Already the US has more inmates than any other nation in the world, either total or per capita. Including China and the DPRK.
Announcing on this thread that you believe abortion is murder (even implicitly) is a fast track to getting blocked by me. You don’t want to be in my feed? Now’s your chance!
I don’t expect to change your mind. Here in the states, the government is already challenging a woman’s bodily autonomy. They’re already second class citizens.
If you like kids, and think there should be more of them in the States, then push for free school lunches.
Push for shorter hours and better wages for workers (my parents were tired and unavailable for my entire life, and this absolutely figures into my lifelong major depression).
Push for healthcare for children.
Push for living salaries and proper supplies for teachers.
Push for teaching curricula that will prepare kids to lead in redefining society for themselves, rather than shoving them into a worker or soldier die to be used, broken and expended for some billionaire’s vanity project. Demonstrate that an unborn baby is more to you than the next broken Amazon warehouse worker.
Push for getting law enforcement violence out of schools. Demonstrate that an unborn black kid is more to you than the next convict forced to work for their time (prison slavery, which is still legal in the US) denied any other opportunity except below-subsistence work…as an Amazon warehouse worker.
Push for fucking crisis response to the climate crisis and the plastic crisis. Pretend that you actually care there will be future generations wondering what the fuck you were doing.
Until you care about actual kids and the adults who might raise them, then I figure you really don’t give any fucks about unborn life either, except as a means to virtue signal your white Christian national brethren, or worse you’re a capitalist who only cares about infants as product, and then people as factory machines in the production line. Human capital.
Maybe this will make people think twice about getting pregnant.
Are you implying that women have to be held responsible for their actions? What a bold and sexist argument! It's easy to evidence it by reversing the genders, can you imagine men being forced to support their children and being held responsible for choosing to have sex? Oh wait, that's right, but it's not like they are forced (prioritizing the mother's whim to raise) even if they are not able to do it or has been raped by the mother... oh wait, that happens too.
Speaking a bit more seriously I would like to add (since I am sure that many people have not read the news), that the young woman caused the abortion at 23 weeks when there is already a (slim) reasonable viability, and that she had a choice to do it legally until 20 weeks. Also and going back to sexism, that fathers have so few rights that (without a marriage) they can't even keep their children if the mother chooses to give them up for adoption.
I never said that Republicans care about life. Just that abortion is wrong. Pro-life means caring for someone their entire life, including after birth and all the way until death.
If murder is illegal, why do you support it? The women dying in childbirth are U.S. citizens, their unborn children are not. That’s way closer to murder than abortion, homie. I would also love to see your defense for why victims of rape need to carry an abuser’s child to term, but I’m sure you never thought that far because your logic stopped at “durr just don’t get pregnant!” If only your kind wasn’t also incredibly opposed to birth control, as well.
The fact that you can’t see how vile and threatening your statement is tells us all we need to know about you anti-abortion monsters and why we need to re-legalize the practice.
Celeste’s purportedly private, self-managed abortion—conducted outside of the healthcare system—was suddenly public and criminal because a close friend betrayed her trust.
Sumer the snitch is a real bitch. Your friend trusted your and you betrayed her. Just because it’s"the law" doesn’t make it right. I don’t snitch on my pot plug.
For fresh babies yeah. But what about all the other kids that need care. Who come from homes where they weren’t wanted and blamed for ruining their parents lives (falsity of the statement notwithstanding) and now are in foster care past their best by date and have scars from the home that was forced to have them. You helping to take care of them?
That’s a bad argument, here’s what I use, and I wear a “Jesus is Pro-choice” shirt:
if God gave Adam the choice to kill 110 billion unborn people(and also an absurd number of ‘unborn babies’) then do you think you’re better than God?
What right do you have to stop someone from making a choice God let Adam take?
From there they usually take a “so do you think we shouldn’t prosecute crimes? God made killing against the 10 commandments” stance etc etc you just need to keep going back to God doesn’t stop anyone from sinning(imo it’s still a sin but for reasons(not killing babies) that don’t matter as it’s irrelevant to being Pro-choice) so you shouldn’t either.
Any discussion of making something legal or illegal is solely on the state. It shuts up anyone who is engaging in bad faith, like our commentor above.
more than 93.1% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation; a smaller number of abortions (5.8%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and even fewer (0.9%) were performed at ≥21 weeks’ gestation.
So, 93.1% aren’t even fetuses yet, they are zygotes (which is a clump of cells)
the other 6.9% are fetuses not babies.
A baby is a non-clinical term for an “infant” (def: a very young child under the age of 1 years old) that has bodily autonomy separate from the mother.
Nop, the red neck states are forcing women to get a child they don’t want.
It’s pretty simple in the civilized world, when you don’t want an abortion, don’t get one. Don’t think you can decide over other peoples medical procedures.
Alas, the US has left the civilized section of the world due to a loud-mouth that has some court appointments. Russia already left when Putin came to power, Israel is following, Hungary and Poland are on the same route (or already out, no clue on their state) As a species we’re doomed when we don’t watch out.
Climate collapse and the financial instability it causes is driving the rise of fascism around the world. Capitalist governments typically become authoritarian when their economies collapse, so we can expect to see much, MUCH worse shit down the road. Unless the Democrats win in a landslide in 2024, and who knows if that’s even possible anymore with the blatant regulatory capture hate groups have engaged in in all levels of government.
The biggest problem is that we, as humans, are fed all kind of nonsense to induce polarization. All news we hear is that it’s either black or white, capitalist or communist, Republican or Democrat. The biggest issue is the 2 points of vew most people see.
It even goes so far that in countries with a limited democracy (2 party system) a lot just refuse to see the other point of view, vote for ‘their party’ as the other is worse in their opinion,… (choose for the less bad one instead of a mninor one you really support, just to keep ‘the other’ from winning) For example, in the US the news is never independent, you either get a pro Republican or pro Democratic point of view. Social media keeps people even more in their bubble, so it’s even more ‘us against them’. Most forget that a good working democratic system can’t exist with only 2 points of view, you need at least 3.
Why do I say you need at least 3, as that way not a single, one-sided view, can dictate what is the truth. With a 3 way perspective, all will need to talk to each other to discover what is the real situation. That’s why the 3D world is useful as well. As we have history and science, I’d say we even need a 4th dimension to consider as well, time. What is good now may prove a bad idea for later generations and what seems bad now may be ideal later.
But alas, as long we we are fed the idea that either capitalism is good and communism is bad (or the other way around) and ignore a go between like say a liberal system with a socialistic base we’ll keep this mess. (same like the 2 party systems in US ans roughly in the UK) Same about ‘west vs china’.
Ok, the Dutch political system is broken up way to much. The last election in 2021, 37 parties were on the ballot of the 89 wanting to register) and we have a more fragmented set now (next election 22 november), but they are working together, as they need to. (even the biggest minority has to work together to get at least a few points of their program supported) That’s a result of 3 major parties each not being big enough to rule with only 1 of the others, so they either had to work together with each other (all 3) or find support from smaller parties, so the most extremist ideas (religion based state, denying abortion, closure of borders for refugees,…) were kept in check.
Between extreme left or extreme right views (which are pretty similar), there are loads of moderate views as well that need to be heard and could prove a a lot more beneficial to humanity then just one of the extremes.
Source images: imugr, I just downloaded them to scale the 2D version down.
Edit: to get back on topic, there was a comic I just can’t find that shows the biggest discrepancy of the anti-abortion movement. When unborn ‘All life is sacred’, but after birth, it’s ‘you’re on your own’. Unless a community doesn’t want to solve the latter (make sure everybody can have a good and healthy life, they have no say what so ever in the 1st matter. (and even if they do solve the latter, it’s still that way) Alas there are to many people that force their view upon others. (and no, pro choice doesn’t mean you have to have an abortion, they just state that it’s your choice, not somebody else’s)
AFAIK We don’t have clones yet. Not viable ones, at any rate. When we do, it’ll open up a whole new jar of ethical problems. I’m sure Bezos, Musk and Zuckerberg would each love to have a minime to inherit their respective empires.
This is one very good example why strong and secure encrypted communication apps should be the default. You should not have to be at the mercy of fb in order to talk to your mom about personal and private matters. It may not have mattered too much in this particular case as the tip came from a judas but it no doubt does, or will, in others going forward.
Not to mention that abortion is medically indistinguishable from miscarriage, if they didnt talk or act with intent to perform an abortion would anyone have noticed in the first place?
Edit: right, just noticed the sub this was posted on. y’all already know.
You’ve got a point. Using /s has nearly the same effect as explaining the joke which is guaranteed to deflate the fun of making the comment in the first place.
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