Enterprise was done dirty. They should have been allowed at least one more series to deal with the romulans. It was just starting to get good.
Sure the character of Jonathan Archer was a complete idiot who shouldn’t have been allowed in charge of a light switch. But that kind of makes sense because it was only given the job because of who his dad was rather than because he had any skills. No human knew what they were doing at that point in time because no human had really had any interaction with any alien species yet except the Vulcans.
I like how corny it is, it fits the “pioneers on an exploratory mission” perfectly. Having a bombastic orchestral theme pre-federation makes no sense, the first Enterprise is a sitting duck for just about any starfaring culture, they got boarded by the Ferengi one time, ffs.
There’s a pretty big difference between “this movie is the worst one, but ‘Hutt Slayer Leia’ tho” and “This guy doesn’t understand the Force, the Jedi, the previous movie, that space is frictionless, that a squadron for a capital ship is a good trade, or the technology of the series and the reasons for the limitations on it. Oh, and also he pussed out of ReyxFinn, a plan confirmed by previous screenwriters and novelists, so he could shove in Finn being molested by a stalker?!?”
I can keep going
But I won’t, because I am a big boy who can emotionally handle that some people apparently didn’t understand the themes of a series derided for destroying complexity in cinema.
Well. This kind of proves Granites original point. Also demonstrates precisely why I stopped posting in the Star Wars community. Just so constantly and exhaustingly negative all the time.
Star Wars fandom has been hostile and bitter at one another since at least the prequels. When those were released things turned, hard, and they never came back. When the sequels were released people swarmed those and have been hyper negative ever since.
Things were ALWAYS bad in Star Wars, they just got a thousand times worse with Force Awakens. It’s pretty disingenuous to try and pretend like none of that ever happened.
Oh it’s absolutely an age thing. Star Wars has always been geared for a younger audience. George Lucas even has an interview where he says “I’ll get in trouble for saying this but Star Wars is for kids”. The prequels really tested this. They’re not super great movies to begin with but they were a significant tonal shift from the Original trilogy. I shit thee not on this but all the animosity the Sequels get? The exact same level of energy and anger that the Prequels got. That only started phasing out once Force Awakens came out. Suddenly everyone loves the whole prequels. Star Trek has similar arguments (see Discovery or TNG when it launched. Or DS9 when it launched. Or Voyager. Etc.) but they aren’t as loud about it as Star Wars can be.
I’ll echo Stamet’s statements (heh). The vitriol for the sequels, if anything, is softer in a lot of ways than it was for the sequels.
Jake Lloyd was massively bullied (by classmates and fans) to the point he wanted nothing to do with any of it. Ahmed Best has been pretty open about considering suicide. Hayden Christensen got a lot of hate as well. It’s hard to find raw things from the era unless you happen to know forum links and such. The article below makes it seem a lot smoother but I think the quoted bit helps a little.
[In his home], he has a series of large metal letters that spell out a motto: ILLEGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM. “It was a saying among soldiers in World War II,” he explains. “It means ‘Don’t let the bastards get you down.’”
As far as RotJ it’s hard to understand how much the die hard fans hated the Ewoks now. Imagine the criticisms you raised above being focused onto a single portion of one movie. The anger I’ve seen over Canto Bight being unnecessary doesn’t even touch it.
It’s absolutely an age thing and I’m confident the sequels in twenty years will be largely as received as the prequels are now and you can have this side of the conversation with some young fan upset with the new thing that’s ruining all of it.
I really liked it when the show first started. I thought the divergence from the regular formula at the time was a nice change. The theme of the song was also on point for the theme of the show - humanity coming into their own on the galactic stage. I'm in the middle of my first rewatch since the show first aired. I still like it. As for adding a base line to it in season 3....WTF?
Yeah their decision to add that baseline is insane… There’s another version that’s got a heavier string section as well as a few other alterations. It’s my preferred version of the song because it sounds less rock. This being that version.
The most insane thing about it is not the music, it’s the collage of space race scenes that shows NASA crap, from the country that lost the space race.
Yeah, the Berman-level horny is what put me off in all honesty. I’m not the type of gay who is going to be immediately freak out by seeing a woman undressed or anything. Even when focusing on any of the male characters I still just felt weird. Also the absurd level of blue on everything. Genuinely forgot how saturated that was, holy shit!
Like if someone wants to put in sexual stuff to make something sell, sure. I might not like it but I’ll get it. But those decon scenes were really really forced. At least with Seven of Nine it ended mostly with her obscene skinsuit. But these scenes were just too heavy handed for me to enjoy and felt a lil gross. Not enough for it to make me dislike the show but enough to be memorable.
Weird I really didn’t remember them. But now I’m like oh yeah I was very uncomfortable. Unfortunately as a women star trek fan there are a fair bit of content I have to just forget or be like its wrong but sadly a product of that time. Lucky there are a lot of women positive content in the series too. Which I think is a bigger chunk then the problems.
I dig it. I hate it as a Star Trek theme, don’t get me wrong, but I still think it’s a fun song. The fact that they’ve tacked it onto Star Trek means that it’s part of it now so screw it. Might as well enjoy it.
And what would be so bad if I got you wrong? Do you think that Star Trek fans that enjoy Faith of the Heart and find it to be a good Star Trek theme are not proper Star Trek fans? Because it has to conform to your, and the apparent “majority’s”, elitist view that orchestral intro music is inherently superior, and you think that should you oppose this sentiment, you get branded as a traitor and are evicted from this community or what? What is so bad with liking Faith of the Heart as a Star Trek song??? People have different tastes, and no one on this instance has any authority in the slightest to decide such matters.
You are going to need to back off with this level of hostility.
Do you think that Star Trek fans that enjoy Faith of the Heart and find it to be a good Star Trek theme are not proper Star Trek fans?
I never at any point suggested or even remotely hinted towards that and I’d really appreciate you not shoving words into my mouth.
Because it has to conform to your, and the apparent “majority’s”, elitist view that orchestral intro music is inherently superior, and you think that should you oppose this sentiment, you get branded as a traitor and are evicted from this community or what?
I never at any point suggested or even remotely hinted towards that and I’d really appreciate you not shoving words into my mouth.
What is so bad with liking Faith of the Heart as a Star Trek song???
Literally nothing. I simply said I don’t like it as a Star Trek song. At no point did I suggest that there was anything wrong with liking it as a Star Trek song. I merely expressed my own personal opinion.
People have different tastes, and no one on this instance has any authority in the slightest to decide such matters.
No one here remotely attempted to.
You need to seriously take a step back and start reading what people say instead of making stuff up between the lines of what people say. If you want clarification then ask for it. But no one here said that there was anything wrong with a Star Trek fan who likes this song. I’m sure as hell not going to say who is and isn’t a real Star Trek fan when I get given shit for merely liking Discovery. All I did was express a differing opinion. That’s it. I’m not going to engage further if you keep up this incredibly defensive/hostile attitude.
I want to say I never quite learned to like it, but... I have once or twice maybe hummed along a little. Honestly not much, and the completely unenunciated "isbinna laaooww waaaww" (maybe slightly exaggerating there) bit still irks me but... yeah okay some of it is a lil catchy >.<;
I'm one of those non-USA-types and I actually liked Archerprise. Not as much as the other series of course, but I'll still watch it every now and then.
Yeah as an Aussie, faith of the heart comes across as some cringe American power ballad bullshit.
It’s such an insane genre shift from Trek of that era as well. Like how do you have 3 of the most incredible, majestic, orchestral themes from TNG, DS9, and VOY, and decide that what Trek really needs is a Rod Stewart song? It’s bizarre.
I’m not going to lie, I find this genuinely hilarious.
So the song was originally written by an American named Diane Warren but that’s where the connection to the United States ends. It was originally written for Rod Stewart, an English artist. The Enterprise version however is performed by Russell Watson. An English artist.
Bahaha fair call mate! The other artist who came to mind was Bryan Adams, who it turns out is Canadian so clearly I’m completely full of shit.
Logic and reason aside… Idk it just feels like American fluff to me. To be clear, I don’t mean to hate on American culture with that statement. Every culture has its own vapid, meaningless fluff. God knows Australian culture does!
Regardless of who sang it or wrote it, something about faith of the heart just feels really, really American to me. Obviously Trek has always been an American show, but it has always seemed to make an effort to be more universal than that. I still remember hearing faith of the heart for the first time and it just felt… foreign. Unrelatable.
And personally I just hate power ballads so that’s my own bias haha. My whole argument is vibes and opinions really, I make zero claim to being correct or even internally consistent on this.
Don’t feel bad, your instincts are on point. It’s some apple pie baseball chevy truck american anthem at the stadium bullshit. It’s so american it hurts and Im from the southern US lol
Also southish US; I think your take on how it sounds is why I always hated it so much. That and the unintelligible bit at the beginning. never going to forgive it and its obnoxious mind-sticking law waw
Oh don’t get me wrong, i’m not bashing you with that comment. There’s a reason I removed the ‘the call is coming from inside the house’ line. I was doing it in jest and light-hearted banter but you never know how text can come across so I wanted to be safer than sorry.
It does feel pretty American though. I get it. The vibe is definitely there. The song just screams “PATRIOTISM” in a way that is pretty in line with America. Has that whole “I’M THE VERY BEST WE’RE NUMBER 1 NO ONE CAN STOP US” theme throughout it.
I listen to jazz and pop so I mean I’m not exactly someone who is a huge fan of ballads either. Right with you. This song I do like but mostly just for nostalgia purposes I think. The same way I start singing along with Rick Astley whenever Never Gonna Give You Up starts playing.
However, as a Canadian, how fucking dare you mistake Bryan Adams for an American. Awful. Mean. Terrible! Cruel! We can’t be friends.
I have absolutely no idea. Frankly that’s one of the most bizarre takes I’ve seen in sometime. As you pointed out, the theme is relentlessly mocked in the US. By all Trek fans in general, really. Why someone would immediately make this a nationalistic thing I have no idea.
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